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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 09:08

london786 wrote:
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I shall be the happiest person if men with taqwa rule us. But that looks impossible now. Even the followers of religious shaykh won't dream that the shuyookh will be ruling them. We are listening of politics and religion through JI leaders for 60 odd years. But they themselves have given up. So let us be practical.

But till we get pious rulers.

We shall be happy if the rulers take guidance from the shuyookh, not from the west like it happened during Gen k@lb musharraf. He hated the ulema the most.

Think of a scenario when padri and Imran take over power. Real chaos. Imran will move the youth towards west (hours of  DJ music during inquilab reflects that) and padri will push bidah and shirk. 

We would be happy when we have rulers like Gen Zia ul Haq. He had the most respect for Ulema-e-haq and was acting on their mashwarah.

And to run a country Piety is not the only factor.

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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 09:57

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Islam entered Indian masses through the Auliya-Allah and it was Tassawuff and the Akhlaaq of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) which won our hearts and souls and not theology. In fact, Indian Muslims for 1000+ years have NEVER given the upper hand to religious clergy. In Pakistan in the 1970’s and then towards the end of 1990’s the people overwhelmingly votes for religious parties and within one cycle replaced them with Secular/Atheist parties.

Ulama won't win power in Pakistan politically as things stand; no chance! 

Here is very good analysis of the situation.

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 10:03
We all need to remember one thing and be cautious with our actions because



Does that make sense to you?
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 10:28

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I agree with khan sahib.

I recall the saying of Dr. Nadir Ali Khan DB (many times he has quoted this). 

"eis mein bahas naheen hai ke zameen per kiss ki hukoomath hai, eh dekho diloen per kiski hukomath hai, Mohammadrurrasoolullah Salallahu alayhi wa sallam ki".

This I have witnessed during janazah of political leaders and Janazah of Shuyookh, Wallah!!    No comparison, people in tears, a big load of footwear left after the janazah procession, people in semi-conscious mode running without footwear. And in dua after burial, they would not have cried so loudly in janazah of their nears and dears. The death of the shuyookh is never conveyd through media and within hours, a large crowd from round the globe gathers.

So that is the love people have for their shuyookh.

And in janazah of political leaders, majority is hired crowd.

And another thing;

 Rulers and monarch always bowed before Auliya Allah, never the other way. 

And during confrontation, Auliya always won; "Hunooz Dilli dhoor Asth" "Abhi dilli dhoor hai".

So  present scenario demand that let us work towards "Bottom to top approach" and it is working,;  "Top to bottom approach" can go parallel.  Revolution can install leaders, but as the shaykh said "When you have junaid baghdadi as your ruler and the public is razeel, nothing will work".

Wallahu A'alam

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 10:36

In India, the actions of Hindu fanatic political leaders who get  power using their religion make the local hindus distance themselves from their religion. "subah mein ram ram,shaam mein sharaab sau gram"

Hope that will not happen in Pakistan. Deen badnaam honay na paaye.

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 11:40

Slightly expanded...

www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3749_18-09-2014/imran-k...

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Disclaimer: I don't support Nawaz Shareef or any other individual or party currently embroiled in power struggle with Imran Khan but I do support the religion of Allah (SWT) and its implementation in Pakistan (in its true and pristine form) which is long overdue!

Inqilaab (revolution) needs an idea:

The term Inqilaab (revolution) is worn out when used in the context of Pakistan. Anything and everything is called an “Inqilaab”, we need an “Inqilaab” to solve the power crisis, we need an “Inqilaab” to solve the illiteracy issues, the Chief Justice will bring “Inqilaab” by providing cheap, speedy and efficient justice….etc etc etc.

Anyone can claim an “Inqilaab” by brining 1 million men on the streets (in reality these are usually 5-10,000 men at best but who’s counting!)

Pakistan needs Islam:

When looking through the prism of history an “Inqilaab” always has a revolutionary idea behind it. The creation of Pakistan had the powerful idea of Islam and asserting the Islamic identity of Muslims. This powerful idea drove (and united) the Muslims of India and culminated in the creation of Pakistan because it was felt that a (Muslim) state was needed to implement Islam. If the practise of Islam was mere rituals then there would have been no need for Pakistan, in fact Muslims of India have most of their ritualistic practises protected under Indian constitution and with the posts of Qadhees are much more flexible and adaptable to life under Islamic Shariah.

When we look at Imran Khan we find no revolutionary idea behind the “Inqilaab”. He is the least corrupt(able), best of the options but there is no big idea (no powerful) revolutionary force. He does pay lip Service to Islam but there is neither knowledge, practice or implementation of Islam in either him or his party, you have to be blind not to see that.

