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How the Shias and the Salafis are like sugar and honey

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The Shia are Kafir, so why are the Salafis following them bit by bit
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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2010 21:48
Which ruling of the Ahle Hadith/Salafi/Wahabi/Najdi/Ghair Muqallid or what ever they call themselves now, and Shias is the same? Remember that the Salafi DO go through a process of Evolution, but their fundamental beliefs will remain.

Lets take a look. References have been given to these claims.

1)Nawaab Noorul Hasan Khan who is a Ghair muqallid says that the saying of a
Sahabi رضي الله عنه is not a valid proof, (Urful Jaadi pg.207 vol.1) and this is precisely what the Shias believe.
2) Waheeduz Zamaan a Ghair muqallid scholar says it is okay to say 'yaa Ali or yaa Muhammed', (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.24) and this is also a Shiite belief.
3) He also says that there is no consensus on giving preference to Shaikhain (Abu
Bakr رضي الله عنه and Umar رضي الله عنه over all other Sahaba (R.A)), (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.94) this is also a Shiite belief.
4) To mention the names of the Khulafaa-e-raashiDeen in the (Friday) sermon is an innovation, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.90) this is also a Shiite belief.
5) The modern Ulama can be superior to the Sahaba (R.A), (Hadiyyatul Mahdi
pg.118) this is also a Shiite belief.
6) According to them, one may commit sodomy with ones wife, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi
pg.118) this also a Shiite belief. (Al-isthibsawr pg.243 vol.2 with reference, Irshaadushia)
7) According to Salafis, three divorces given in one sitting is equivalent to one divorce only, this is neither the belief of Imam Bukhari (R.A) nor the four Imams, but it is a Shiite belief.
8) Salafis reject consensus, and so do the Shias.
9) Ahle Hadith also accept temporary marriages, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.118) this also is a Shiite belief.
10) The Ghair muqallid scholar Waheeduz Zamaan says, 'We are the
followers of Ali رضي الله عنه (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.100)

The above has all the references needed. The Shia beliefs are clear to all.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 14:17

This is from a comment from the blog post of "our Aqeedah" the comment is regarding this subject, I have asked the brother to comment on the forum, but until he does....

 

Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010: Just an answer to the article which you pointed me to concerning the comparison of certain people with the shia. I have answered some points and left others due to constraints.



1)Nawaab Noorul Hasan Khan who is a Ghair muqallid says that the saying of a

Sahabi رضي الله عنه is not a valid proof, (Urful Jaadi pg.207 vol.1) and this is precisely what the Shias believe.

I have never heard of this man.His saying is ncorrect and no salafi would be caught dead with such a statement-the saying of the sahaba are one of the established foundations on which to base proof. We cant take the saying of an individual like Nawab Hassan and attribute it to a whole people-subhanAllah that is a great slander and unjust by whoever the author of that article was-if you look at the shaikhs of the salafis, they dont say what this man Nawab is attributed with saying. However, this saying does apply in certain circumstances and perhaps he meant it in that application, especially where the belief of a particular sahabi on a particular may not be correct, and there are very few examples of this:

Like when Umar )ra) was corrected by the woman.

Or when Umar رضي الله عنه did not know the sunnah of knocking on doors and so was corrected.

Or when Ali رضي الله عنه was more correct then Muawiyah in his ijtihaad(this is accepted amongst ahl as sunnah)

Or when Abu Bakrرضي الله عنه was incorrect in some of the interpretation of a dream within which Rasoolullah(saw) corrected him.

All of these instances show that it is possible for sahabah to sometimes lack knowledge or the correct opion on a particular rare issue- this is the belief of ahlus sunnah- does it then make ahlus sunnah shia?

2) ''Waheeduz Zamaan a Ghair muqallid scholar says it is okay to say ‘yaa Ali or yaa Muhammed’, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.24) and this is also a Shiite belief.''

It is kufr to say these things by calling upon the anbiyaa, sahaba and awliyaa. Albani himself wrote a book against this (called Tawassul) and every salafi scholar I know is against this. The writer of this article really exposes his stance on the matter here by quoting a shaadh,rejected and despicable opinion in order to support an argument that seems more like it is based on desires then on scholarly criticism.

If we were to take all odd opinions then we would go to extremes. For example, Imam Suyuuti رضي الله عنه is reported to not have believed that the Prophet (saw) parents are going to hell. However there is a clear hadith in Muslim affirming this.Would we then take this opinion of Suyuti and attribute everyone who praises his tafseer as being disbelievers in the hadith of Muslim?

Would it be right for me to class every hanafi as an eater of interest based on rulings attributed to Abu Hanfiah that interest based transactions with kuffar are halal in darul harb?

Then how can we take one shadh statement of someone and attribute his belief to a whole group?

8) Salafis reject consensus, and so do the Shias.

How is that? Only the dhaahiris and deviants amongst those who call themselves 'salafi' are known to reject consensus-y everyone can not be painted with the same brush.

Could you provide me an example of where this is the case then? Otherwise the accusation stands T MERELY THAT- AN ACCUSATION BASED ON NO EVIDENCE. Also isnt it called rejecting consensus when we consider riba in darul harb halal?

9) Ahle Hadith also accept temporary marriages, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.118) this also is a Shiite belief.

I am not from ahl e hadith in terms of being a person that just pulls out a hadith from bukhari and follows it without understanding its context etc (i know that there are uninformed people who may have this disease)... but i never heard that one before!lol

10) The Ghair muqallid scholar Waheeduz Zamaan says, ‘We are the followers of Ali رضي الله عنه (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.100

Every sunni is a follower of Ali رضي الله عنه as well the Uthman, Umar and Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه - I s there anything wrong with me saying that I am a follower of Abu Bakrرضي الله عنه?

Thank you for your reply brother and please forgive me for taking up so much of your valuable time.

'What we consider strong, you may consider it to be weak,'

I do not of my own accord consider these things, rather I gave you scholarly authentication for the hadith, something sadly which was not provided back in defence of the hadith in question.

I believe that there is a mutawatir hadith narrated by over 70 companions regarding a seat in hell to the oen who attributes a lie to the Prophet knowingly. As a sincere believer in Allah and His messenger, if you do not find any evidence to support the hadith , then in order to save yourself from Allah, you need to remove the article spreading what is clearly a 'hadith' that has no foundation. And since Ibn qattan was mentioned, then you would know that he would never accept a hadith in his right mind like the one under discussion where its chain does not exist.

