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Fitnah & Fassad facing Muslims in the West

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 11:38
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Asslamo Allaikum,

I believe that we have a difference set of challenges facing Muslims in the West, perhaps they have roots in the East but these challenges are morphed…So lets discuss this.

Challenge Number 1: Apsotasy

We have a growing numbers of Muslims who are becoming apostate OR are functional apostates i.e. don't really have Eemaan and just go through the motions.

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Challenge Number 2: YouTube Islam

We have a growing numbers of "Scholars" who are proficient in using Social Media and thus the laymen are attracted to them instead of the Ulama.

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Challenge Number 3: Links with Pakistani Ulama

Media is increasingly targetting Ulama and Institues with links to Pakistan, digging up old Bayans and books (i.e. Allamah Khalid Mahmood (HA)) etc.

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Personal Opinion: I DO NOT believe that disowning Pakistani Ulama en masse will solve the problem legally or politically but there are others who are advising our Ulama to disown "Pakistani Islam". However, I do believe that "Indian Islam" is more of a model for us because they are also minority like us.

Challenge Number 4: Women

Deobandees are traditional in nature and cannot come to terms with the role of women in Muslim society. We don't live in Pakistan so like it or not our women are out and about so how do we solve the issue of their involevement in Islam?

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Challenge Number 5: Current Affairs

I am directly involved with a lot of Ulama and it is clear that our Ulama (majority of them) neither care nor have any knowledge of current affairs. They also fail to foresee how it will (and is) impacting us.

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Challenge Number 6: National Involvement

I am directly involved with a lot of Ulama and it is clear that our Ulama (majority of them) neither care nor have any practical involvement in National issues. When they do talk about this it is generally conspirationalist (and as a result) so do most Deobandees

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?

Challenge Number 7: Communication with Ulama

Our Ulama don't seem to take the input of "specialists" in their fields who may be Non-Ulama.

  1. What are the reasons?
  2. How do we remedy the situation?
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 14:08
Okay to get the discussion moving forward I will start with Challenge (1) .... Although I think challenge one should be how can we get our religious elders to listen to ideas and suggestions put to them.

Challenge Number 1: Apsotasy

People do so for various reasons but generally speaking they fall into the following two categories, or a blend of both.

(1) Those who lack Love in their lives

These category of people are beset by personal problems in their lives, from financial issues, relationship issues, health issues etc.
Through their lack of knowledge , ignorance and self pity,they feel lonely and abandoned. They blame Islam and Muslims around them for their problems and claim that the deen has nothing to offer them in facing the challenges of life, except a set of harsh rules and regulations. You will find them making complaints such as, " In Islam everything is Haraam, Haraaam, Haraam," " I prayed and I prayed my prayers were not answered" "If your religion is not working for you then you should find one that does", " Were is the Love in Islam all you have is harshness."

(2) The second type are those who are in love with themselves.

These are individuals who are in Love with their own intelligence, in Love with their own success, In Love with their own wealth, in Love with their lifestyle.

They see Islam as being backward the Mullahs as being backward and devoid of understanding of the modern world science evolution etc. So you find saying things like "These Mullahs want people to live in the dark ages they do not know the first thing of science," "If Islam is a divine religion how come the muslim nations and peoples are the most backward in the world," "If Muslims want to succeed they need stop living in the middle ages and embrace the western culture and science".

They use various forms of Rationalism and Logic to denounce Islam as backward impractical and barbaric.

How Do We Remedy The Situation?

We need individuals who are trained in counselling skills understanding of human nature to gently and compassionately guide those who are overcome with Selfpity and despair.