Majority of Pakistanees have deeply held allegiance to Islam (although practise may be lacking) but the fervour and the passion for Islam is self-evident. This majority will NEVER accept Imran Khan and neither is Imran claiming to bring about Shariah (or Islam). So this galvanising, powerful revolutionary force is lost (as a motivational tool).

Imran Khan is undermining civil authority and institutes:

That leaves us with Secularism. Nawaz Shareef’s Government was elected by democratic means and brining a mob to the capital to hold a knife at the country’s jugular is an affront to democratic traditions. Nawaz Shareef Government should be allowed to complete its term (as per constitution of Pakistan) otherwise the tradition of “mob hustle with muscle” will continue in Pakistan.

If there is a problem with the performance of democratically elected Government then civil institutes particularly the legislative and judicial branches should be engaged. Bypassing them, upsets the balancing forces of democracy and gives rise to autocracy and dictatorship. Imran Khan should work to strengthen the civil institutes of Pakistan to withstand and bring to justice the abuse of power not bring mob to the streets and hustle for change! If Imran Khan can hustle a democratically elected government out of power then so can XYZ when Imran Khan is in power this “mob culture and tactics” of usurping power must stop!

Imran Khan may yet succeed in bringing down the Shareef Government but it won’t be because of “Inqilaab” but because of lack of a better choice!

Pakistani people deserve better then to merely pick the least evil. In fact they should demand better! But that will require a “Inqilaab” and since majority are Muslim and have deeply held (unshakeable) convictions about Islam lets really give Islam a try and not pay lip service.

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 12:10
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Well I have done my fair share of research on the current political situation. The issue of Imam Hussain (RA) was a totally different one to the present day scenario.

I delivered a detailed lecture, with lots of references, a few days ago. Hazrat Mufti Rizwan (RA) has recently written a 700-page long fatwa on politics and bhaghawat. Suffice to say, the actions of Imran Khan come under bhaghawat according to jamhoor fuqha and muhadditheen.
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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 12:17

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Mufti Saheb (HA),

There is nothing Islamic in Imran Khan or his party or his Dharna to actually try to analyse his actions as "Baghawat" but why has this common sense escaped Junaid Jamshaid who publicly backed him on TV a day or so ago.

 

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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 12:25
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Junaid Jamshed is a celebrity, and lots of his actions are against the Sharia. His actions are not hujjat. And secondly, this new version of "Soft Tableegh" is not in line with the usool set by Maulana Ilyaas (RA), that just to win the hearts of the people, one does all sorts of munkarat.
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 12:58
That's what made me ask here, because I am seeing quite religious minded people supporting and hoping for Imran Khan's success. IK and Qadri sahab's characters seemed dodgy to me from the beginning. I wonder if religious people get so easily deceived and hyped, then who will be saved from the deception of Dajjal? May Allah ta'ala save us all.
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 13:35

Abu_Bilal wrote:
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You know that this is not a realistic response. Junaid Jamshaid has access to loads of Ulama and there is no possible way that he will come on National TV and simply make his own Ijtehaad, he has enough Taqwa not to jeopardise his Aakhira.

 

Which means he is consulting Ulama who disagree with you and Mufti Rizwan (HA) and 700 pages of research.

This excuse of Bhagawat (rebellion) is the biggest political football used in Islamic history, Ulama loyal to certain fractions used this to issue Fatwa…Saudi Ulama have been using it to issue Fatwas against those who oppose the Royal family since 1926. The fundamental issue is that Nawaz Sahreef and Muslim league (although supported by Darul-uloom Karachi) are neither Islamically elected, nor Islamically accountable nor Islamically minded so where does the question of Bhagawat (rebellion) come from? Do Ulama in Pakistan now recognise elections as a viable and Sharia accountable vehicle for ascendency to power? In that case is Nawaz Shareef the legitimate Islamic Haakim of Pakistan which implies that his Hukum will override the Fatwaas of Ulama (as a Haakim).

If your assessment and research is correct then to counter the narrative present your argument in a way that people can read and understand (if not agree).

The Shariah injunction of his rallies (music, free mixing etc) is clear but there is no need to ascribe it to Baghawat (rebellion). Your ascription to Baghawat (rebellion) is based on Ijtehaad while clear violations of Islamic commands is a certainty so why not highlight the certainty?

Abu_Bilal wrote:
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 18th September 2014 23:32
Again all i see is making this whole thing too philosophical. Its a very straight forward situation we should just stick to the reality and the context.

Pakistani society lives and breath on music, this is the sad state of affairs. In Pakistani society at all venues , there are free mixing of opposite genders, save the Masajid or deeni majalis.

The issue at hand is NOTHING more than this, that PML and PPP and other lot have been using and abusing PAkistan for decades now. Imran Khan genuinely cared about Pakistan atleast, the day to day well being and system of the country and its people. He gets into the Politics to try to make a change, to benefit the common masses and people of Pakistan. And now he has pushed all these corrupt parties against the wall. This was a much needed thing, to bring some balance in the political seen.

