Why ISIS resembles a cult

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 20:46

In my opinion there are many reasons why people support IS

This includes:

Outrage about the suffering taking place in the Ummah today, particularly in Iraq and Sham and feel that IS are the solution to this.

The establishment of a Khilafah is the aspiration of all Muslims - a pure Islamic state legislated by the word of Allah SWT, a sanctuary for all Muslims

However, its supporters appear for the most appear to be carried away with their romanticism and do not notice that reality is not what they hope it to be.
They think that just because it calls itself Khilafah - that it just is one. They are also overly willing to ignore and overlook all excesses and deviations by the group simply because it calls itself Khilafah. The only important thing is that it claims to be Khilafah - nothing else matters except the title.

There also seems to me to be a bit of a cult arrangement going on. I have studied cults at length, including the Aum Shinrikyo group, Jim Jones, Scientology and others, and there are several parallels with IS.

The reverence of the leader

The difference between cults and religions is that cults are all about the leader - usually a living human that has afforded him/herself divinity and demands absolute obedience. Often followers are willing to kill and die for this leader and will accept anything they say, regardless of how illogical or unorthodox it is.

IS is all about al-Baghdadi. Several editions of Dabiq magazine, including the latest one have demanded obedience to him, under threat of going to Jahanam if one does not give bay'ah to him. Essentially, he is the gatekeeper to Jannah - one may only enter through him. This is classic cult leader mentality.

Baghdadi acts in a similar way to cult leaders in so far as that he is hidden all the time. The only images we have of him are from one speech he gave after the establishment of his Khilafah and some mugshots. This has given him a kind of mystical aura which is perhaps captivating to some people. What do we actually really know about him? Why does he remain hidden all the time? Even Zawahiri, who is always in hiding, is able to show his face and to give speeches, so why is the "emir al-Mu'meen" so allusive?

People are so enthralled by him that they are willing to kill and die for him and to serve him unconditionally and without question.

Unorthodoxy and deviance from the mainstream religious conventions

There are many Christian based cults and sects that can be loosely based on Christianity, yet deviate in major ways. A cult leader may claim that he is a prophet, or maybe even the reincarnation of Isa (AS) himself. He may also produce absolutely bizarre and unorthodox claims that him way outside the fold of Christianity. He and his associates will tell the followers that all other Christians are deviants, corrupted, misguided, sinful and destined to Hell and that only the followers of this cult and its leader follow the correct path and will achieve salvation.

The early Khawarij were a bit like this. They claimed that only they were on the Haqq and all other Muslims were murtadeen and should be killed. IS also have similar aspects of this mentality. They have claimed that Muslims that do not give bay'ah to Baghdadi can be fought for this reason alone. They claim that only they follow the correct manhaj and that they will sweep way all others that do not believe as they do like the flood of Nuh (AS). They throw takfir around all over the place and easily kill those they consider "murtadeen". All of the mainstream scholars oppose them and have denounced them as being deviants. Nevertheless IS consider that they are correct and that all of the ulema are deviants, just like Christian cults that claim themselves to be the only saved sect - even if all others write them off.

Deviant and extreme beliefs

Furthermore, the group follow dubious opinions, including that killing civilians from non-Muslim countries is permissible and that there is no difference in ruling between killing combatant and non-combatant. This is false, Islam prohibits killing civilians and no one has ever proved it is permissible form Islam - killing innocents so constitutes murder, a very serious sin.

They also missaply the principle of qisas (equal retribution). What ISIS supporters will never be able to answer is why Jordanian pilot Moath al-Kesesbeh deserved being burned alive due to killing Muslim civilians (unintentionally through collateral damage), IS members are not similarly accountable for the many Muslims killed during their bombing campaigns in markets and with the Amman hotel bombings where many dozens of Muslim civilians were slaughtered, including a wedding procession.

Attempt to separate followers from their families

Another major difference between cults and religions is the treatment of parents. Islam teaches us to respect our parents, even if they are non-Muslims. Cults try to encourage their followers to abandon their families and friends, claiming them to be hostile and sources of corruption.