Also (and thsi is a genuine question based upon my own ignorance) is it fair to say that the number of scholars praising Abu Hanifah on hadith outweighs those criticising him? I only mentioned a few quotes earlier for the sake of not causing fitnah - but now I find myself forced to mention more in order to establish from yourself(since you are probably more knowledgeable about Abu Hanifah). Check the following

Imaam Muslim says in ‘al-Kunaa wal Asmaa’ [q. 31/1], "mudtarib al-hadeeth (confused and mixes up hadeeth). He does not have many authentic hadeeth."

Imaam an-Nasaa`ee says at the end of ‘ad-Du`afaa wal Matrookeen’ [pg. 57], "he is not strong in hadeeth and he makes many mistakes despite the fact that he only narrates a few narrations."

Ibn Adee says in ‘al-Kaamil’ [2/403], "he has some acceptable hadeeth but most of what he narrates are mistakes, errors and incorrect additions in isnaads and texts and errors regarding peoples names - most of what he narrates is like this. Out of all that he narrates, only ten odd ahaadeeth are authentic and he has narrated around three hundred ahaadeeth including famous and strange ones - all of them in this way. This is because he is not from the People of Hadeeth and hadeeth are not taken from one such as this in the field of hadeeth."

Ibnu Abdil Barr Al-Maaliki (r.a.) mentions in Jaami’u Bayaanil I’lmi wa Fadlihi (pg.149): Those who narrated from Abu Haneefah (r.a.) and supported his authenticity are much more in number than those who criticised him (this is in agreement with your statement however look below)

Ibn Sa`d said in ‘at-Tabaqaat’ [6/256], "he is da`eef in hadeeth."

Al-Uqailee says in ‘ad-Du`afaa’ [pg. 432], "Abdullaah bin Ahmad narrated to us saying: I heard my father (Imaam Ahmad) say: the hadeeth of Abu Haneefah are da`eef."

ibn Abee Haatim said in ‘al-Jarh wat-Ta`deel’ [4/1/450], "Hajjaaj bin Hamzah narrated to us saying:Abdaan ibn Uthmaan narrated to us saying: I heard ibn al-Mubaarak say: Abu Haneefah was miskeen (poor) with regards hadeeth."

Abu Hafs ibn Shaaheen said, "Abu Haneefah with regards to fiqh then no one can fault his knowledge however he was not pleasing in hadeeth…" As is quoted at the end of ‘Taareekh al-Jarjaan’ [pg. 510-511]

Ibn Hibbaan said, "…hadeeth was not his field. He reported one hundred and thirty musnad ahaadeeth and no more, erring in one hundred and twenty either through reversing the isnaads or changing the text without knowing. Therefore when his errors outweigh that which he is correct in it is deserving to leave depending upon him in narrations."

Ad-Daaruqutnee says in his Sunan [pg. 132]…., "no one reports it from Musa ibn Abee Aa`ishah except Abu Haneefah and al-Hasan ibn Umaarah and both are da`eef."

Al-Haakim quotes in ‘Ma`rifah al-Ulum al-Hadeeth’ [pg. 256] amongst a group of narrators of the Atbaa` at-Taabi`een and those who came after them - whose ahaadeeth are not accepted in the Saheeh concluding by saying, "so all those we have mentioned are people well known for having narrated - but are not counted as being amongst the reliable precise memorisers."

Al-Haafidh Abdul Haqq al-Ishbeelee mentions ‘al-Ahkaam al-Kubraa’ [q. 17/2], …."Abu Haneefah is not used as a proof due to his weakness in hadeeth."

Ibn al-Jawzee mentions him in ‘Kitaab ad-Du`faah wal Matrookeen’ [3/163] mentioning the weakening of the Imaams of him and from ath-Thawree that he said, "he is not trustworthy and precise." And from an-Nadr ibn Shameel, "abandoned in hadeeth."

Adh-Dhahabee says in ‘ad-Du`afaah’, "an-Nu`maan, the Imaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him. Ibn Adee said: most of what he narrates are mistakes, errors and additions and he has some acceptable ahaadeeth. An-Nasaa`ee said: he is not strong in hadeeth, he makes many errors and mistakes even though he does not narrate very much. Ibn Ma`een said: his hadeeth are not to be recorded."

[Translators addition: al-Qurtobee said at the beginning of his tafseer [1/86], "…and Abu Haneefah and he is da`eef."

I agree as Ibn Hajar did that abu Hanifah was a faqeeh and a great mind at that. However it is no secret that he has been criticised -whether rightly or wrongly that it is not my place to judge

'there is a lot of sick people out there who have caused plenty of friction. I dont wont to be a part of that.'

By levelling the focus of these blogs against salafis, brother it results in just that, and adding to it by quoting mawdoo hadith only adds to it. It is better to take an aspect where they are incorrect and refute the IDEA.

'I understand what you are saying about the school you follow, but at the end of the day we follow The Prophet and his companions, and the opinions of the Imams are based on them. '

true brother- but not every opinion from every school is correct, moreso where ijmaa is against that opinion then we need to think really carefully. Ignorance is not always an excuse for following a scholar blindly in the case where he is incorrect, the shia reject ijmaa and in the same way it is sad that some of those who follow our father Abu Hanifa will also do the same. The yahud and nasara are chastised by Allah for following their rabbis and monks in opposition to the rulings of Allah. If we do not study and are not careful then we can fall into the same trap- especially if we consider ourselves fit to give da'wah , then we need to have knowledge of these things moreso then other people and should not use the excuse of a lack of knowledge-especially in a clear cut issue like the ruling on a hadith which has a non-existant chain.

'The Hanabila will be Hanabila and the Salafis will remain Salafi'

Even if they have the same usul? Where do the salafis exactly and clearly differ with the hanbalis? It is not necessary that every one who calls himself salafi does not pray 20 rakah or follow ibn taymiyyahرضي الله عنه on divorce, so where is the difference?
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 16:28
This is the 3rd time and this time its my mistake, I wrote a whole reply out for the above (except the Hadith quotes, I will leave that for the more learned ones) and I some how pressed the "back" button using the key board and I lost every thing.

