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You Have to Read 8 Rakats - Mufti AbdurRahman ibn Yusuf

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 13:06
Manuscript of Original Text and the Missing Text from Shaykh Albani (rh) Book on Taraweeh

Missing Text Highlighted in Yellow


Same Hadith, Same chain, Same wording but Vital Information missing from the Book of Taraweeh by Shaykh Albani (rh)


And as Wifaqul Ulama have tweeted "The story of the 8 Rakaats of Taraweeh"
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 14:06
salaamu alaykum,

Could you provide a brief summary of the above in English please? I understand some words are allegedly omitted but can you explain what it was supposed to have said and what the salafis/albani changed it to?

JazakAllah khayr
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:03
abu mohammed wrote:
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Just making clear that those texts are dealing with how many rakats Umar R.A. ordered to be prayed. This has nothing to do with the difference opinions regarding how much the Prophet Salalahu alayhi wasalam prayed. These differences existed prior to the modern day salafis.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:07
Concerned wrote:
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Where did Umar رضي الله عنه get the number 20 from?

Why were there no obections on the number of rakats?
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:13
I am sure ulama have dealt with that, I myself don't know, what i shared in this thread is sufficient for me to be open minded on the issue

www.shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=233

Read that link again to see that there was no agreement on how much the Prophet Salalahu alayhi wasalam prayed.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:13
SunniSeeker wrote:
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Please listen to the English version presented by Shaykh Riyadhul Haq in this blog post.

To save us both time, you can forward to 1 hour and 30 seconds
www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/392_23-08-2010/tarawe...

He goes throug the same Hadith in audio only.

The ommited part from Shaykh Albani's book is the part where the narrator admits his error and then the narrator, Muhammad ibn Yusuf says, "IN FACT, I SAY, DEFINITELY IT IS 21"
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:22
Concerned wrote:
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Quote:
Abdullah Ibn Abbas رضي الله عنه reported that: "During Ramadan, the Messenger (saw) performed 20 rak'ah salah as well as the witr salah without the congregation."

This hadith has been recorded by the following:

* Ibn Abi Shaybah (rh) in his Musannaf
* Imam Bayhaqi (rh) in his Sunan
* Tabraani (rh) in his Kabeer
* Ibn Adi (rh) in his Musnad
* Baghawi (rh) in his Majma Sahabah


abu mohammed wrote:
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:26
So you want me to start bringing all the hadith which show the Hanafi s pray wrong and have many errors in their madhab? Cause that's the road you are going down.

Sh Riyadul haq has himself said there is criticism directed at the hadith which shows the Prophet Salalahu alayhi wasalam prayed 20 , just like there is criticism regarding hadith that shows He s.a.w. prayed 8. Just because sh. Riyadul haq prefers the hadith of 20 doesn't mean the entire ummah agreed with him.
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:38

Watch the masterclass in deception of those who try to argue in this matter. Study their argument and their deception becomes manifest.

There are two separate arguments to be considered here:

  1. ARGUMENT ONE: What was the action of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and what is the strength of that narration?
  2. ARGUMENT TWO: What was the consensus of the Sahabah (RA)?

Shaykh Riyadul-Haq (HA) and others are students of Hadeeth and they are commenting on the (relative) strength and credibility of argument 1.

There is a difference between Academic discussion and (established) practise and those who wish to deceive the Ummah throw them in the same bag and then try to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Shaykh Riyadul-Haq (HA) and even Shaf’ae Ulama have never disputed with point two.

www.shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=233

During 'Umar's caliphate, the people started praying twenty collectively. No one from amongst the Sahabah contested this (i.e. ijma'). And considering this report, many maintain that twenty is recommended. Not just the Shafiyyah; in fact, Imam Tirmidhi says that this is the opinion of the majority of Ahl al-'Ilm.

In conclusion, according to the Shafi'i Madhhab, twenty rak'ahs for tarawih is recommended. And the scholars accept that there is nothing definitive to establish that number from the Prophet (upon him be peace). It not having a fixed number is even related from Imam Shafi'i by some of the As-hab al-Awjuh.

And Allah knows best.

Answered by Shaykh Yaqub Abdurrahman

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 15:43
Concerned wrote:
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They (the entire Ummah) did agree with what he (Sh R.Haq) is saying about 20 rakaat until about 200 years ago.

I understand what you are saying about the various opinions of each school etc and I accept that. But you categorically say that there is no Hadith - So I gave you one.

What you are doing is jumping around other schools to coincide with your understanding. What I have done is proven what those same schools said once upon a time.

No need to disect the Hanafi Madhab to pin point its errors, many have tried, for example Errors found in The Hanafi School
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 16:01
What I am saying is straight forward. I am going to post what the Maliki scholars say, and what a Shafi scholar say. Unless a Maliki or a Shafi proves that these quotes are misrepresenting the madhab, then seeing that these opinions are valid within the 4 madhabs, I will stick to my view that it would be incorrect to make such a big deal if someone prays less than 20, and to make it seem as if the modern day salafis are the first to come up with this idea of praying lesss than 20. Unless these quotes are proven to be a misrepresentation, then you would also be saying that the other madhabs got it wrong, and that their followers should abandon their madhab and the interpretation of the ulama of their madhab, and instead follow the hanafi madhab and the interpretation of the hanafi ulama of the other madhab.

