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Arabs are beyond criticisms!

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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 25th August 2014 19:49
Addressing the OP only (as the rest steered out of control and topic)

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By the way, how to simply refute the claim that it's Haram to condemn crimes committed by Arabs? It's better if someone can post relevant Ahadith and fatwa from 'Ulama. [/quote]

No need to refute it. Simply ask them for evidence of their claim. They won't have one because "it's Haram to condemn crimes committed by Arabs" is simply incorrect and completely against the teachings of Islam. NO ONE is exempt from criticism and condemnation of crimes (we're not talking about individual sins here)

Nabi (s.a.w) said that even if "Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad was to steal" her hands would be cut according to Shar'ee law. Is that not sufficient to say that who are leaders in comparison to the most beloved daughter of the Prophet? If they talk about losing Imaan then remind them of the Hadeeth: "whenever you see an evil act stop it with your hands, and if you are not able to do that then speak out with your tongue and if you are not able to do that hate it in your heart and that is the lowest form of iman." (Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)

Why choose the lowest form of Imaan when you are capable of speaking out against the crimes?

Quote:
PS: 1. Please keep the effort of Tableegh away from discussion.


I respect the need to keep the discussion of Tableegh away but when your question was posed as Tableeghis making these claims then how can you expect the people passionate about Tableegh to stay quite? You should have said "some local brothers claim" without associating the claim with Tableegh if it's not related.

[quote]2. This thread is not talking about each and every Arab, rather those who are violating Shari'ah in the way that is harmful for the Ummah.


You should paste this after every post that brings the topic back to "all arabs"
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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 01:58
Yasin wrote:
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Finally someone has comprehended. You should have appeared earlier, Moulana.

Yasin wrote:
No need to refute it. Simply ask them for evidence of their claim. They won't have one because "it's Haram to condemn crimes committed by Arabs" is simply incorrect and completely against the teachings of Islam. NO ONE is exempt from criticism and condemnation of crimes (we're not talking about individual sins here).[/quote]

I've mentioned that their irrefutable evidence is- "I've heard from Moulana UVW, Mufti XYZ that we shouldn't criticize Arabs."

"Why?"

"Because Hadith says so."

"Which Hadith?"

"Ask a scholar."

I asked a Mufti and he said there's no such Hadith. But still these brothers are stuck to their opinion.

For example,

#63 Arfatzafar wrote:
They're taught and trained to obey their elders. They accept every hadis without finding out its authenticity.

Regarding this issue that Arab shouldn't be criticised, ahadis are included in ''Muntakhab ahadis'' of Hazrat Molana Yusuf Kandhelvi rh.a, the grandfather of Hazrat Molana Saad sahab HA.[/quote]

#69 Black Turban wrote:
[quote=Muntakhab Ahadith]236. Sa'd رضي الله عنه narrates that Rasulullah (saw) said: No one who intends evil for the people of Madinah except that Allah will melt him in the fire, like the melting of lead or the dissolving of salt in water. (Muslim)

237. Jabir ibn 'Abdullah رضي الله عنهما narrates: I heard Rasulullah (saw) saying: He, who frightens the residents of Madinah, frightens me. (Musnad Ahmad, Majma-'uz-Zawaid)

238. 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar رضي الله عنهما narrates that Rasulullah (saw) said: He who can die in Madinah, let him die there; verily I shall intercede for those who die there. (Ibne Hibban)

239. Abu Hurairah رضي الله عنه narrates that Rasulullah (saw) said: No one amongst my Ummah who will endure the hardship and rigour of Madinah, without my being an intercessor or witness on his behalf on the Day of Resurrection. (Muslim)

Which of these Ahadith says Arabs are beyond criticisms?

Even if we accept that yes they are, then

>thousands of 'Ulama must repent immediately for condemning bad actions of Arab leaders and Arab people.

>an Arab can't criticize another Arab for his bad actions because rules are applicable for everyone.


Yes, some Ahadith narrate virtues of Arabs. But what do these Ahadith say actually? Does any Hadith say that just because a person is Arab, is exempted from condemnation?

Anyway, as we clearly see that meaning of Ahadith are being twisted to derive a desired conclusion, I request you to look this matter up. I've found different people from different regions of my country showing identical attitude. Therefore there must be some reasons. I've found a probable reason that they've learnt it from a common source. Which is that source?

[quote=Yasin]I respect the need to keep the discussion of Tableegh away but when your question was posed as Tableeghis making these claims then how can you expect the people passionate about Tableegh to stay quite? You should have said "some local brothers claim" without associating the claim with Tableegh if it's not related.