Any way, That was the Will of Allah, may be I said something I shouldnt of said. I will InshaAllah try to go through it again and this time I will do it bit by bit.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 16:34
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:1)Nawaab Noorul Hasan Khan who is a Ghair muqallid says that the saying of a Sahabi رضي الله عنه is not a valid proof, (Urful Jaadi pg.207 vol.1) and this is precisely what the Shias believe.

I have never heard of this man


If you ask a Hanafi if he has heard of lets say 35 randomly selected scholars from the Hanafi school in the time of Imam Abu Hanifa, he will most likely say "No, I've never heard of him".
www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/532_05-11-2010/top-40...
Try it, take from this list and ask.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:11
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:However, this saying does apply in certain circumstances and perhaps he meant it in that application, especially where the belief of a particular sahabi on a particular may not be correct, and there are very few examples of this:
Like when Umar )ra) was corrected by the woman.
Or when Umar رضي الله عنه did not know the Sunnah of knocking on doors and so was corrected.


You may not of heard of him, but it sounds like you are backing him up just a little.

Dont mix up belief with actions. Careful.

We cant say Umar(R) didnt know that he should have knocked on the door. You do know that he was Ameerul Mu'mineen at the time of this incident. He did it out of anger and because he was lied too. But, SubhanAllah, he stood corrected by the person in question and remained silent.

The Lady in question, again, as far as I can recall, this was the same woman who argued with the Prophet(SAW) about divorce and Allah revealed a verse in the Quran about it. What did Umar(R) say to his companions, it was something like "who am I not to listen to her, when even Allah listened to her" (the wording is my own, please forgive me). But then again it could of been a different lady.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:23
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
Or when Ali رضي الله عنه was more correct then Muawiyah in his ijtihaad(this is accepted amongst ahl as sunnah)
Or when Abu Bakrرضي الله عنه was incorrect in some of the interpretation of a dream within which Rasoolullah(saw) corrected him.

All of these instances show that it is possible for Sahabah to sometimes lack knowledge or the correct opion on a particular rare issue- this is the belief of ahlus sunnah- does it then make ahlus Sunnah shia?


You use the term Ahlus Sunnah, so do I, but I will get back to that later.

Lacking knowledge is one thing, making mistakes is another. Please dont mistake the two. We lack knowledge and we make mistakes, but I wouldnt dare say that about any Sahabi.

The point is, when they agreed upon something, specialy the Khulafa e Rashedeen, then why dont the Salafi's accept that and stick to it, rather than saying we accept it but we can still do this.
the only people who have rejected any thing that came from Abu Bakr(R), Umar(R), & Uthman(R) were the Shias. Today we have mosques that say 20 Rakaats taraweeh is not the Sunnah. But it can be done, SubhanAllah.
www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/392_23-08-2010/tarawe...

www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/5020/...
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:32
Quote:
2) ''Waheeduz Zamaan a Ghair muqallid scholar says it is okay to say 'yaa Ali or yaa Muhammed', (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.24) and this is also a Shiite belief.''
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
It is kufr to say these things by calling upon the anbiyaa, sahaba and awliyaa. Albani himself wrote a book against this (called Tawassul) and every salafi scholar I know is against this.


I take it you have heard of him!
The references are there, If you want you can check it out, I'm not gonna bother because the Scholars have done this, but if I was taking from him, then I certainly would check it out.

You say "Every Salafi Scholar", so I take it you are Salafi and not Hanbali. Other wise you could have said "Every Scholar of the Salaf", I'll give you the benefit of doubt as taught by the Prophet and a great example given here of Imam Abu Hanifa:
www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/406_16-09-2010/is-he-...

Tawassul, Well again I or some one else will get back to you on that later InshaAllah.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:35
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
If we were to take all odd opinions then we would go to extremes. For example, Imam Suyuuti رضي الله عنه is reported to not have believed that the Prophet (saw) parents are going to hell. However there is a clear Hadith in Muslim affirming this.Would we then take this opinion of Suyuti and attribute everyone who praises his tafseer as being disbelievers in the Hadith of Muslim?


These things we leave to Allah, trust me, its safer!
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:48
Riba as you have mentioned is not something I have come accross, I will leave this for later or for someone else.

Quote:
8) Salafis reject consensus, and so do the Shias.
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
How is that? Only the dhaahiris and deviants amongst those who call themselves 'salafi' are known to reject consensus- everyone can not be painted with the same brush.

Could you provide me an example of where this is the case then? Otherwise the accusation stands MERELY THAT- AN ACCUSATION BASED ON NO EVIDENCE.


Ijma is rejected using clever terminology, the Salafi mosques dont give 2 Adhans for Jumuah, I have also been told that the 4 rakaats before Jumuah as prayed by us is also wrong, and once again, the famous Taraweeh and Talaq.

Amazing how the most famous Hadith (my signature) is not considered when a man intended to give 3 talaqs and says it 3 times but it is only counted as 1 talaq, SubhanAllah. I have heard that it is long story and that Umar(R) came up with this notion. So what if he did. See the link above regarding the words of Umar(R). Even Imam Bukhari says 3 talaqs in one go is 3 and not 1. I guess he understood the Hadith of Intention better then the people of today and the Shia.

After 3 Talaqs, the man and woman would be doing Zina, think about it. What about the children they have, will they be legitimate?
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 17:55
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
I am not from ahl e Hadith in terms of being a person that just pulls out a Hadith from bukhari and follows it without understanding its context etc


If I was to read in-between the lines, i can say that the wording used here is to slip away from the group, rather you have saidin terms of being a person that just pulls out a Hadith from bukhari, hence the people of Hadith. AllahuAllum.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 18:04
Point number 10, fair enough, I havent read the rest of the reason behind it.

I know that the other points are absurd, but you didnt touch on points 3 to 7.

3) He also says that there is no consensus on giving preference to Shaikhain (Abu
Bakr رضي الله عنه and Umar رضي الله عنه over all other Sahaba (R.A)), (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.94) this is also a Shiite belief.
4) To mention the names of the Khulafaa-e-raashiDeen in the (Friday) sermon is an innovation, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi pg.90) this is also a Shiite belief.
5) The modern Ulama can be superior to the Sahaba (R.A), (Hadiyyatul Mahdi
pg.118) this is also a Shiite belief.
6) According to them, one may commit sodomy with ones wife, (Hadiyyatul Mahdi
pg.118) this also a Shiite belief. (Al-isthibsawr pg.243 vol.2 with reference, Irshaadushia)
7) According to Salafis, three divorces given in one sitting is equivalent to one Divorce only, this is neither the belief of Imam Bukhari (R.A) nor the four Imams, but it is a Shiite belief.