IS actively encourage their members to defy their families and to abandon them. Girls are enrouaged to emigrate without permission of her wali, and it is then claimed that fighters of even Baghdadi himself is the wali. In the sixth edition of Dabiq, it even tells readers to defy their parents if they discourage them from going to fight for IS, claiming them to be enemies of Islam. This statement basically encourages kids to make takfir of their parents. This is something unusual in Islam

Brainwashed members who are impossible to reason with

Cult members are typically absolutely fanatically and unreservedly devoted to their group. They refuse to accept any argument against the group, no matter how well grounded in reason and logic it is. It is extremely difficult to reach out to those that have been indoctrinated into a cult. There is a special process called "deprogramming" for this purpose. I have noticed the same brainwashed mentality among some IS supporters. Cults clearly have a powerful effect on the psychology of their followers. Even long after the exposure and death of the leaders, their followers often continue to revere them many years later.

Then again I maintain an open mind and welcome anyone to dispute what I say.
I do encourage people to do a bit of research of cults and see if they do perhaps spot some similarities.

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Abu Sultaan

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 20:49

Somehow the message didn't all appear... so here is the full version:

In my opinion there are many reasons why people support IS

This includes:

Outrage about the suffering taking place in the Ummah today, particularly in Iraq and Sham and feel that IS are the solution to this.

The establishment of a Khilafah is the aspiration of all Muslims - a pure Islamic state legislated by the word of Allah SWT, a sanctuary for all Muslims

However, its supporters appear for the most appear to be carried away with their romanticism and do not notice that reality is not what they hope it to be.
They think that just because it calls itself Khilafah - that it just is one. They are also overly willing to ignore and overlook all excesses and deviations by the group simply because it calls itself Khilafah. The only important thing is that it claims to be Khilafah - nothing else matters except the title.

There also seems to me to be a bit of a cult arrangement going on. I have studied cults at length, including the Aum Shinrikyo group, Jim Jones, Scientology and others, and there are several parallels with IS.

The reverence of the leader

The difference between cults and religions is that cults are all about the leader - usually a living human that has afforded him/herself divinity and demands absolute obedience. Often followers are willing to kill and die for this leader and will accept anything they say, regardless of how illogical or unorthodox it is.

IS is all about al-Baghdadi. Several editions of Dabiq magazine, including the latest one have demanded obedience to him, under threat of going to Jahanam if one does not give bay'ah to him. Essentially, he is the gatekeeper to Jannah - one may only enter through him. This is classic cult leader mentality.

Baghdadi acts in a similar way to cult leaders in so far as that he is hidden all the time. The only images we have of him are from one speech he gave after the establishment of his Khilafah and some mugshots. This has given him a kind of mystical aura which is perhaps captivating to some people. What do we actually really know about him? Why does he remain hidden all the time? Even Zawahiri, who is always in hiding, is able to show his face and to give speeches, so why is the "emir al-Mu'meen" so allusive?

People are so enthralled by him that they are willing to kill and die for him and to serve him unconditionally and without question.

Unorthodoxy and deviance from the mainstream religious conventions

There are many Christian based cults and sects that can be loosely based on Christianity, yet deviate in major ways. A cult leader may claim that he is a prophet, or maybe even the reincarnation of Isa (AS) himself. He may also produce absolutely bizarre and unorthodox claims that him way outside the fold of Christianity. He and his associates will tell the followers that all other Christians are deviants, corrupted, misguided, sinful and destined to Hell and that only the followers of this cult and its leader follow the correct path and will achieve salvation.

The early Khawarij were a bit like this. They claimed that only they were on the Haqq and all other Muslims were murtadeen and should be killed. IS also have similar aspects of this mentality. They have claimed that Muslims that do not give bay'ah to Baghdadi can be fought for this reason alone. They claim that only they follow the correct manhaj and that they will sweep way all others that do not believe as they do like the flood of Nuh (AS). They throw takfir around all over the place and easily kill those they consider "murtadeen". All of the mainstream scholars oppose them and have denounced them as being deviants. Nevertheless IS consider that they are correct and that all of the ulema are deviants, just like Christian cults that claim themselves to be the only saved sect - even if all others write them off.