We need individuals who are well versed in various aspects of science from chemistry, to physics, biology, and human sciences such as anthropology and sociology who can academically and intellectually challenge and refute the arguments of the Rationalists and evolutionists...! Many Ulemah for example have little understanding at the comlex and sophisticated arguments presented in the books on evolution , I read a post by a senior Mufti and elder about evolution which was something along the lines of "Look how silly these people how can they think their ancestors descended from apes", Well that is a counter to atheism and evolutionists that might have worked back in the 1950's but today they will laugh at you.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 14:27

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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What should be the central framework of a training program for our Ulama & leaders to deal with apostasy? Any recommendations?

Jzk

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 31st March 2016 17:51
What should be the central framework of a training program for our Ulama & leaders to deal with apostasy? Any recommendations?

Jzk


The decision to apostate is usually a personal one for the individual concerned each case is different but from reading some testimonies of both those who have apostated and those on the fringes the extreme "Progressive modernists", the under lying roots are despair and despondency.

Give a couple of examples, a muslim woman decides to apply for a particular political position the local muslim community opposed
her, including her own father deeply hurt by this she becomes a champion of Islamic Feminism, and argues that all the religious texts have been interpreted by men therefore those commentaries are by their very nature misogynist, and we need new interpretations done by female Scholars.

A young man, has an Asian father and a white mother, growing up going to a school in a muslim neighbourhood he is made to feel inferior, and is told his father is a traitor to the community for having married a white woman, he develops a deep hatred for muslims and Islam and becomes an atheist.

On the opposite end you have someone who grew up fairly comfortably has a good education and career, but starts to see Islam as an obstacle to human progress and enjoyment, becomes despondent at the lack of progress of muslims starts studying books on Atheism, evolution etc and becomes an apostate.

I think before developing a central framework in dealing with apostasy what we would need to do is to scientifically analyse it... the simplest way to do that is collect at-least a thousand testimonies of people who have become atheist, then identify the most common denominators between all of them. Then develop a framework on how to counter act those issues raised.

Conversely since we know that at the central root of apostasy lies "Despair", then we have to look at the agents of hope with in our own community and try to emulate them. In sports psychology there is a concept called 'modeling', it is based on the premise that if you want to get to the pinnacle of your chosen sport, then the shortest root is to emulate and inculcate the training methods and personal habits and discipline of an athlete who has already reached the pinnacle.

So what we need to do is look at the Muslim Scholars and Speakers, that are popular and look at the common denominators between each one of them, to name a few Mufti Menk, Nouman Ali Khan, Shaykh Dr Hussain Abdus Sattar,... What we find is that their talks are usually simple, even complex issues are explained simple manner the solutions offered to problems are practical and inspiring. They make the youth that follow them feel proud of their deen the central theme is "Hope and Positivity" . So we need to analyse these common denominators and teach them to aspiring Ulemah and Dai's.

I am reasonably certain that in some anti-Islamic thinks tank and agencies around the world both of the above will have been studied.

Every Madrassah needs to have a counselling course, we need students to be trained in counselling, simplest way of doing that is present real life cases on a myriad of issues that they will be accosted with from Addiction problems to Marriage problems to various spiritual problems, and the best advice and practical advice to give in each scenario, at the moment we have many graduate who are sent out without any practical training in this area and give advice they read in a book verbatim, whilst indviduals that approach them are seeking customised help for their own situation.

We need classes dealing in polemical issues presented by Rationalists, Secular Humanists, atheists, scientists, these are packaged in various forms, by groups such as feminists and homosexuals , modernists and reformists. These classes need to be taught at a high academic standard anyone who thinks, anyone who thinks they will be able to refute evolutionists after reading the works of
Harun Yahya will find themselves getting comlpletley bamboozled.

We need Media training and classses on how to counteract their propaganda and the biggest agents of despair are infact the Media, and what you find is that once an individual becomes an apostate rather then presenting their own arguments as to why they apostatized they present the common propaganda prevalent in the media and that has already become deeply embeded in their concious, "Islamic is Evil and Barbaric" "Islam is a Medieval religion" "Islam oppresses Women" "Islamic teaches Violence" "Sharia law is Barbaric".