Point 4) Well I have heard the names being mentioned in the Khutbah.
Point 5) well!
Point 6) well!
I guess I covered point 7.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 21:47
abu mohammed wrote:
Point number 10, fair enough, I havent read the rest of the reason behind it.

I know that the other points are absurd, but you didnt touch on points 3 to 7.


Sorry, my mistake, I over looked the very first few lines in which you have said that you didnt go through them all due to some contraints.

Sorry bro, i didnt see it.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 21:57
This is off the topic, however the comments are here so I will go ahead. I was going to paste a link but, like me, many people dont opne links so I have pasted the whole thing here

From a link provided by Brother Muadh, Jazakallah, May Allah reward you for your efforts.

Before discussing these criticisms in detail, one should understand that most of the criticisms which were levelled against Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.) were either due to jealousy or due to lack of correct information about him.

Ibnu Abdil Barr Al-Maaliki (r.a.) mentions in Jaami'u Bayaanil I'lmi wa Fadlihi (pg.149): Those who narrated from Abu Haneefah (r.a.) and supported his authenticity are much more in number than those who criticised him.

Taaj-ud-Deen As-Subki (r.a.) has mentioned in Tabaqaat-ush-Shafi`iyyah Al-Kubra under the discussion of Ahmad ibnu Saalih Al-Misri (r.a.):

"The correct view according to us is that when a person has been recognised as an imam and there are many who praise him, then one will not pay any attention to the little criticism that is levelled against him; otherwise there will be no one who would be free from any criticism." (Arba`u Rasaa-il fi U`loomil Hadeeth, pg.19)

Thus we understand that the little criticism that has been levelled against Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.) does not affect his high status in the least.

Due to the fact that many of the quotations that have been mentioned are recorded in Taareekh-ul-Baghdad, it is necessary for us to understand the authenticity of these narrations. Muhammad ibnu Yusuf As-Saalihi Ash-Shafi`ee (r.a.) writes in U`qoodul Jumaan:

Most of the narrations which Khateeb (r.a.) has mentioned against Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.) have mutakallam or majhool narrators. Let alone criticising an Imam of the Muslims with such narrations, it is not permissible for anyone to criticise any Muslim.

If we assume them to be authentic, then they are reported from those who came after Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.), and did not see him. They merely followed what they had read in books of those who had enmity for him. And if these criticisms are reported from his contemporaries who had prejudice for him, then it would be totally disregarded.

Allamah Zahabi (r.a.) and Hafiz Ibnu Hajar (r.a.) have mentioned that the criticism of contemporaries will be disregarded especially if it is based on prejudice or difference of mazhab. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.59)

Let us now discuss the view of each scholar separately.

Imam Ahmad bin Hambal (r.a.):



Criticism No.1: Imam Ahmad bin Hambal (r.a.) was asked about Imam Maalik (r.a.). The reply was, 'his ahadeeth are correct but the narrators are weak.' Then someone asked him about Imam Shafi`ee (r.a.). The reply was, 'his ahadeeth and opinion is correct.' Then someone asked about Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.). He said 'Nu`maan's opinions and his ahadeeth bear no value.'

Answer:

1) A similar narration has been recorded by Khateeb Baghdadi (r.a.). We find in the chain of narrators a person by the name of Muhammad ibnu Abdillah Ash-Shafi`ee, who was a muta`assib (prejudiced / biased) shafi`ee. Hence, that is why the only Imam that has been praised in this narration is Imam Shafi`ee (r.a.). Therefore, his narrations containing the criticism of other imams are not accepted by the scholars of hadith. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.247)

2) The statement that the ahadeeth of Imam Maalik (r.a.) are correct but the narrators are weak cannot be understood, simply because Imam Shafi`ee (r.a.) who was the ustaad of Imam Ahmad (r.a.) had mentioned: "I do not know of any kitaab besides the kitaab of Allah that is more authentic than the Muwatta of Imam Maalik (r.a.)." (Sharhu Sharhi Nukhbatil Fikar, pg.268)

In fact, Imam Bukhaari (r.a.) has mentioned that the most authentic chain of narrators in hadith is that of 'Maalik from Naafi` from Ibnu Umar (r.a.)'. (Sharhu Sharhi Nukhbatil Fikar, pg.260)

3) In this allegation it is mentioned that Imam Abu Haneefah's (r.a.) opinions bear no value, whereas he is famously known as Imamu Ahlir-Rai', even according to those who criticise him. Hence, how can he be called an imam if his rai (opinion) bears no value? (Ta'neebul Khateeb pg.247)

Criticism No.2: 'Imam Ahmad (r.a.) cautioned Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.) because he would accept weak and fabricated Hadeeth'.

Answer: Wakee` (r.a.) said: None was so cautious in Hadeeth like Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.). And Imam Ahmad (r.a.) had said regarding Wakee` (r.a.), "I have not seen someone who had a greater memory than Wakee` (r.a.)." (Ma Tamassu Ilaihil Haajah, pg.11)

Criticism No.3: 'Imam Ahmad (r.a.) said that a goat's faeces is on par with the fatwas of Abu Haneefah (r.a.)'.

Answer:

1) There are many weak narrators in the chain of this narration viz. Ibnu Rizk, Nijaad, Abdullah ibnu Ahmad, and Mahna' ibnu Yahya.

2) It is difficult to believe that a person with such a refined temperament like Imam Ahmad (r.a.) would use such foul language against a great Imam. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.225)

Criticism No.4: Ahmad ibnu Hambal (r.a.) said that Abu Haneefah (r.a.) is a liar.

Answer: Yahya bin Ma`een (r.a.) stated regarding Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.): He was reliable and I did not hear anyone declaring him as weak. If Imam Ahmad (r.a.) had really regarded Abu Haneefah (r.a.) as a liar, then Yahya bin Ma`een (r.a.) would have definitely known about it, because they used to meet very frequently. So, the fact that Ibnu Maee'n (r.a.) said that he had not heard anyone declaring him as weak, is a clear indication that this statement which is attributed to Imam Ahmad (r.a.) is not true. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.254)

Thus, it is difficult to believe that Imam Ahmad (r.a.) had made such statements against Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.), whereas Imam Ahmad (r.a.) began his studies of Hadeeth under Abu Yusuf (r.a.) who was a leading student of Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.). Similarly, there are many statements of Imam Ahmad (r.a.) in praise of Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.).