Deviant and extreme beliefs

Furthermore, the group follow dubious opinions, including that killing civilians from non-Muslim countries is permissible and that there is no difference in ruling between killing combatant and non-combatant. This is false, Islam prohibits killing civilians and no one has ever proved it is permissible form Islam - killing innocents so constitutes murder, a very serious sin.

They also missaply the principle of qisas (equal retribution). What ISIS supporters will never be able to answer is why Jordanian pilot Moath al-Kesesbeh deserved being burned alive due to killing Muslim civilians (unintentionally through collateral damage), IS members are not similarly accountable for the many Muslims killed during their bombing campaigns in markets and with the Amman hotel bombings where many dozens of Muslim civilians were slaughtered, including a wedding procession.

Attempt to separate followers from their families

Another major difference between cults and religions is the treatment of parents. Islam teaches us to respect our parents, even if they are non-Muslims. Cults try to encourage their followers to abandon their families and friends, claiming them to be hostile and sources of corruption.

IS actively encourage their members to defy their families and to abandon them. Girls are enrouaged to emigrate without permission of her wali, and it is then claimed that fighters of even Baghdadi himself is the wali. In the sixth edition of Dabiq, it even tells readers to defy their parents if they discourage them from going to fight for IS, claiming them to be enemies of Islam. This statement basically encourages kids to make takfir of their parents. This is something unusual in Islam

Brainwashed members who are impossible to reason with

Cult members are typically absolutely fanatically and unreservedly devoted to their group. They refuse to accept any argument against the group, no matter how well grounded in reason and logic it is. It is extremely difficult to reach out to those that have been indoctrinated into a cult. There is a special process called "deprogramming" for this purpose. I have noticed the same brainwashed mentality among some IS supporters. Cults clearly have a powerful effect on the psychology of their followers. Even long after the exposure and death of the leaders, their followers often continue to revere them many years later.

Then again I maintain an open mind and welcome anyone to dispute what I say.
I do encourage people to do a bit of research of cults and see if they do perhaps spot some similarities.

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Abu Sultaan

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 22:25

Salam brother

Welcome to the forum

No one supports un-Islamic state here brother whatsoever, in fact many members here consider them khwarij.

Also I don't believe there is much support for them whatsoever especially the way the media portrays it, just a load of garbage. The support they do have is from deluded hot headed youth who have no clue about anything and if you speak to fan boys you'll realise how retarded they actually are and often can't prove nothing when you ask them to bring proofs from the Islamic texts. The people who allied with them in Iraq had no choice but to ally with them and that doesn't necessarily mean they agree with them, before they were being killed like dogs by the Rafidhis and the govt backed by Iran. They took full use of the power vacuum in Iraq, in Syria they fight other mujahideen and backstab them and make open takfeer on anyone who disagrees with them on the slightest of issue. They have also been absent from the main fight which is against Assad, but no they'd rather go and fight some Kurds and Christians and take some yazidi slaves.

Also if you live in the west and this is advice for others too, don't be downloading their magazines or any other such material, this constitues an offence and is illegal and it won't be hard for them to charge you with some kind of supposedly terrorism charge and make an example out of you, plus there getting retarded day by day , caution goes a long way.

Here's some more threads on this topic...

www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/10051-senior-u...

www.muftisays.com/forums/55-members-research-group/9656-w...

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Abdullah bin Mubarak

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2015 22:36

The only place online where I have found people supporting them is Ummah forum.

However be careful, look the other day one of the biggest supporters of isis on Twitter was arrested, turns out he was a Jew from Australia.

Can't find the link right now.

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Abdullah bin Mubarak

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 26th September 2015 12:08

salaam

im not sure about the cult theory or anything, reason why people flock to ISIS is because they have filled a void. whether you like or not and want to live in denial fact is the entire ummah and by far neglected the concept of khilaafah, when have you ever heard deobandi ulema talk about it? go most jummah talks they talk about stupid trival matters nothing about current affairs or anything. were not living in 18th century india where information is scarce. muslims are seeing whats going on and want answers and direction, if scholars wont give then they will end up following the likes of anjem choudary as he is vocal and addresses issues which are close to Muslims.