Okay I will leave it at that.



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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 1st April 2016 18:21
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السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

Are all seven challenges, as well as others, linked to the same root causes?

If so, maybe it's the root cause that need to be tackled and the challenges will fall into place?

For example, could the root causes be:

  • A complete disinterest to tackle such matters by the majority of the ulama? If so how do we ignite interest?
  • Despondancy and a passive attitude regarding such matters? If so how do we instill hope?
  • Lack of finances and resources available to get the relevant training for those ulama that are interested? If so how can we provide finance and resources for the ulama and their dependants whilst they are studying?


There's many training avenues available if the initial interest and hope was there.

Training from Muslims as well as non Muslims.

If ulama wanted to and had the finances to, they could easily get training as counsellers, as journalists, as analysts and academics in various fields.

Ultimately, the objective should be, in my opinion, that all neccassary training needs to be incorporated into madrassah syllabus. The students can choose which "worldly" area of knowledge they wish to specialise in.


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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2016 20:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Perhaps we are looking at this all wrong?

Perhaps training doesn't need to be given to all the ulama?

Perhaps only a select few need to be trained to face various challenges?

History has proven again and again, in any field, that it is always the few who initiate change, who challenge the status quo, who revive, reinvigorate and establish.

The majority are usaually silent supporters, followers and commentators.



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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2016 22:34
Assalamu 'alaykum,

1. Apostasy : causes are many and essentially materialism which only puts doubt in the mind of every muslim and nothing more, but those that are disconnected from the jama'ah will of course be more prone to riddah. People in difficulties should have the help they need, but some people especially young ones are more prone to apostasy if not bred in the right environment.

2. Youtube: people are already on internet and will listen to things that interest them in life, including religion. Yes suhbah, bayaans etc.. are best when face to face, but times have changed and people learn islam just like they watch TV dramas and films. Scholars that appear on social medias should utilise these means, but gradually order their followers to abandon this way of learning and do the work in real life.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd April 2016 23:05
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i believe a similar thread was made recently but again it is a very important topic

with regards to apostasy i think we need to look closer to home and at ourselfs rather than others. i dont see why this is even surprise and needing discussion. muslims living with non muslims in non muslim lands, what else did u expect? us all becoming awlia Allah?

if sahabah whos imaan were solid as mountains refrained from living in non muslim lands what makes us exempt? lets face it most of us came for economic benefits ( im including those who were born here as a result of their parents coming over)


this alone is the single biggest reason all the other reasons are just symptoms of this situation secondly apostasy is not nothing new, i remember at college there were a few in my class. however now its kind of a trend/fasion to be a apostate. its also a good buisness opportunity. become an apostate and talk ill of islam as u are somehow an expert,

from what i see most apostates are ones who were cultural muslims to begin with. yes you do get some who were very practicing but thats more rare and when they leave its due to love for name and fame.

one issue i do see is muslims and scholars avoiding so called contraversial issues. i personally encourage asking difficult questions as for me it strenghens my imaan ( i accept this may not be for everyone). i often play devil adocvate if and when i come across certain ayahs and hadith and question QUALIFIED ulema who alhamdulillah are able to reconcile and explain the meaning and context. reason why this is important is its better for us to know whats in our deen and be proud of it rather then hearing it from a non muslims who is trying to use it to beat islam. for example killing of murtads, punishment for gays, rasoolullah (saw) marriage to aisha رضي الله عنه, killing of yahood tribes who betrayed the muslims. we should all discuss and know about this so if and when a non muslims comes out with the typical islam is barbaric rubbish we can respond rather than going into denial and apostatizing

finally we should stop looking at islam through the lens of modern 21st century seculurism.. if u compare so called liberal values and freedoms then yh it will trounce islam but islam is not a liberal idea. its a pure way of life and can stand the test of time. the west and seculirsm evoles constantly. i wont be surpised if in 100 years time they go back to making homosexuality illegal again and call it being liberal and free. we shoudnt be on the backfoot and defensive. be proud to be muslim and know we have the BEST way of life, laws, customs and values
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 4th April 2016 09:23
salaam

the first issue is the environment we live in. in this society homosexuality, evolution, atheism etc is encouraged and has now become the norm. due to peer pressure, media, education etc, muslim children and the older generation as well are pressured into accepting the trend of being anti fitrah and anti deen. even those who are not openly accepting of these concepts are bullied into staying quiet lest they get ridiculed and turned upon by the others.