View of Imam Maalik (r.a.):

Criticism No.1: Imam Maalik (r.a.) said, "Abu Haneefah (r.a.) was the worst of people and that it would have been easier for him to raise his sword against the Muslims."

Answer:

1) This has been mentioned in one article as you have stated, so what is the authenticity of it?

2) This narration seems incorrect, because Imam Maalik (r.a.) was such a personality who would have not slandered anyone.

Criticism No.2: Imam Maalik (r.a.) said that for the Muslims Abu Hanifa's (r.a.) fitnah is more damaging than the fitnah of Shaytaan.

Answer: There are many weak narrators in the chain thereby rendering the narration totally weak viz. Ibnu Rizk, Ibnu Salam, and Al-Abaar, Habeeb ibnu Zuraiq. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.169)

Criticism No.3: Imam Maalik ibnu Anas (r.a.) stated that 'in Islam, no one has damaged it more than Nu'maan'.

Answer: There are many weak narrators in the chain viz. Abdullah ibnu Ja'far, Hasan ibnu Sabbaah, and Ishaaq ibnu Ibraaheem. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.167/ Makaanatu Abi Haneefah, pg.221)

Criticism No.4: Once Imam Maalik (r.a.) asked Waleed ibnu Muslim (r.a.): 'Do people listen to Abu Hanifa (r.a.) in your city? He said: Yes.' Imam Maalik (r.a.) replied 'it's amazing that your city has not been destroyed'.

Answer: There are many weak narrators in the chain. Thus, this will render the narration totally unreliable viz. Ibnu Rizk, Abu Ma'mar Ismaae'el ibnu Ibraaheem Al-Huzaly, and Abdullaah ibnu Ahmad.

Thus we understand, that one cannot prove from such weak narrations that Imam Maalik (r.a.) had criticised such a great Imam of his time. Great Maaliki Ulama have even refuted these narrations. (See Ta'neebul Khateeb pg.185). On the contrary, there are many strong and famous narrations which prove that Imam Maalik (r.a.) had very high regards for Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.).

View of Imam Shafi`ee (r.a.):

Criticism No.1: Imam Shaafi'i (r.a.) said 'that no-one more mischievous has appeared than Abu Hanifa (r.a.)'.

Answer: In this narration Ash-Shaafi`ee does not refer to Imam Shaafi`ee (r.a.), rather it refers to one of the narrators Muhammad ibnu Abdillaah Ash-Shaafi`ee, who was a muta`assib (prejudiced) shafi`ee. Hence, his narration would not be accepted against the Imam of another mazhab. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.176)

Criticism No.2: Imam Shaafi'i (r.a.) said 'that Imam Abu Hanifa's (r.a.) fatwas are like a chameleon, they continually change their colours'.

Answer: There are two weak narrators in the chain viz. Ibnu Rizk and Abu Amr ibnu Simaak. (Ta'neebul Khateeb, pg.219)

Again, it is extremely difficult to believe that Imam Shaafi`ee (r.a.) had criticised Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.), because there are numerous narrations in which Imam Shaafi`ee (r.a.) had praised Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.). Furthermore, Imam Shaafi`ee (r.a.) was a student of Imam Muhammad (r.a.), who was considered to be among the leading students of Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.).

For more information about the narrations of Taareekh-ul-Baghdad against Imam Abu Haneefah (r.a.), refer to Ta'neebul Khateeb a`la maa saaqahu fi tarjamati Abi Haneefah min-al-akazeeb by Allamah Zaahid Al-Kawthari.

View of Imam Sufyan Thauri :

The criticism of Imam Sufyan Thauri levelled against Imam Abu Haneefah cannot be accepted for the very reason that it has been proven that he had actually praised Imam Abu Haneefah. Hereunder are some of the reasons why his criticism cannot be accepted:

1) The illustrious scholar of his time A`llamah Taaj-ud-Deen As-Subki (r.a.) writes: The criticism of Sufyan Thauri regarding him (Imam Abu Haneefah) should be ignored. (Qawaa`id fi U`loom-il-Hadith, pg 195)

2) Sufyan Thauri is reported to have said:

"(Imam) Abu Haneefah was the most knowledgeable person on the surface of the earth in his lifetime." (Ta`leeq a`la Al-Intiqaa li Ibni A`bdil Barr - Shaikh Abdul Fattah, pg 24)

3) Abu Yusuf was heard saying:

"Sufyan Thauri is a more ardent follower of (Imam) Abu Haneefah than myself." (Al-Intiqaa li Ibni A`bdil Barr, pg 198)

4) Abu Mutee` says: "I was once sitting with (Imam) Abu Haneefah when a group of ulama amongst whom was Sufyan Thauri came to discuss some issues with Imam Abu Haneefah. After a very long discussion they said to Imam Abu Haneefah:

'You are the leader of the ulama. Please forgive us for anything that we might have said regarding you in the past.'" (Abu Haneefah wa As-habuhu-al-Muhaddithoon, pg 59)

View of Yahya bin Ma`een

The criticism of Yahya bin Ma`een cannot be accepted for the following reasons:

1) It is narrated from Ibnu Ma`een that he said:

"There is no problem (laa ba`s) regarding Abu Haneefah." (ta`leeq a`la Al-Intiqaa, pg 246)

Ibnu Ma`een has explained:

"Whenever I use the words laa ba's I mean that the particular narrator is authentic and reliable." (Qawaa`id fi U`loomil Hadith, pg 250)

2) Salim bin Muhammad (r.a.) said, "I personally heard Ibnu Ma`een saying:

'Abu Haneefah was thiqah (reliable) in hadith.'" (ta`leeq a`la Al-Intiqaa, pg 246)

3) Yahya bin Ma`een stated:

"Abu Haneefah (r.a.) was totally reliable and truthful in hadith and fiqh, and a guardian of Allah's deen."

4) He also mentioned regarding (Imam) Abu Haneefah (r.a.):

"I have not heard anyone classifying him as dha`eef (weak)." (Muqaddamah Aujaz-ul-Masaalik, pg 58)

View of Imam Bukhari

The criticism of Imam Bukhari will not be accepted for the following reasons:

1) Firstly, it is an accepted principle of Jarh and Ta`deel that the criticism of the latter ulama against the former will not be accepted, as explained by Taaj-ud-Deen As-Subki which we have discussed at the beginning.