merely criticizing isis will not put these youth off from joining them as they got the idea in their head only sell outs will speak against isis. the best and most effective way of convincing people that isis are bad is referring to shaykh abu qatadah (ha) and shaykh maqdisi (ha) who are both senior scholars and unlike deobandi scholars they have dedicated their lives to field of jihad and are well respected.

finally as brother above just mentioned no one on this forum actually supports IS so best to post that message on other forums where u have IS fanboys. one thing i will say is dont let our feelings cloud our judgment, although we disagree and do not approve of isis alot of stuff about this is false ( what is said on non muslim news) and i even heard muslims critising them for things which are not even haram such as destroying old temples and statues. walah this only makes us look stupid and strengthens the arguments of isis and their supports

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 27th September 2015 10:52

mkdon101 wrote:

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I once heard Shaykh Riyadhul Haq say that the mimbar was not the News stand, it is for the glorification of Allah.

If we want news, there's other ways of getting it. So to blame Ulama for not breaking news on the mimbar is not entirely fair. Yes they do hold lectures and educate the masses like that as seen in one of the threads linked above.

Another thing, we've heard of families and individuals going out there and now they've realized how wrong they were and calling Isis, non Muslim. They are now on a mission to get out simply to get imprisoned here.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 27th September 2015 11:45

abu mohammed wrote:

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let me make clear again incase i wasnt clear before. I DONT SUPPORT UNISLAMIC STATE. i was saying they have filled a void. as for mimbar not being a newstand i dont know about that. iv always been told rasoolullah (saw)

and sahabah mentioned current affairs. and if they didnt its we still should. times have changed now. we all have access to tv internet and instant news.if scholars and the learned wont discuss burning issues the layman will turn to the ignorant.

every true muslim desires the return of the khilfah. isis have hijacked that term and given false hope to muslims that the great days are not back.

on a side note. what makes a khalifa legit? being a pious and good khlifah is not a coniditon is it? as in our hisotry we have had a few nut jobs. is there anything in fiqhi terms that nullifys isis? what are the conditions of being a khilfah? being qureshi? ruling the hijaz? having majority support from ummah?

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 27th September 2015 13:02

mkdon101 wrote:

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Sounds like an emotionally charged post

My brother what void? If there was an actual void then millions would be flocking to give their pledges, in fact we have Muslims running away from them, risking their lives by land and on water to get away from them and Assad.

Secondly if you don't know that the khilafa is unvalid and why then you don't even know the basics yet, I've posted links above which contains talks do listen to it, especially the talks by the South African Ulema.

For a Khilafa to be valid certain rules apply , 2 conditions need to be met, Shura and Ulema, there's was no Shura to do mashwera and no ulema to vouch for this man who calls himself Baghdadi, the only scholar so far whom I've seen supporting him is shaykh Faisal for Barbardos and the fan boys love him, he's got some nutty views too and will declare you a kafir for denying the khwarij state and not pledging and will declare your wife haram on you. This khilafa is nothing but a sham, invalid. See above links for further details. This is nothing but an un-Islamic state that follows it's whims and desires rather than shariah and people are trying to escape them.

The void they filled or tried, was an utter complete failure, the only support they have is from retarded ignorant hot headed foreign youth. No elders are in their jamaat, no ulema. People are running away from them, many who go also see the error of their ways and try to join other factions or come back and there have been such cases where members even faked their own deaths, did they still fill a void, when Assad still sits in Damascus and all these guys do is backstab other fighters and are absent from the main battle? People are running from them? I don't see no void here being filled? Shaykh Maqdisi and shaykh abu Qatada also have been mentioned above in the link provided and other ulema too from across the globe.

Criticising them for blowing up temples makes us look stupid does it? Brother this sounds like another emotional rant. When Salahudeen Ayyubi rahimullah conquered Al Aqsa/Quds, there's a church/temple there that Muslims suggested to him to destroy with the reason that this is what the kuffar fight for and as thousands and thousands lives have been lost let's destroy it l, they will be no fight again. Some ulema of the time even vouched support for it (there's a few opinions here actually in Islamic jurisprudence), however Salahudeen refused and he said how can I when a man greater than I didn't carry out this act, the man he was referring to was umar bin khattab رضي الله عنه this is fiqh and this is where ulema come in, un-Islamic state doesn't need it and neither follows it.