All other parties have actually been into power, including the infamous MMA, which was combination of all Religious parties, they ruled KPK and they turned out to be corrupt and showed the people of PAkistan that religious parties are as corrupt and power hungry as the non-religious ones. Hence, the people have lost all faith in Islamic Political parties. They did nothing for the province, Imran has still made visible and proven changes in KPK.

So Imran Khan's mission has nothing to do with shariah or Islam, all he wants to do is to bring some justice, accountability and integrity into the current system. Which islamic text or scholars says, this is a bad cause and one should not work for it?

again the argument that he is not very islamic is useless...because no one is Islamic anyways, Nawaz sharif is looting the people, zardari is looting the people.....whats the problem if someone wants to stop this.....

Islam??? lets be real, right now islam is not an agenda for any political party...not even JUI.....so lets keep this in context....talk about currently, which leader is offering something better for Pakistani system. When there is no Hope in Nawaz Shareef and No hope in Zardari, then whats the problem with someone who atleast wants to bring some accountability and integrity in the system....

Islam will come when the hearts of the people change for it....untill then do not expect any shariah coming into the country out of "THIN AIR".....

Above all , Zardari and Nawaz are mental slaves and have slaves like tendency....Imran Khan has no mental slavery tendency and will not compromise the honor of his people at the hands of America.....

Some one mentioned about Dajjal or something, its such a naive statement....get this out of your head. No one thinks Imran Khan is the savior promised messiah to bring the people out of darkness into the light...he is just a political party in the pakistani poltical scene which is now trying to bring some change and for this they are taking some extreme measures which no one in the past has been able to do.....

"thora hilna julna parhta hai kam karnay kay liya"

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2014 05:16
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1. Junaid Jamshed mainly consults the Ulema of Darul Uloom Karachi (Mufti Taqi Usmani & Others) for his religious masaayl. And whatever i wrote about "bhaghawat", the ulema of Darul Uloom Karachi hold exactly the same viewpoint. And just to make one thing more obvious, a lot of stuff that Junaid Jamshed does on TV is not approved by Darul Uloom Karachi Ulema either. (and just to clear one thing, i also come from a Thanvi background, and i am a part of Darul Uloom Karachi). And just for your information, Mufti Rizwan (RA) and Mufti Taqi Usmani (RA) are on same frequency, and both exchange their views regularly. Infact Mufti Rizwan's book is mainly based on Hazrat Thanwi's and Mufti Taqi's writings on politics.

2. You need to do more reading on the issue of Islam and Politics, since you do not seem to have enough information. The government of Nawaz Sharif (even if elected through rigging, and bad politics) is still a "valid" and "legal" government according to Sharia, and Quran and Sunnah are crystal clear that "the ruler of a Muslim country should be obeyed in every possible scenario". And your opinion about Ulema, using the term "bhaghawat" for their own interests is nothing more than a joke. Allah's wrath be upon me, if i am even 1% loyal to the current Nawaz Sharif regime. Infact, i asked my followers to vote for Imran Khan in the last election (and that bayaan is still on the Internet).

3. Yes, there is a need to ascribe his actions to "bhaghawat", because that is exactly what he is doing. And it is not "my own" ijtehad. Quran and Sunnah, and the jamhoor Ulema are clear on the issue.

4. Having said all that, i still believe that the views of Imran Khan are correct, he is honest, he wants to serve the nation, the current political system of Sharifs and Zardariz is a corrupt one. However, it is the "method" of Imran Khan, with which i and other Ulema differ.
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2014 05:32
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Fair enough Maulana, but then what is another way. We all know there is no hope with JUI , what other initiative can be taken to some how try or attempt to fix the system , increase accountability , and integrity of the institutions?

Please give some real practical ways, and tell us who will do that....because if we are going to write off Imran and his actual physical efforts. Then who and what other effort is being done in the sphere of Pakistani Politics....who is challenging Nawaz and Zardari?
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2014 05:44

Can we compare Tahreek insaaf party with Aaam Aadmi Pary of India. And Imran Khan with Kejriwal or Anna Hazare.

If yes, Kejriwal could deliver when he was in opposition. He created fear in rulers mind about corruption and misrule. Even the corrupt beuracrats and officers had jitters of getting exposed.

But;

When Kejriwal tasted power he failed. He could not deliver. That is more tragic.

Similarly Imran Khan  could be good in opposition, like the Marxist and Aam Aadmi party in India. Patriotism and honesty of  Imran khan is unquestionable. But power; he shall fail. It is a very very complex country.

So people here would like to see a stable government and also a powerful opposition. Allow democracy to grow.

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