Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Debates Banned - Procedures

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
Taalibah, rizmalek, Seifeddine-M, member2, abu mohammed, Maria al-Qibtiyya, abuzayd2k, Maripat
2 guests appreciate this topic.
Yasin's avatar
UK
6,057
Brother
163
Yasin's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 17th November 2011 03:19

Assalamu Alaykum,

With Mashwarah, much thought and with the push required from a very useful post from aaa, debates are now banned on muftisays forums in all the public categories.

A lot of light has been shed in this topic about the spiritual harms of endless debates by people without knowledge in the subject. http://www.muftisays.com/forums/peoples-say/6285/debates.html

 

What happened to Muftisays Forums?

Muftisays.com forums was added to share information, help, learn, teach and pass good time as a substitute for games web sites and other sites which waste time. Alhamdulillah thousands have spent many hours on the site to achieve just that. One of our most popular categories (in terms of views and time spent) is "the lighter side"

 

Bad Image

Many non-Muslims visit the site too and will be completely baffled and find us a joke to witness such debates which to them is meaningless. Picture the following:

John: Hey Hamzah! Check this page out, what are they arguing about? I don't get it and they're at each other's throats

Hamzah: Well, they're arguing about whether to raise the hands before bowing down to their lord or not.

John: What's wrong if you do or don't?

Hamzah: Well, neither is wrong. Both are correct

John: So why are they arguing?

 

What is the answer?

Well, the answer is, we're simply identifying or learning which opinion is stronger as BOTH are proven in Saheeh Ahadeeth. Now to go beyond this is where the endless debates and arguments and virtual fights occur. In some cases, threats too.

To demolish this illness, all Fiqhi debates and arguments will now be moved to a private section where only those interested will see it. This is not an open group nor is it for public viewing. This group will not be monitored nor will it be censored as much time has been wasted in the past week not to make the Muslim Ummah look like a laughing stock.

My personal advice is to avoid it unless you have knowledge in the subjects.

 

A few regulations and advice on refuting

Please follow these steps to refute anything in the Hanafi Madhab or the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah in general. If not the following then simply read it and decide for yourself what the most sensible method would be.

 

  1. State your claims clearly with the original texts, sources and names if required.


    عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال : لو يعطى الناس بدعواهم ، لادعى رجال أموال قوم ودماءهم لكن البينة على المدعي واليمين على من أنكر . حديث حسن ، رواه البيهقي وغيره هكذا ، وبعضه في " الصحيحين " .


    Ibn 'Abbas, radiyallahu 'anhu, said that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, said: "Were people to be given according to their claims, some would claim the wealth and blood of others. But the burden of proof is upon the claimant and the taking of an oath is upon the one who denies (the allegation)." [A Hasan Hadith which al-Bayhaqi and others have narrated and parts of it are in Bukhari & Muslim]

     
  2. Take the claims to a qualified scholar. Do not start posting it in public sections where the general public would just run. If I find something wrong with my computer, I will not take it to a plumber and eat his head about it. This is very important. GO TO THE ULAMAA FIRST

     
  3. If the scholar answers, get it in writing and do not try to memorise the reply as it will be changed overtime.

     
  4. If the scholar refuses to answer, ask the reason and get the reason in writing too.

     
  5. If the scholar forwards you to a book, an article or another scholar, it is upon you to follow up on that as this scholar may not be as well versed in the subject as the one you are being referred to.

    Ibn Abbas رضي الله عنه narrates that ‘Umar ibn Khattab gave a sermon at Jabiyah and said, “O people! If you want to know about the Qur’aan, go to ‘Ubaid ibn Ka’b. If you want to know about inheritance, go to Zaid ibn Thaabit. If you want to about Fiqh, go to Mu’aadh ibn Jabal. If you want to know about wealth, then come to me for Allah has made me a guardian and a distributor. “ (Tabarani)

    Was Umar رضي الله عنه not capable of answering questions about the Qur'aan? Or inheritance? So being forwarded to another scholar is not a thing to claim that you were refused an answer.

     
  6. If you were forwarded to a book and the answer you seek was not there, DO NOT USE THIS AS A CONCLUSION. Go back to the scholar and request help in the matter.

