Eid 2015: The Day Deobandees abandon Deoband

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 11:21

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Eid Mubarak to you whichever day you are having Eid, Insha’Allah.

Had a very long and interesting conversation with some Brothers last night while the Chicago Hilal vs other organisations (discussion) was still evolving.
We have a number of Deobandi Brothers & Sisters (Masha’Allah), who live, eat, drink and breathe Deoband all day, 365 days a year but when it comes to Ramadhan & Eid they abandon Deoband and forget about it entirely.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 16:24

Salam

I just wish people could unite over differences and fiqhi ikhtelaaf, same dispute arises every year and it get's silly.

In my local locality it got so bad, that the brealvi mosque a few roads away has apparently declared all deobandis doing eid today as KAFIR !!

In the Jumma speech the imam had to mention about this issue as everyone is making a big thing out of it now, saying oh how can you fast on eid, muslims aren't united, why are they following someone else, the moon was seen there but not here blah blah

Imam ( maulana farhan IDA graduate ) said both views are valid, so no neither to bicker aimlessly and there is khair in ikhtelaaf for the ummah, we have many mosques in this country today, they were also formed out of ikhtelaaf, back then people were saying Astagfirullah so and so doesn't get along with so and so and this is Allah's house and they went and formed other mosques, and a result today we have countless number of mosque's spread all over the UK. He quoted the classical example of Banu Quraidah, and that Rasoolalah (saw)

said to the Sahaba to march there and pray Asar, some understood it as to pray on the way and some understood as it, as to pray on arriving there, both differed but both were right.

Imam said only difference is difference of our hearts that's all and us not being accommodating.

Walahu'Alam
( a short quick summary from me on todays events)

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 17:04

Jinn wrote:

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Respectfully disagree and I am in no position to give Fatwaas on others Eid and I won't.

But the Ulama are Justifying an issue because they have the need to protect their Hazrats.

It is the Job of Ulama to sit together and resolve the problem or at least discuss and agree to disagree.

There have been many meetings organised to try to resolve this and they don't turn up. They claim to be neutral yet consciously stoke the fire (example Batley)...

After spending a decade looking at this issue, I have no qualms in admitting that Ulama are the issue!

Maulana Saleem Dhorat openly, clearly and publicly states that Saudi Arabia has problems and then turns around and follows them. There are Ulama who clearly make these statements and then act on the error.

Difference of opinion would have been Local vs Global this issue is Local vs Error!

In America ChicagoHilal overode the decision of and humiliated Deobandees in America anf Canada, over what? 6 or so Witnesses and they chose to override consensus of so many Muftees and Ulama? Who gave them the right to do that and under what Authority?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 17:07

There is clear, consistent and established moon sighting system in UK versus almost every Darul-uloom has given a Fatwa against Saudia.

How does abandoning a Shariah compliant system and following a condemned (known) error-ridden system become a difference of opinion???

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 17:19

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Fair enough brother.

Why are the Ulema the issue brother ? Why aren't they accommodating in this issue ?

Yes it can be resolved, but every year it just turns into a another joke.

Up north I believe wifaqul ulema have more of a following then compared to down south, London etc

Plus I've also heard that the issue is mostly with committees refusing to budge, but still the question remains why can't ulema unite on this issue ?

Another issue is Eidgah's and Eid salah being done in open grounds...brothers every year go and hire their own grounds for this and you see many deobandis absent from this sunnah/refusing to even acknowledge it.however I guess that's another topic for another thread.

In London virtually all the big Ulema follow the 18 degree masa'ala personally, however they won't say nothing about it in the mosques they represent, why ? In fact when we get jamaats from up north who come in Ramadan we find all are doing the fast sehri times according to 18 degrees masa'ala, here we have guys from families accompany us in khurooj and they all follow the masa'ala however no word from them on this issue, despite representing masajid and they turning to them for fiqh related issues.

