17
Jul
2015

Eid 2015: The Day Deobandees abandon Deoband

17th July 2015

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Eid Mubarak to you whichever day you are having Eid, Insha’Allah.

Had a very long and interesting conversation with some Brothers last night while the Chicago Hilal vs other organisations (discussion) was still evolving.
We have a number of Deobandi Brothers & Sisters (Masha’Allah), who live, eat, drink and breathe Deoband all day, 365 days a year but when it comes to Ramadhan & Eid they abandon Deoband and forget about it entirely.

  1. A number of British Deobandees abandon not only abandon Darul-uloom Deoband but Darul-uloom Saharunpur and almost every other Major Darul-uloom. Instead of clear cut Fatawa of these Darul-ulooms rejecting Saudi Sighting for Britain they send you half paragraphs of Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) selected Fatwaas to justify following Saudi Arabia
  2. A number of Canadian & American Deoandees abandon the Fatwa of Darul-uloom Deoband & others that Astronomical Sightings CAN BE USED to reject “impossible sightings” in order to bend, stretch and somehow find a way to unite with Modernists (no sighting but Calculation used), Saudi Salafees (follow Saudia). They look through every nook and corner to somehow find a way to UNITE with rest of the Muslims. Clear (recent) Fatwaas are ignored and selected excerpts are produced about “mass sightings” and the numbers (which comprise these mass sightings) are justified from various sayings and Malfoozat

The reason I write it this morning is that there is a massive movement amongst the Deobandees to abandon saying “Eid Mubarak” and say “Taqabbal Allaahu minna wa minkum (May Allaah accept (this worship) from us and from you)” since it is proven from the Sahabah (RA). You will read about this everywhere and get messages on WhatsApp etc.

A bigger practise of Sahabah is to get their Ramadhan/Eid correct!

It’s hilarious that you have people with Forums names, facebook & twitter handles & youtube channels like “Azmat-e-Deoband”, “Shan-e-Deoband”, “ Deoband Zindabad” turn around and clearly abandon Deoband when it comes to Moon Sighting :P

So is Deoband alive these days?

Yes on Twitter Handles & Yotube Channels, Alhumdolillah

KNOW that there are little (to no)  Problems in India/Pakistan Deoband affiliated institutes because they combine Science & Fiqh effectively and use it together. The issues are in Britain, Canada & America because of their divergence and abandoning Deoband


 

posted by Muadh_Khan on 17th July 2015 - 4 comments

4 Comments

Faisal Naeem wrote on 17 Jul 2015
Br Muadh,

Assalmu alaikum.

I have known you since your days on sunniforum. I used to be there also. You probably dont know me. I want to get in touch with you to get a better understanding of what is going on with chicagohilal/hilalcommittee.

I am part of a masjid admin here in austin, tx. Amongst five masajid in the city we are the only one which relies upon "local" sighting. This is the third year in a row that we have been stumped by the last minute decision changes of chicagohilal.

We are left with going to crescentwatch or just going global, since that is what "local" has been reduced to anyway. Let me know how I can talk to you. I just need to understand if these decisions are being done under pressure, your blogpost seems to imply.

Jazak Allah Khair
Faisal
Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam, I don't have any concrete information but it is clear from Social Media that unity is becoming a factor so there is enormous pressure to somehow united with ISNA & Saudi followers. Chicago Hilal clearly state that they will reject Science in favor of Mass Sightings, what is that number we don't know and neither has Fiqh set a definitive number: www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Acts-of-Worship/monthly-moon-sighting-islamic-months.html ...I don't have an inside scope but you can sure email me on the site
 
Acacia wrote on 17 Jul 2015
Waalaikumussalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu:

I was thoroughly confused last night. At first, though convinced, was worried about the timing since North America is such a huge landmass. Then, as conflicting yet seemingly valid news came out, including a post that later turned out to be false (reportedly hacked), was even more confused. I decided to follow the one mosque in the city that says they follow hilal sightings and they held off on their announcement until later but declared Eid today, Friday. With that, I decided to go with Friday since I am not an expert in the field and the skies were overcast and it was raining heavily.

I can't express my disappointment in the morning when detailed explainanations were offered as to why it was not Friday but rather, Saturday. I take today as a fast to be made up inshaallah, may Allah Ta'aala accept from us all. Ameen.

Question that keeps popping in my mind though... I get that there is fatwa from to accept science to rule out impossible sightings but... can't that science be flawed too if not for any other reason than pure human error? I was looking at the Crescent Moon Visibility chart and it is date stamped Thursday, July 16, 2015 but more importantly, it is time stamped 1:24:18 (in the afternoon). I wonder what the parameters were at around 9-10 p.m. mountain and or pacific time? Is there any way to capture an image showing the parameters at the time crescent sightings were being reported off the westcoast. It would fall within science then... or, am I missing a crucial point about these charts? Any clarification would be appreciated.