It is quite evident from the previous statements that Imam Abu Haneefah is from amongst those whom the vast majority of ulama supported his authenticity. Thus, the criticism of a few individuals will not affect his position.

2) It has been proven in many instances where Imam Bukhaari (r.a.) said regarding some narrators: feehi nazr (there is some deficiency in him).

However, the imams of Jarh and Ta`deel have not accepted his verdict, rather they accepted those narrators.

Shaikh Abdul Fattah makes reference to such narrators whom the ulama of jarh have accepted but Imam Bukhari regarded them as weak and not suitable. (ta`leeq a`la Arraf`u wat Takmeel, pg 389 - 391)

3) Hafiz Sakhawi writes:

"the kalam of Ibnu Hayyan (r.a.) regarding some of the imams, the words of Ibnu A`diy, Khateeb Al-Baghdadi and the ulama before them like Ibnu Abi Shaymah, Bukhaari, and Nasai (r.a.) with regards to some of the aimmah is such that it is Wajib not to follow them in their views although their intentions may have been correct. (Ma Tamassu ilaihi al-Hajah, pg 20)

View of Imam Nasai:

We cannot accept the criticism of Imam Nasai due to the following reasons:

1) The words of Imam Nasai are laisa bil qawi. This does not mean in any way that Imam Abu Haneefah was weak as far as his memory was concerned. It is only an indication to a few errors which were made by Imam Abu Haneefah according to the opinion of Imam Nasai. However, we cannot accept this criticism of Imam Nasai since it was not explained as to what he is referring to in this situation.

2) This criticism cannot be accepted for the mere fact that it contradicts the detailed authentication of Imam Abu Haneefah. (Makanatu Abi Haneefah, pg 233)

3) Shaikh Abdurrasheed Nu`mani writes in Ma Tamassu Ilaihi al-Hajah, pg 38:

"Imam Nasai has enlisted Imam Abu Haneefah and three other of his students under the dua`faa (weak narrators). In spite of this, he has reported a hadith on the authority of Imam Abu Haneefah in his Sunan. Hafiz Ibnu Hajar has stated in At-Tahzeeb (vol 10, pg 403) under the discussion of Imam Abu Haneefah: the following appears in Sunan An-Nasai:-

A`asim narrates from Abu Razeen who narrates from Ibnu Abbas that he said, 'there is no hadd (punishment) for one who engages in sexual intercourse with an animal.'

It appears in the narration of Abu Ali Asyuti and the Magharibah from Imam Nasai:- Nu`man narrated from A`asim, and the chain of narrators continues the same. However, in the narration of Ibnul Ahmar from Imam Nasai it is stated:

Nu`man i.e. Abu Haneefah."

Shaikh Abdurrasheed thereafter comments:

I say: "it is highly possible that he (Imam Nasai) retracted from his criticism on Imam Abu Haneefah and this could have been at the time when Imam Nasai met Imam Tahawi in Egypt and after sitting in his company."

View of Daaraqutni:

The allegations of Daaraqutni will not be accepted for the following reasons:

1) Allamah Lucknowi states in Ar-Raf`u wat Takmeel:

The opinions of Daaraqutni and his likes regarding Imam Abu Haneefah are not deserving of being accepted. (pg 76)

2) As far as Daaraqutni regarding Imam Abu Haneefah as weak then this is possibly due to ta`assub. If one carefully studies the Sunan of Daaraqutni he will realise that he is in support of the mazhab of Imam Shaafi`ee, and in trying to do so he comments on some reliable narrators as weak.

For example, the famous muhaddith Muhammad bin Abdirrahman bin Abi Layla al-Qadhi. After narrating the hadith regarding the taharah of mani (semen) with a chain of narrators containing Ibnu Abi Layla, Daaraqutni comments: he (Ibnu Abi Layla) is thiqah (reliable), but there is a slight weakness in his memory.

Later in the kitab, after narrating the hadith regarding the shafa` (repeating) of the words of iqamat on the authority of Ibnu Abi Layla, Daaraqutni comments: da`eef and he has a poor memory.

Yet further in the kitab after narrating the hadith regarding the qaarin performing two sa`ees on the authority of Ibnu Abi Layla, Daaraqutni comments: he has a very bad and poor memory and he errs a lot. (ta`leeq a`la Nasb-ur-Rayah, Shaikh Muhammad Awwamah, vol 2, pg 8)

Thus, we understand that the opinion of Daaraqutni regarding Imam Abu Haneefah holds no weight since it was due to ta`assub (prejudice) that he commented in such a manner regarding Imam Abu Haneefah.

View of Imam Muslim:

The criticism of Imam Muslim cannot be accepted for the following reasons:

1) We cannot accept that Imam Abu Haneefah had a weak memory since great luminaries and contemporaries of Imam Abu Hanifah had acknowledged his profound and excellent memory and authenticity. Ulama like Shu`bah, Ibnu Ma`een and Yahya ibnu Sa`eed Al-Qattan etc. had approved of the memory of Imam Abu Haneefah. Imam Muslim only came a century later. Hence, how could his criticism ever be accepted in the presence of the approval and acknowledgement of such great ulama?

As far as Imam Abu Haneefah not having any authentic hadith, then this is totally baseless. It is a proven fact that Imam Abu Haneefah has more than a hundred thunaaiyyat (there are only two narrators between him and Rasulullah). Among them are the silsilatuz zahab i.e. Naafi` from Ibnu Umar. They can be located in Jaami`ul Masaaneed lil Imam Al-A`zam.

Hence, how can one ever have the slightest doubt in the authenticity of the narrations of Imam Abu Haneefah.