lets not beat around the bush. the devil swore that he wold lead others astray and take them into hell with him and this is exactly what is happening. it is the devil and his various minions who is responsible for this. the solution is simply the quran and the sunnah. allah is more powerful than all. allah has shown us the way. it is us at fault for not fully accepting the solutions that have been provided to us by the creator. if we try to counter this by playing them at their own game then we will never win. they have made the rules. they have provided the playing field. they are refereeing the game. we dont have a chance. our only chance is the quran and the sunnah. but many do not want to accept this and try to find other solutions using our own intellect.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2016 01:23
there are a number of cases of some youngsters leaving Islam in Batley.
I only know of one alim so far who has addressed the issue.no support whatsoever.
regarding recent events I have contacted some of those interviewed and also wifaq .
no replies
,despite giving references from reputable ulema in Dewsbury.
in fact they already know my late father and whole family situation and experiences

alhamdulillah but 2 alims have been very responsive .

the sahabah would milk citizens goats and Hazrat umar r.a would be happy if criticised even in public.
more recently I've heard of such humility from past elders who would say to a critic"jazakallah for revealing my weakness,now inshallah I will try to remove it.

pls drop the hierarchy and caste and clique system
we are drowning.

let's have some dialogue and transparency please

it would also be nice to know who the alim is who posts as wifaq rep here,jazakallah.

I have pointed them all to my posts here.
I do not deceive and believe in complete accountability and transparency

Posted via the Muftisays Android App
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2016 19:46
Quote:
I believe that we have a difference set of challenges facing Muslims in the West


How about:

Challenge Number 8: Westernisation of Islam

I feel that increasingly people are picking and choosing minority opinions to follow thier nafs and using the excuse that we have to adopt to western culture. Only today I spoke to people who did not have any issue with

1. Removing segegration between genders - some actually encourage this
2. Musical instruments - again some actually encourage this
3. Drawing of animate pictures

The funny thing is, these are the very people who criticise and deride masaajid and madrassahs. They want professionally run, academic institutes based on the western models. I find that a lot of people in this train of thought end up abandoning many values and hiding behind the excuses of "culture" or "difference of opinion".

If thats the sort of institute a professionally run one turns into, I'll take the simple old fashioned model any day.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2016 20:14
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2016 09:36
BHAI1 wrote:
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Any chance of a small overview of whats written in there? conclusions?

JazakAllah.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2016 10:38
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For the solution to be truly successful it needs to, I believe, have a few key elements.

We can seek guidance as to what these elements are by looking towards historical movements, and in particular, I would say, to those closest to our time. Perhaps the the two most successful movements of last century, Jamaa at tabligh and ikhwan al muslimeen, can provide key pointers for us.

Of course it goes without saying that all these elements need to be rooted in guidance from the sunnah.

Element 1: Team work.

Perhaps our greatest failure today is that the efforts of the Muslims are not co-ordinated.

We have charities, academics, websites, institutions, journalists, political activists, talented writers and much more.

But nothing is co-ordinated. Every individual, or small group or organisation is doing their own thing in their own way with their own objectives promoting their own selves.

But individual effort can never be as powerful as a co-ordinates group or team effort.

We need an organisation that caters for all this. It assigns writing duties to talented writers, research to researchers, academia to academics etc. Different teams with different projects, tasks and objectives can be setup under an umbrella organisation.

