Ijmah, a Hujjah ?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 31st August 2014 07:19

This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 08:54

السلام عليكم

A repost

Shaikh Salih Al Fawzan (Haf) on Madhabs :

Question: People who subscribe to knowledge and especially young students look down upon Fiqh-matters and especially the books of the Madhâhib. Their argument is that they do not consist of evidence. They even look down upon the Ijtihâd of the Imams in this matter. What do you advise in terms of this and the respect for the Imams of the Madhâhib and the importance of the Madhâhib. There are people today who look down upon them, criticize them and say that they are freed from the Madhâhib and that they take directly from the Qur’ân and Sunnah.

Shaykh al-Fawzân (haf):

" It is a deviation. We have said that and clarified it. We said that the one who fulfils the conditions of Ijtihâd does Ijtihâd. He is not allowed to follow blindly. THESE ARE HOWEVER FEW TODAY, IF THEY EVEN EXIST. The more time passes, the more the knowledge disappears. The prophet (sallâ Allâhu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

“Allâh does not seize this knowledge by pulling it out from the chests of men. It is seized by the death of the scholars. When there then are no scholar left, the people take the ignorant as leaders who in turn will answer without knowledge and go astray and lead others astray.”

The more time passes, the more the knowledge disappears. It has also been reported that by the end of time, few scholars will exist and many readers [will exist]. Many readers who lack understanding will exist.

It is wrong to ignore the Fiqh-books. Fiqh is the richness of this Ummah. It is a great richness. However, that does not mean that we take everything that is in them to heart. We filter (I.e. right from mistakes). The one who has the capacity filters. He takes that which is strongest according to the evidence. We said that there are four types of people; an absolute Mujtahid, a Mujtahid within his Madhhab who considers what opinion is the correct one, one who follows blindly and a layman. This fiqh is, as said, a great richness in the hands of the scholars. They study it and take help from it in order to understand the Qur’ân and Sunnah. They take its verdicts and the statements of the Imams that agree with the evidence and leave that which contradicts the evidence.

As for the one who ignores it and says that they shall do a new Ijtihâd… Who is the one who is to make a new Ijtihâd? There is none! It is a deviation. Are you who say that you shall make a new Ijtihâd as the four Imams? Such as Imâm Ahmad and Imâm Mâlik? What does this mean? I wish that they existed. But you don’t have more than the smallest who follows blindly. You have nothing to come with. Don’t destroy yourself. Don’t destroy others. Fear Allâh! It is allowed to blindly follow in necessity. Allâh (ta’âlâ) said:

فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

“So ask the people of the message if you do not know.” (16:43)

This is a blind following in necessity. It is OBLIGATORY to blindly follow in necessity. It is prohibited to blindly follow in the case of capability. It is forbidden for the one who is able to make Ijtihâd to blindly follow. In necessity, it is obligatory to blindly follow. It is not fully prohibited to blindly follow and neither is it fully allowed to blindly follow. The matter is thusly detailed. We do not say that you should take to heart everything that exists in Fiqh. We say that you should filter and follow that which is based on evidence. They are after all more knowledgeable than you about proving and the extraction of rulings. You have nothing to come with. You should rely on them and the words of the Fuqahâ’ and look to their evidence. If you are able to consider, do so. If you are not able to, you follow that which is (written) there even if you do not know of the evidence. For this is a necessity. This has to be understood. There are people who fight the Madhâhib today. Where should the people go? Should they deviate? There is one who has authored a book by the name “Islâm without Madhâhib”. What without Madhâhib? Where should the people go then? Should they go to the ignoramuses? This is a great problem. "

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 11:54

Mod, is this not away from subject of threat? you did not delete it so for. If i will write response, you will delete. and by the way, do you have any justification why the original post was deleted ? which rules did it break ?

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 12:38

mrg503 wrote:

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Brother the forum is public and visited by thousands people all over the world. You might call it biased, but the Moderators are trying to avoid any notions that could mislead simple-minded readers. Also, you are fully aware that you could get your answers from many other places than a public forum.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 12:59

Shaikh Al Banee رحمة الله عليه on Taqleed :

This is one of a number of beneficial quotes in which Shaykh al-Albaanee (rahimahullaah) explains the issue of taqleed. Within it (and the other quotes, which I shall translate when I have time inshaa'Allaah) is a refutation of the baatil manhaj of Abul-Hasan al-Bannaawee, and also of some of those who consider the view of taqleed being permissible to be a misguided innovation and who consider it to be making lawful that which Allaah made unlawful. The latter often comes from those who go to extremes in refuting the Hanafee Muqallidah, and who at the same time are not grounded in the details of the Salafee manhaj that relate to this issue, and who do not distinguish between a Sharee`ah ruling, a fatwaa of a scholar, and the tahdheer against Ahl ul-Ahwaa and what it contains of refutations, and disparagement.

Cassette no. 27 from the "Silsilah Fataawaa Jeddah"

Question: We face a difficulty in that it is said that you reject blind following of the Scholars, but you make taqleed of Yahyaa bin Ma`een and Ahmad in their sayings, or [in] the sayings of them both, such as, "So and so is da`eef", "So and so is thiqah", and we want to listen in this manner, so is the acceptance of the saying of the Scholars about a narrator that he is da`eef or thiqah pure taqleed, or is it built upon something knowledge-based that is not to be labelled taqleed for example, and there is another question that is built upon this one.