View of Ibnu Hibban

The criticism of Ibnu Hibban levelled against Imam Abu Haneefah is not something which attention should be paid towards due to the following reasons:

1) Hafiz Zahabi and Hafiz Ibnu Hajar A`sqalani (r.a.) have stated regarding the criticism of Ibnu Hibban:

"Many a time Ibnu Hibban criticises a reliable person to such an extent that at times it seems that he himself was totally unaware of what he was uttering." (Al-Intiqaa, pg 236)

2) Hafiz Ibnu Salaah mentioned: "Ibnu Hibban committed a grave error by levelling criticism against Imam Abu Haneefah." (Ta'neeb-ul-Khateeb, pg 146)

3) Allamah Kauthari stated: "In reality, the criticism of Ibnu Hibban is as a result of his ta`ssub (prejudice)." (Ta'neeb-ul-Khateeb, pg 146)

View of Abdullah bin Mubarak:

1) Allamah Kauthari explains that the statement of Abdullah bin Mubarak where he said: "Abu Haneefah is miskeen in hadith," in no way implies that Imam Abu Haneefah had very little knowledge in the science of hadith. Rather, being miskeen in hadith refers to the fact that Imam Abu Haneefah's focus was not directed towards relating many turuq (chain of narrators) when narrating a hadith as is the habit of those muhadditheen who have devoted themselves solely for the transmitting of hadith.

Being a mujtahid, Imam Sahib's attention was focused to a greater extent to the deducing of ahkaam (laws and verdicts) from the various ahadeeth. (Ta'neeb-ul-Khateeb, pg 235)

2) Hafiz Zahabi writes regarding Abu Haneefah's vastness in the science of hadith: "Indeed Imam Abu Haneefah pursued hadith and he compiled plenty of ahadeeth in the year 100 A.H. and thereafter as well." (Al-Intiqaa, pg 205)

3) Hafiz Muhammad bin Yusuf as-Saalihi ad-Damishqi Ash-Shafi`ee writes in his kitab U`qood-ul-Jumaan:

Note well that Imam Abu Haneefah is from amongst the very senior ranking huffaz (those who memorised many ahadeeth) of hadith.

In yet another place he mentioned:

Imam Abu Haneefah had obtained hadith from 4000 mashaaikh. (Some of whom were tabi`een) (Al-Intiqaa, pg 205)

4) Yahya bin Ma`een mentioned:

"Abu Haneefah was thiqah in the science of hadith. He would only quote such ahadeeth which he had committed to memory. Never would he quote a hadeeth which he had not committed to memory." (Al-Intiqaa, pg 246)

Views of other ulama regarding the status of Imam Abu Haneefah:

After discussing the allegations of the ulama against Imam Abu Haneefah we will discuss the views and statements of other ulama and contemporaries of Imam Abu Haneefah in order to get a better understanding of the status and rank of Imam Abu Haneefah.

1) Abdullah bin Mubarak (r.a.) mentioned:

"If Allah Ta`ala did not assist me through Abu Haneefah and Sufyan Thauri, My condition would have been the same as that of the rest of the people. (Tabyeed-us-Saheefah, pg 101)

2) In another place he (Abdullah bin Mubarak) states:

"By the qasm of Allah! Abu Haneefah was totally immersed in his pursuit for knowledge, abstained from unlawful things, followed the ulama of his era, only accepted that which was authentically recorded from Rasulullah (s.a.w.), had a very strong link with the science of naasikh and mansookh, searched for ahadeeth from reliable narrators and followed the latter practices of Rasulullah. Whatever haqq he found the Ahl-e-Kufah practising he followed that method and adopted that as his mazhab. Some people have criticised him, but we will remain silent with regards to them. We will seek Allah's forgiveness on their behalf. (Muqaddamah Aujaz-ul-Masalik, pg 58)

3) Yahya bin Sa`eed Al-Qattan who is an accepted personality in the field of Jarh and Ta`deel stated:

"We have not heard of opinions better than that of Abu Haneefah and we accept majority of his opinions," (Muqaddamah I`laa-us-Sunan, pg 14, vol 21)

4) He (Yahya bin Sa`eed) also mentioned:

"By the qasm of Allah! Abu Haneefah is the most knowledgeable person of the ummat with regards to the injunctions that have been conveyed to us from Allah Ta`ala and Rasulullah (s.a.w.)." (Abu Haneefah an-Nu`man li Wahbi Sulaiman, pg 183)

5) When the news of the demise of Imam Abu Haneefah reached Ibnu Juraij he recited 'inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raaji`oon'. He then expressed his remorse and said:

"i`lm (knowledge) has departed from our midst."

N.B. When the muhadditheen speak of i`lm they refer to the knowledge of hadith. (Tabyeed-us-Saheefah, pg 102)

6) Yazeed bin Haroon mentioned:

"I have met a thousand ulama of hadith and I recorded hadith from most of them. However, I have not seen anyone possessing more faqahat (understanding of deen), more fear for Allah and more knowledge (of Quran and hadith) than five people." He then named the five and the first was Imam Abu Haneefah. (Al-Intiqaa / Abu Haneefah an-Nu`man, pg 182)

7) Wakee` ibn Al-Jarrah used to issue fatawa according to the mazhab of Imam Abu Haneefah and he memorised the ahadeeth narrated from Imam Abu Haneefah some of which he had heard directly from Imam Sahib. (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 23)

8) Yahya bin Adam stated: "Nu`man had gathered all the ahadeeth of his city (Kufah). (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 21)

9) Al-Muhaddith Al-Faqeeh Muhammad bin Yusuf As-Saalihee mentioned:

"Abu Haneefah was among the greatest huffaz of hadith."

He has also established kathrah of hadith for Imam Abu Haneefah which means that Imam Abu Haneefah had many narrations. (Abu Haneefah An-Nu`man, pg 172)

10) Al-Imam Hafiz Zahabi, one of the greatest scholars in hadith of the past had compiled a kitab, Tabaqaat-ul-Huffaz wherein he makes mention of the various huffaz of hadith. In this book Imam Zahabi makes special mention of Imam Abu Haneefah and his two famous students, Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad. This indicates that Allamah Zahabi counted Imam Abu Hanefah from among the huffaz of hadith. (Abu Haneefah An-Nu`man, pg 181)

11) Imam Haakim an-Nishaapuri compiled a section regarding the famous reliable muhadditheen, in his kitab Ma`rifa-tu-U`loomil Hadith. Under the muhadditheen of Kufah, he mentions the name of Imam Abu Haneefah. (Ma`rifatu U`loomil Hadith, pg 323 - 329)

12) Ali ibnu Al-Madeeni stated:

"Thauri and Ibnu Al-Mubarak have narrated from him and he is thiqah (reliable). (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 22)

13) Israeel bin Yunus mentioned:

"What a pleasant person is Nu`man (Abu Haneefah). Nobody had memorised more ahadeeth containing aspects of fiqh than him." (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 21)