In regards to ulema Deoband, I think that's unfair of what you just said, my brother go read history, go listen to Maulana Esa Mansoori on YouTube, ulema (akabireen of Deoband) actually tried to revive and bring back the khilafa, they even had talks with the Saudi king of the time and we're willing to give bayah to him, he refused.

Khilafa efforts for revival were also tried again, mureeds of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi rahimullah wanted to make him Khalifa over a certain area, he rejected it, he said if tomorrow I make an announcement that all Muslims in the vicinity of this area, I want them to bring half their wealths and leave it here, how many will actually comply?

Islam has been tried to be wiped, many efforts are being made against it in various forms, right now the effort of the times are the grass roots efforts, people don't know the shahada and how to do wudhu, how many actually pray 5 regular Salah daily, one mufti said if this only can be achieved in this day and age then that itself is a big thing, and that's what ulema are actually engaging in (grass root efforts) other wise we would see all ulema running towards hizbul tahrir and engaging in that but we don't. When people don't even understand Deen, love it, follow it, abide by it, when a valid khilafa does come they'll just reject it as they hardly know anything about Deen anyway.

So don't criticise the efforts of ulema from the Mumbai , if it weren't for these deobandi ulema and primarily the gujrati community there wouldn't be no other effort in this country today, and there are many efforts on going and working to bring people on deen, go ask people who know the state of Islam 25 years and what is now here is very different, so please be fair in your critique rather than it sounding like an emotional rant.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 28th September 2015 19:46

Abdullah bin Mubarak wrote:

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you just prove my point!!! all you was quote our akaabir. thats all deobandis have become bunch of pacafists who just live off the legacy of the great men who founded it. yes i am aware of their great efforts in trying to restore the khilfaah. cant remember which book i read it in but it mentioned how deobandis at the time called for a global conference in the 30s to try restore the califate but king abdul aziz wasnt interested as he knew he was just a puppet whos boundaries were defined by his british masters.

as for the void argument. which group or scholars espeically amongst the deobandis in the last 50 years or so have many any real effort or even spoke on the issue? none. alhamdulillah we had the taliban ( may Allah hasten their return to power) but barring that none. isis have now come along and given the glad news that they have established it a califate but as we all mentioned already its far from being islamic never mind a state. hnce why so many youths go their thinking it be a utopia state but soon realise what a joke and death cult it is

as for destroying idols and relics who cares? they have doen far worse such as killing mujaahideen, scholars, mass killings, mass takfir. ibrahim (as) broke idols, rasoolullah (saw)

smashed idols and so did the sahaba. its not a big issue for me if isis did it. its up to the leader of the place to decide what he wants done with it.

you mentione the lieks of salahudin رضي الله عنه didnt destroy them or earlier khalifs maybe werent even aware of its existance.. alot of these historical findings where discovered way afterwards, i just came back from cairo and saw the sphinx which is a huge structure, apparently they only jus found that in the last 100 years or less. it was coverd in sand and found by accident.

anyway i wont be commenting on this anymore as we all do agree one thing n that is isis are unislamic and khawarij. my arguement is unless traditonal and mainstream scholars being tackling issues which are buring in the hearts of the muslims we can only blame ourselfs if more misguided people join extreme groups or carry out extreme violends

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mkdon101

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 28th September 2015 20:34

Salam

I hold the akabireen of Deoband in high esteem and have tremendous amount of respect for them brother, but I'm not a 'deobandi' and neither a 'hazrat worshipper'.

Alhamdulilah

I'll leave it there for now.

Duas

Wasalam

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 28th September 2015 21:53

When Dajjal plays his chants, so many will follow, more than those of Baghdadi, so what should we do then? Follow the crowd? NO!

Alhumdulillah, although there is a small argument, the crux of the matter is that we don't like their ideology and version/interpretation of our religion

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 29th September 2015 04:41

ISIS is a western creation both directly as well as by implication and western frustration owing to them should neither make us defensive nor it should induce us to fight with each other. Let the west deal with them. In the meanwhile let us not ignore our problems with the west. They have heavily encroached upon our space and we should keep working on ways to regain our space from the west.

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Why ISIS resembles a cult

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