The Matter is simple, if the ulama below are "masterclass at deception", and are "deceiving the Ummah and trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat", then I will change my view. We were having a polite discussion, and now its turning into one with insults and accusations.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=227666174388142&subst...

Quote:
HOW MANY RAK'AH (UNITS) OF TARAWIH SHOULD WE PREFORM?
There are two areas which we must examine, both areas have different rulings related to them: 1) The Masjid; 2) the home.
🕌 THE MASJID 🕌
The Mashhūr (dominant view) within the Mālikī Madhab is that 20 Rak’ahs of Tarāwīḥ should be established by the Imām of the Masjid, along with 3 Rak'ahs of Witr. Those who are following the Imām are not required to stay throughout all 23 Rak’ahs, rather they are allowed to conclude their prayer when it is comfortable to do so. It is also a lesser-held view within the Madhab that 36 Rak’ahs of Tarāwīḥ should be established by the Imām of the Masjid.
🏠 THE HOME 🏠
The one who is preforming the Tarāwīḥ prayer by themselves at home should establish 10 Rak’ahs of Tarāwīḥ and 3 Rak’ahs of Witr according to the view of Imām Mālik ibn Anas. It is, however, permissible according to the Madhab for one to pray as many Rak’ahs of Tarāwīḥ at home as they'd like.
[Source: Sharḥ al-Kabīr by Imām Aḥmad ibn Aḥmad ad-Dardīr al-Mālikī].[/quote]

Ustadh Abdus Shakoor Brooks:
Quote:
"According to the Maliki School 20 rakahs is the practice to be upheld in the mosque that the Imam should perform. As for the number of rakah's *an individual praying behind the imam* should perform, then whatever amount is easy for him (no specific number, although more is better). Remember the objective of Tarāwīh is to seek Allāh's forgiveness and have sins removed: let's not get so caught up in the "numbers" debate. To each their own."

"Reciting the entire Qurān in Tarāwīh according to Imam Mālik is not sunnah period. Although Khatm of Qurān is Sunnah in general it is not part of the Sunnah of Tarāwīh specifically."

"36 is not the relied upon view in the Maliki school."
https://twitter.com/AShakurBrooks/status/739400382661660673

Shaykh Isa Johansson, who is a Shafi writes on facebook:
[quote] " It is ok to pray 8, or any number. You can pray it at home or the masjid, alone or in jama'ah. And there is no sin if you leave it. And Allah knows best."

"There are a wide range of opinions on the matter, and not a discussion fit for this forum (but I will upload a recording for our Matn Abi Shuja' class). The reality is that the Prophet (صلى الله تعالى عليه وآله وسلم) is recorded to have prayed 11 and 13 raka'at, but never 20. However, 20 did become established practice during the era of the Sahaba, which shows that there is flexibility, as it is from the general nawafil (qiyam l-layl), which were left open. Hence, 8, 20, 36 etc. were performed, and they were prayed at home or in the masjid, individually or in jama'ah, and all of that has basis. And Allah knows best."



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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 16:04
Where did I categorically say that there is no Hadith, i said there is no agreement on the number of rakas, there are hadith showing various numbers, and ulama differed regarding their authenticity.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 16:30

Concerned wrote:
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Deception continues…

Taraweeh is done at the Masjid as established by the Sahabah-e-Kiraam (RA) as 20 Rakaat and it is the opinion of all of the Scholars being quoted so far.

It has been an stablished practise of the Muslim Ummah for over 1200 years. While engaged in (practise) the Ulama of this Ummah engaged in Academic discussions about the number of Rakaat.

Taraweeh is not an obligation to begin with so if a person leaves after 5 rakaat (in the middle and actually) breaks his Salah there is no penalty and no punishment for such an extreme action.

What is being muddled here to begin with bringing our rulings when Taraweeh is being done (privately) and the consequences of leaving without doing 20.

All in all throw as many issues as possible into the mix, muddle them all, cloud the judgement of the Ummah and them present the muddled view and confuse the masses.

What is being muddled here to begin with bringing our rulings when Taraweeh is being done (privately) and the consequences of leaving without doing 20.

As usual a single saying of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam) settles the matter for the laymen which is that the Sunnah is:

  1. Pray in congregation
  2. Start with the Imam
  3. Finish with the Imam

He (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said: When a man prays with an imam till he goes he is reckoned as having spent a whole night in prayer. [Abu Daud].

The question then becomes what should you do if the Imam is doing 8 Rakaat?  If you are a Muqallid, you have done Taqleed. If you have knowledge of the matter or trust in your Ulama then use your judgement.

Concerned wrote:
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Ulama are differing on the actual Rakaat prayed by Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and their relative authenticity but they are not disputing with the (established) practice in congregation with Tawattur.

But I guess there is no solution to deceptively adding 2 + 2 and making it equal 5.

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 16:34
Concerned wrote:
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Okay, so I accept you didn't say it "categorically", and I apologies for that, BUT You quoted Shaykh Isa Johansson (twice now)
Quote:
The reality is that the Prophet (صلى الله تعالى عليه وآله وسلم) is recorded to have prayed 11 and 13 raka'at, but never 20.

So I gave you the Hadith.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 16:36
The above Maliki quotes clearly state that the follower may leave taraweeh when he is comfortable. The Maliki Facebook page also explains what to do if the imam only reads 8 followed by witr, and one wants to read 20.
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