Shaykh al-Albaanee (rahimahullaah): I say that this matter has been treated by as-San`aanee in his risaalah and he tends to the view that this is not taqleed. And personally I am not satisfied with that [i.e. as-San`aanee's view in not calling it taqleed], I am not satisfied with this[1], however, can a person reject taqleed? As for me then I do not reject taqleed, rather I affirm it, rather, I obligate it, even if one besides me might oppose me, then he can, no doubt.

So we benefit from this mutual difference in this matter, I believe that the most senior of the Imaams are not saved from [resorting to] taqleed, let alone the lesser ones, let alone their Scholars, let alone the students of knowledge, and finally, let alone the common people. So what is the difficulty then?

The basis of the difficulty in my view is something that does not arise in the first place (i.e. there is no difficulty in the first place), because those who make this statement are either those muqallidah (blind followers) who wish to argue against us [by saying] that you claim that taqleed is forbidden so why do you blindly follow (yourself)! Or they are from those Ghulaat (Extremists) from our Salafee brothers who forbid taqleed with an absolute (unrestricted) forbiddence. And both of the two groups are upon error, yes.

And based upon this, I am able to answer, if I have an answer... depending on which of the two groups this criticism comes from, so if they are the muqallideen (blind-followers), then it is very clear that we say "you do not have this place...(meaning, this is not your place)", meaning just as the arabic similitude says, "This is not your nest...", this is not the subject of your research!! And if he is from our Salafee brothers who exaggerate in obligating research and ijtihaad until even upon the common people, then we say that this has no evidence for it, rather, it is opposed to what our Salaf as-Saalih said. For this reason, I say that I do not believe that there is any difficulty in this [criticism], regardless of whether it came from them (the muqallidah) or from them (the ghulaat in the matter of taqleed).

NOTE

[1] What the Shaykh means, judging by the other quotations, is that he does not agree with as-San`aanee negating that this is taqleed, because he does consider it taqleed, but it is not something blameworthy, rather it is taqleed that is permissible, and that whether you call it Ittibaa` or Taqleed, does not change the reality behind it, namely, that it is only a representation of doing what Allaah commanded when he said, "Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know...", this is the essence of what is found in the other quotations (to follow inshaa'Allaah) that explain what the Shaykh means here, Allaah knows best.

www.salafitalk.net/st/printthread.cfm?Forum=23&Topic=2749

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 13:09

mrg503 wrote:

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www.muftisays.com/forums/23-registered-users--announcemen...

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 13:21

Lol, give the guy a chance. He sounds a bigger Mujtahid than Shaykh Fawzan (ha)

Where can I take bait? Where can I learn this Deen from, awesome stuff man.

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Ahmed ibn Hanbal said, "If in any matter there is agreement between three people, then one pays no attention to the verdict of anyone who disagrees with them." Someone asked him, "Who are they?" He answered, "Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.
As-Samani / kitab al-ansab.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 13:22

ok noted . Do you know any online forum where Ahnaf respond questions based on knowledge and allow users to discuss and argue the evidence ?

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 13:26

ALi , this is enough for you written by Dr. Fouzan "We do not say that you should take to heart everything that exists in Fiqh. We say that you should filter and follow that which is based on evidence." ..... EVIDENCE my dear, ever heard this word ?

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 13:58

So you want to discuss ijma.. Right ?
O.k. Move on.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 14:05

Bro Arfat , Mod won't allow that. He won't delete whatever you will write but for my response, he will. This website does not allow any thing that goes against Ahnaf. Come, join me on FB, if you like.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 14:10

Bro Ali, this qool of Ahmad bin hanbal رضي الله عنه, what you have in your signatures, about virtues of Imam e Azam رضي الله عنه and his students رضي الله عنه is totally baseless. There is no sanad for this. i told yesterday that Imam Samani ra died 300 years after Imam ahmad ra and narrates this qool, from ahmad ra, with no sanad in "insab". Imam Ahmad has narrated something very different for Abu hanifa رضي الله عنه in his book.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 14:17

mrg503 wrote:

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Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) is from the Salaf so I am in no need for anybody's Qawl to follow him since it has already been sanctioned by Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). You on the other hand are a Maverick no name, no credibility chap with driven pathalogical hatred not sanctioned by anyone.

None of us are under anyobligation to listen to or follow you. In fact we should close our ears to your ridiolous tittle tatle against the Salaf all it increases is sins in your bag on the day of the judgement.

Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) was followed hunderds of years before you were concerived and will be followed hunderds of years after your Fitnah has become dust!

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 14:22

who "has already been sanctioned by Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)" ???? is this Imam e Azam ? pardon me , i never come across any ayah or hadith where Imam رضي الله عنه was "sanctioned" by Rasool (saw)

. do you mind giving reference please ...

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 1st September 2014 14:26

mrg503 wrote:

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He (as being a Salaf) has already been sanctioned by Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). I am in no need to be giving you any reference.

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Ijmah, a Hujjah ?

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