The impact and reach of a teams of people, each assigned with it's own duties, will be far greater than anything any individual or lone organisation can achieve.

What we need is not just talented individuals or groups or institutions or organisations or charities.
What we need is a movement. As Hassan al Banna described it, “A spirit that moves in the veins of the people”.

A movement, setup in such a way that it remains extremely flexible and adaptable. Not tied down by money or requirements for buildings or tons of paperwork.

Many principles of jamaa at tabligh can be used as it has already proven itself to be amongst the most effective Islamic movement of modern times.

A few principles that should be included in such a movement:
  • Teamwork must be based on Islamic principles. There needs to be an ameer and mashwara instead of voting.
  • Constant repetition of some of the key principles so that they are deeply inculcated. For example at the start of every meeting remind everyone of the adaab of mashwara.
  • Networking. Nothing will get more people to help the team and develop more sub teams with different projects, tasks and objectives than personal networking.
  • All meetings need to be in masaajid. No need for fancy conference rooms. More barakah in masjid. We need to make the spiritual and practical side into one. Having meetings in masaajid will be a huge step towards this.


Element 2: Eliminate Money Collection.

Eliminate any methods that require collecting money, such as leaflets, hiring conference rooms etc.

  • Everyone must be working for the sake of Allah, not for a monetary reward. Each person should be able to give up a couple of hours a week to complete the task set for them.
  • Any travel and food expenses are paid for by the person themselves. It is part of the small sacrifice for deen.
  • In short, keep it like Tabligh, and a lot of the unessacary burecracy and paperwork is eliminated.


Element 3: Different Projects.

We can't focus on just one thing. The main umbrella body needs to make sure it is developing teams catering for different tasks and projects. Looking towards the ikhwaan al muslimeen as an example we can have projects focusing on:

  • tassawuff
  • political dialogue and activism
  • journalism
  • sports
  • Learning and developing things like lateral thinking and teamwork
  • Welfare
  • etc


Element 4: The networking effect

Forget advertising like leaflets. Of course have a website and other cheap basics to look professinoal enough. But networking in both the practical and spiritual spheres is the best form of advancing and developing teams. Jamaat at tabligh has already proven that.

How would all this work practically?

As an example, lets say the main umbrella starts off with:

  • three alims,
  • two lawyers,
  • two talented writers,
  • and three researchers.


Initially they would obviously select ameer, which would really have to be one of the ulama.

Then they would do mashwara on things like how often to have a meeting. Once a fortnight perhaps. What project to initiate. How is team development going on. (in future other things would be discussed such as how are past projects developing.)

The talented writers could be taking notes, as they would have to do a lot of the writing.
The researchers could also be taking notes as they would have to research.
The lawyers would ensure everything is legally compatible.

Everyone can come out with ideas for what projects to initiate. Ameer would obviously have final say.

Then tasks are given to the team members. Time scales are set.
So the researchers go away and research and speak to the writers who will obviously do the write up.

The lawyers and ulama could focus on developing more teams and sub teams under the main umbrella working on different projects.

In the long run there should be teams working on various projects with specialist skills.


Wow this post has got long. Dunno if it's making any sense or if anyone is even reading it, but I'll wait for some feedback. What I wll just say is that it only takes about 5 people to set this into motion initially.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2016 12:26
well youve summarised a lot of my posts and threads mashallah .
to add
personally i would utilise a tabligh tasawwuf model with taleem ,educating our masses


taleem tabligh and tasawwuf have the duas of the elders with them and have already withstood many accusations especially in dewsbury and the u.k as a whole.

the team needs rather a must.someone with real world experience of the whole terrorism ,media issue..a must.
if not local he must be consulted.online,phone etc

the book is by
www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrg3NWDT_TRt-7H1PX1Bfg

im waiting delivery but some of it is here i presume

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3937_08-04-2016/a-sugge...

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