JazakAllah khayran. Wa'assalaam,

Acacia
Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam, Moon below the Danjon Limit cannot be sighted it is an absolute fact! What is this Danjon Limit that differs. Dr Bernard Yallop (British Royal Greenwich Observatory), South African Scientists sets it at 7.5 degrees, Shaukat Khalid (www.moonsighting.com) around 7 and Mohammad Odeh (ICOP) at 6.5 degrees. Central-Mosque.com uses Pictures using Odeh Visibility Criteria (the lowest possible sighting criteria). Many Scientists disagree with anything lower then 7.5 degrees. The reason Odeh Visibility Criteria is lower is because they have included a few record breaking sightings which (other) Scientists disagree with. California sightings need to be advertised, which Criteria did they use? How many Muslims did the sighting? HOW was the sighting done? We have NOTHING about this whatsoever! If ChicagoHilal are confident let them reveal the facts
 
Contrarian wrote on 18 Jul 2015
When the calculations conflict with sighting it is the calculations that are wrong and not the sighting. Let alone that we are to commanded to sight and not calculate in this matter and subjecting the sighting to calculation of any sort is in fact resorting to calculation and not sighting.

Saying that the astronomers agreed or disagreed over an angle or a time or location is utterly worthless for the command is clear that sighting is the method.

This move to give the astronomers calculations any consideration is just another creeping of the scientific method in Islam. This is no different to the Ulama in the past making the dreadful mistake of using logic and its use creeping in to Islam and the devastating effects on Islamic thinking. Do this long enough and repeatedly enough and you will find people using scientific method in matters of Aqaid. Have we forgotten the Mu'tazila and their use of logic? Do we want a repeat of it with evolution theory for example?

It seems our Ulama didn't learn the lesson of the past and are doomed to repeat them by using modes of thinking that are foreign to Islam without understand the limitations of these modes of thinking.

So this among the reasons why fatawa saying we can use calculations are to be disregarded. The calculations are speculative and pretend to be definitive. They always were and are so now. I repeat subjecting sighting to calculation is resorting to calculation as it gives calculation the final word. This is before we get to the point that observation trumps calculation or it should in scientific disciplines.

Such fatawa are yet another fulfilment of the hadith of following Ahl al-Kitab in to the lizards hole. The Jews abandoned sighting for calculation and today some of our Ulama are doing the same. Haram does not turn in to halal overnight. It is done in creeping moves like this. So it starts by subjecting sighting to calculation and ends with calculation being used exclusively.

This is before we get to the moon being sighted in multiple countries. Never mind Saudi only. I don't understand this obsession with Saudi. The moon sighting reports are usually numerous across multiple countries. This should at least set alarm bells ringing that maybe the calculations don't mean much in this matter.

It's a matter of judging the news about the sighting only. Calculations should not and must not be brought in to the matter.

Nevertheless, we need to live in the real world and realise that there will be multiple Eids. This is often due to Deobandi's not wanting to appear out of step with the Barelwi majorities in their towns and cities so they go with the flow on the basis of "unity". The Barelwis are known to use calendars and calculations - confirmed to me many years ago by the son of a Barelwi masjid committee member who was unhappy at this use and he told me it was decided at a national level in the UK - and do not even bother to mention moon sighting except to dispute that the moon could be sighted. Again subjecting sighting to calculation and giving calculation the final word.

You can verify this be getting Barelwi masjid time tables and comparing the start and end dates of Ramadan. They are almost never wrong about the start of Ramadan and Eid. Indeed most Barelwis are not even aware of the moon sighting matter. They only know to follow the timetable.

At least our Deobandi masses are aware of the issue of the moon being sighted. Resorting to calculations is a move away from this and will do nothing for the level of Islamic knowledge in our communities.
Blogger's Reply:
Shaykhul-Hadeeth of Darul-uloom Deoband Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palunpuri (HA) has discussed the matter in his commentary of Jami Tirmidhi (Vol3/Pages 53-56) and disagrees with you. Mufti Taqi Usmani (HA) has discussed the matter and disagrees with you on his website. Shaykh (Maulana)Salman Nadwi (HA) of Nadwatul-Ulama has discussed the matter (in Arabic) at Ebrahim College (London) and disagrees with you. Are we supposed to make Taqleed of these top Ulama of the 3 most renowned Darul-ulooms (in the world) or you on the usage of Astronomical Calculations?
 
Lateef ur rahman wrote on 19 Jul 2015
السلام عليكم


In California the moon was sighted in three areas Lodi ca San Francisco ca and San Diego ca
Lodi California Molana Hammad and 4 of his relatives ( all males ) have sighted
San Francisco molana fasih khwaja and 9 others brothers including imam of masjid
San Diego 1 brother his daughter and wife have sighted

JazakAllah Khair
Blogger's Reply:
W-Salam: www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Civil/california-moon.html...And these sightings were rejected by a number of Ulama, experts and organizations; please complete your description, InshaAllah...Sighting is a physical process and in terms of Fiqh (being a Maulana or Mureed of a Shaykh or wife of Maulana) may carry some weight but in terms of Science it has no extra merit unless you can tell us something. The Fatwa of Ulama of Deoband is that Astronomical Data can be used to negate impossible sightings; the Ulama of Chicago & California are in conflict with the practice and Fatwa of Ulama of Deoband...Jzk
 
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