14) Imam Shu`bah mentioned:

"Wallahi! He (Imam Abu Haneefah) had a very good understanding and an excellent memory." (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 20)

15) Hasan bin Saalih mentioned:

"Abu Haneefah was acquainted with the field of naasikh and mansookh, knew the ahadeeth of the people of Kufah, very stringently followed the practise of the people of Kufah and memorised the ahadeeth that had been reported by the people of Kufah." (Minan-ur-Rahman, pg 21)

We will end our discussion with the statement of Hafiz Ibnu Hajar A`sqalani. Hafiz stated:

"It is better to leave out discussions of this nature (regarding the authenticity of the aimmah of the past) because Imam Abu Haneefah and those in his rank have crossed over the bridge. No person's criticism will affect their status. Instead, they hold an esteemed position which has been conferred to them by Allah, for they have been appointed as leaders. (Al-Jawahir wad-Durar, pg 946 - 947)

May Allah Ta`ala safeguard us from speaking ill of any great scholar of the past and may He grant us the ability to follow in the footsteps of these great personalities so that we may be successful. Aameen.

Wallahu a`lam

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 6th November 2010 09:00
abu mohammed wrote:
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Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
I am not from ahl e Hadith in terms of being a person that just pulls out a Hadith from bukhari and follows it without understanding its context etc




I dont understand...brother sohael says he is not from ahl hadith (i.e. ghayr muqallideen/salafi..) then why argue all these points? I may be termed a simpleton but a person who is a muqallid to one of the madhaahib then does it matter who said what about such matters as have been mentioned by the commenter?

One's aqeedah is all important and a muqallid of a madhab believes in the aqeedah of the ahlus sunnah wal jamaa'ah. Then where his/her everyday life is concerned whether it be tahaarat, salaat, hajj, nikah, talaq etc etc etc then one refers to the rulings of his/her madhab. So whats with all this debating in aid of? I think brothers here (who have been extremely patient and co operative so far) should avoid further discussions...i strongly feel such debates are often started deliberately and as i've often said before,very detrimental to one's Deen. Do we not have enough fitnah within the ummah to worry about and enough to deal with where the enemies of Islam are concerned?

In my experience when ghayr muqallideen sisters are bent on arguing and scoring points without having no knowledge whatsoever in even the basics of the Arabic language (let alone the various sciences of hadith, fiqh etc) its best to leave them to it. Those who are willing to learn and ask genuine questions are easily recognisable and i recomend reliable literature or refer them to Ulama who can advise and help them.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 6th November 2010 11:14
ummi taalib wrote:
Quote:
Sohael Wrote on 04/11/2010:
I am not from ahl e Hadith in terms of being a person that just pulls out a Hadith from bukhari and follows it without understanding its context etc [/quote]



I dont understand...brother sohael says he is not from ahl hadith (i.e. ghayr muqallideen/salafi..) then why argue all these points? I may be termed a simpleton but a person who is a muqallid to one of the madhaahib then does it matter who said what about such matters as have been mentioned by the commenter?

One's aqeedah is all important and a muqallid of a madhab believes in the aqeedah of the ahlus sunnah wal jamaa'ah. Then where his/her everyday life is concerned whether it be tahaarat, salaat, hajj, nikah, talaq etc etc etc then one refers to the rulings of his/her madhab. So whats with all this debating in aid of? I think brothers here (who have been extremely patient and co operative so far) should avoid further discussions...i strongly feel such debates are often started deliberately and as i've often said before,very detrimental to one's Deen. Do we not have enough fitnah within the ummah to worry about and enough to deal with where the enemies of Islam are concerned?

In my experience when ghayr muqallideen sisters are bent on arguing and scoring points without having no knowledge whatsoever in even the basics of the Arabic language (let alone the various sciences of hadith, fiqh etc) its best to leave them to it. Those who are willing to learn and ask genuine questions are easily recognisable and i recomend reliable literature or refer them to Ulama who can advise and help them.



I agree with you 100%.

But let me tell you of my experiance with these types of comments.

There have been some serious changes, and a few years back every one knew that the Salafis were the ones being spoken about and criticised all over the world.

I had noticed some changes in their ways so I then thought of this name for them as a means of satisfactio for me.

Ahl al-Sunnat al-Mansukha wa 'l-Tajdid.

This means the people of abrogated Sunnah and evolution.

The reason for this name was that I saw them making changes all the time, one day one opinion is stronger and the next day a different opinion was stronger. (figuratively speaking)

I was sent a link to watch with Dr. Zakir Naik where is asked the question of being Ahle Hadith, Wahabi, Salafi etc etc. He gave his normal misinterpritation of certain verses and mislead the audience. He came to the conclusion that he was none of the above, instead he was "just Muslim". then every body claps. Clear deception.

This is another form of Shiaism. Taqiyah!

So when I would see the brothers, it was apparent that they were no longer following the Hanafi school, I asked them and their reply was "Just Muslim". When I asked them if they were Salafi, the reply was a strong NO, when iasked them if they were Wahabi or Ahle Hadith, again the reply was a strong NO. They were following Quran and Sunnah directly.

This then prompted me to provide as much evidence as possible for every one to have access to as this fitna of Taqiya is spreading.

I started to gather all the stupid questions they would ask and provide people with the answers.

It is amazing, some of the questions they would ask, infact all of the questions they would ask were word to word text book questions. Alhumdulillah the Ulama have done some great work in this and have provided every single answer.

Back to the names.

I went to see a Mufti, whom I had asked about the name Ahl al-Sunnat al-Mansukha wa 'l-Tajdid. We was fumming, he said their first name was Najdi, then Wahabi, Then Ahale Hadith, Then Salafi and then I said "Just Muslim" and he replied NO, they have Hijacked the name Ahle Sunnah but notwith Wal Jama'ah.

This is why I had said in the post that I would get back to the name of Ahle Sunnah only.

But now it looks like they are under the guise of the Hanabila. Because every one knows about the Salafis. If they say they are Salafi, they will be mocked. Even by their parents.

This Mufti I had spoken told me that he has seen every single one of their books on their database, (its huge). that is where all the books are stored as data.
Alhumdulillah, he can refute their every point because that was his work.

When brother Muadh says that their numbers are dropping I hope its true, but if they disguise them selves as Hanbali then this fitna will get worse.
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