Walahu'Alam

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 17:39

In America ChicagoHilal overode the decision and humiliated Deobandees in America anf Canada, over what? 6 or so Witnesses and they chose to override consensus of so many Muftees and Ulama? Who gave them the right to do that and under what Authority?

thank you. a lot of people are poking fun at Hilal Committee of Toronto and Crescent Committee of Canada....what's even worse is many Canadian Deobandi masajid who follow Hilal decided to follow Chicago/Cali....even though I know some of them for sure have no idea what's going on there. These are the same people who look down on those who follow Saudi or even global sighting.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 19:20

Jinn wrote:

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I swear by Allah that it has to do with Ulama!

Why so they capitulate? Why don't they resign and leave when matters are taken which are against Shariah?

This is UK! You don't have to remain an Imam, retrain yourself or eat from Dole money but why Capitulate???

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 19:27

kanzoorbhai wrote:

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All these Ulama live in the same country and are pretty such in similar timezones and YET none of them could pick up the Phone and work out issues and clearly, candidly show what happened...

Canadians are left to getting their Tweets hacked, tweeting pictures of hald written reasons....Its a Debacle of highest order...

I am fasting otherwise I would use even stronger language.

In Pakistan, ONE Deobandi Mufti in Peshawar is continuously overiding the decisions of ENTIRE Deobandi/Barelwee/Ghair-Muqallid population of 190+ million Muslims and getting away with it. He is accepting witnesses when the Moon is not born or set before the sun or cannot be see (absolutely and positively) simply because like Chicago Hilal he (thinks) that he can override facts with 6 witnesses!

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 21:05

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I guess most are perhaps just trying to keep the peace......

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 21:11

Jinn wrote:

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Flawed Saudi Moon Sighting (99.99% Ulama agree, even those who follow it)
WifaqulUlama (monthly), consistent, in line with Practise of Ulama & Mashaykh

How does acting on 1 becoming a "valid" difference of opinion?

(Valid) Global Sighting
WifaqulUlama (monthly), consistent, in line with Practise of Ulama & Mashaykh

This 1 & 2 is a "valid" difference of opinion

Don't you agree? Which Laymen and Which Committee created the (1st) 1 & 2? I have read all the original agreements NOT A SINGLE LAYMAN has signed it, so how are LAYMEN responsible, explain to me please?

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 21:37

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I guess it's refusal to acknowledge that the Saudi moon sighting is false/flawed/wrong, for years in this very country we refused to do it with the braelvis as they often did it with Pakistan, deobandi masajid told its musallees that we follow Morocco as its the nearest Islamic country and as a non muslim country we follow the nearest islamic one, and they follow Saudi. So for years everyone believed this and everyone would wait for news from Saudi, if they didn't hear nothing from Saudi then they would wait on Morocco to see if they sighted anything. However now wifaqul ulema have come out, their work has expanded and more and more people are aware of their findings and disagreement with hizbul ulema and their methods, but people/ulema have failed to unite on this or what the truth is for whatever reason it may be, even just mere ease.

In essence brother, seems like this issue has nothing to do with fiqh, seems like more of a political committee issue ? No one wants to be in-correct or out of line ? No one wants to budge from old methods that have been proven redundant.

I really don't know bro and that's the truth. But if Ulema don't team up then I don't think nothing will come out from this.

Walahualam

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 17th July 2015 21:52

A deobandi scholar posted this on social media saying : good article addressing moon controversies

muslimmatters.org/2010/08/10/retread-yasir-qadhi-on-under...

Might be worth a read, will read as well shortly.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 18th July 2015 07:20

Unfortunate state of UK deobandees :(

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 18th July 2015 09:24

Jinn wrote:

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Jinn wrote:

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Yasir Qadhi wrote:

Firstly, just for the record, in my humble opinion the strongest fiqh position, independent of other factors (see below), seems to be that we should follow a visual sighting within North America. If one trustworthy Muslim physically sees the moon, and it was seen at a time when we know from astronomical data that it was born and possible to see, then such a sighting should be accepted for all Muslims of this continent.

WifaqulUlama does this every month, Alhumdolillah.

hmdsalahuddin wrote:

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Nothing wrong with us, man.

Hazrat sees a dream and we spread it within 15 minutes from London to Chennai; thats pretty good network :-)

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2015 06:55

pretty astounding how much fitna one mischievous youngster caused...

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Eid 2015: The Day Deobandees abandon Deoband

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