     
  7. If after trying genuinely, you were not given any answers, you can continue to pursue the issue on a more public domain such as this forum and others like it. Allow time and space for someone to attend to it and don't overwhelm otherwise it turns into what's been happening lately (endless and rotating debates).

 

Remember, the forum DOES NOT have Muftis and scholars on it. It is for the general public. Aalims may use the forum too not at a curricular level. For that we have schools, organisations, Masaajid and teachers within.

 

The above decision is not for discussion nor will it be revoked. If one still feels issues with it, there is always the option of simply leaving. If you truly believe that guidance is in your hands and not in Allah's then pursue endlessly. Otherwise remember that your message itself should be sufficient.

One must also remember that this site and it contents represents a strict adherence to the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa'ah. Contents which disturb you will not be removed if it complies with the defence of our A'immah, the Aslaaf. The oneness of Allah disturbs the Christians and Hindus but they do not bombard the forum asking for us to remove the Kalimah from the site or to filter anything contrary. If you wish to propagate your beliefs, please use your own web sites the same way the rest of the world does. I truly hope this message was clear and makes sense to all parties.

 

Jazakumullah

report post quote code quick quote reply
+8 -0Like x 6Winner x 1
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
1,791
Sister
1,899
ummi taalib's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 17th November 2011 15:36
Alhamdulillaah!!
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
World Of Allah
669
Brother
516
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd December 2011 20:43

"ummi taalib" wrote:
Alhamdulillaah!!

Alhumdulillah, Every thing looks well now.

JazakAllaah

report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
rizmalek's avatar
Offline
Qatar, Doha
443
Brother
325
rizmalek's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd December 2011 21:11
.........please can some one send to our special friends.

This should be added to all the forum rules.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 2Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
Taalibah's avatar
Unspecified
7,126
Sister
801
Taalibah's avatar
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 1st May 2012 06:27
Was very pleased to read this post, Masha.Allah. keep up the good work.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Yasin's avatar
UK
6,057
Brother
163
Yasin's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 4th June 2014 16:54
InshaAllah this will be in affect once again at a more strict level hereon.

"Debates & Refutations" category will NOT be moderated (wastes too much time). Anyone subscribed to that group remain subscribed at their own risk and cannot complain if it heats up. You can simply unsubscribe if needed. My one month absence last month didn't help and I apologise to the neutral members here for that.

This is nothing new, the original post was posted two and a half years ago.
report post quote code quick quote reply
+5 -0Like x 5Agree x 1
back to top
Rank Image
In Need of Teaching's avatar
Offline
USA
1,059
Brother
392
In Need of Teaching's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2020 17:21
Why are posts in that section no longer able to be rated?
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Yasin's avatar
UK
6,057
Brother
163
Yasin's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 12th March 2020 17:43
In Need of Teaching wrote:
View original post

To discourage debating without principals. Your thread is merged which this existing one for some background on that section which might be useful.
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Maripat's avatar
Offline
Gham-o-Huzn
2,623
Brother
3,205
Maripat's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 07:09
The post is from the year 2011. We had messed up the things that long back!
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
23,080
Brother
9,578
abu mohammed's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 07:58
Maripat wrote:
View original post

The debates section was created back then. The decline started before that :(
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
1,791
Sister
1,899
ummi taalib's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 08:40
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post

And unfortunately still continues! There are so many disadvantages in these continuious arguments and debates with little or no consideration for beautiful akhlaaq. We have enough enemies to fight without bickering on forums meant to be a gateway to correct info and da'wah
report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,517
Brother
10,080
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 13th March 2020 09:36

The issue is neither debates nor disagreement, the issue is HATE.

A person can come into a thread containing technical information and post completely irrelevant nonsense just to pipe up and 3 people will "like it" although they either know that the post is irrelevant OR don't know and just out of spite and HATE want to bring someone down.

I am Sorry to say this but the forum died the day "Zih@@d" was allowed to exist for days on end when everyone knew that it is a ridiculous assertion. Those who bigged up the "Zih@@d" person now have a monster on their hands which they created.

A Muslim upholds the truth, no matter it is against or for him/her. When that principle is murdered in plain sight, you get problems, it is up to others to hold people responsible.

A forum is a collection of individuals and when individuals Collace around falsehood just out of sheer HATE, problems happen.

Fiqh is DEBATE and DISAGREEMENT and that's how learning in any field occurs.




report post quote code quick quote reply
back to top