It's crystal clear that I'm not trying to bash the effort of Tableegh. Then why in the world persons passionate about Tableegh should take it as an offense? Rather real favour is to identify problems of people doing this effort in order to rectify them.
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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 02:18
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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 09:19
As salaam,

The arabs are not above accountability for sure.

Regarding criticism, I recall a quote I read a few months back but have been unable to search / recover it, so I can only post it here for anyone who maybe able to find..

It said "Mufti Gangohi has said criticism of the awaam (public / laymen) is a disease of the body and criticism of the Ulamah (scholars) is a disease of the mind"

I don't know context nor source.

From what br BT has said earlier, if those brothers have a good opinion of the arabs due to the good conduct of the arabs who come in khuruj, they why blame them? And let me tell you, if one doesn't have a good opinion of the guests and or doubts them, then it becomes very hard to their khidmat (service) which is what they are doing / would be doing (in tabligh), so my 2 cents suggestion is to leave them to their good opinion and make dua for them.

And these threads arent' new btw, they end up spreading hate (which is not BT's intention)....what I'd greatly wish to see is what we are doing / could do to rectify the situation.

the same arabs send 1000s & 1000s of labour bangladeshis / south asians etc all expenses paid to Hajj every year, their sakhawat even today is unbeatable, on an other thread a brother mentioned about a hospital in arab not coming to aid of a bangladeshi worker, sorry to say, we forget about the one's they do help...

their wealth today is the barakah of the sahabah رضي الله عنه (my opinion) i don't know if we can claim any of it.

due to such forum discussions before, i have been carried away...I too have been critical of them but Alhamdulillah I have realized ..seen its worthless time spent, makes one distance from people.

if we are truly concerned why don't we put efforts to make a jamat of learned men and women and send them in jama't?
or learn arabic and open a forum and engage with their youth?

or learning arabic / hadith ilm for their islah ?

but sorry to say we are more concerned with getting to know hadith and stuff to rectify the local brothers who have a good opinion of them.

don't start relating negative experiences now to prove a point, i'm more aware than most of you here.

the long and short of it is they as well as us are in immense need of reminding.

----

if my words have hurt, i seek your forgivness.

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 09:26
Wa Alaikum Assalam w.w.

^ Masha Allah.. looks like an old saathi under a new umbrella.. :-)

Lets wait for the rain to pause so we know who u are..
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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 10:04
Assalaamu Alaykum

Those who ardently support and defend with vigor the Arabs on this thread and elsewhere should also come out just as strongly the next time some Arab Salafi Ulama, Mashayikh, etc. are attacked and denigrated.

Then we will see who is on the path of Haqq.

Was-salaam
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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 19:46
dr76 wrote:
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السّلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

dr 76 Saab, I'm no one but desi / pluto, I think you didn't read my sig...

---

I received this msg in Whatsapp few days back:

Sayyidinā 'Abdullāh Ibn Mas`ūd would advise his students:

❝If your intention is one of these three, do not seek knowledge,

1) To shame the ignorant, or
2) To argue with the Scholars, or
3) To cause people to turn their faces in your direction.

Intend with your actions and words that which is with Allah, for indeed that which is with Allah shall remain and everything else shall perish.❞

وعليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته
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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 27th August 2014 03:01

Saheb wrote:
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MaashaAllaah! Great post with a balanced view.

I've no objection regarding respect for those Arabs who are sincerely practising upon and striving to propagate Deen (obviously in the proper manner without creating discord and doubt among the Ummah).

Wallaahi I feel immense respect and love for all Arab Muslims in general. They resemble Rasulullaah (saw), the Sahabah رضي الله عنهم in appearance and language; why in the world I should hate them for some bad deeds? The whole world knows about their valour, this is why instead of fighting, Kuffar have spent their money and technologies to befriend them and successfully corrupted many of them.

However, I believe in being just. When something good is found even among Kuffar, we've to admit it despite the fact that we abhor Kufr. In the same way we've to call a spade a spade. This is indeed a big injustice to support or not condemning oppressor just because he is a Muslim.

Anas رضي الله عنه narrates that Rasulullah (saw) said: Help your Muslim brother whether he is an oppressor or is oppressed. A man asked O Rasulullah! I will help him when he is oppressed, but how can I help him when he is an oppressor? He replied: You stop or prevent him from oppression for indeed that is your help to him. (Bukhari)

Now the big question is if we even refuse to discuss real facts then how is it possible to recognise oppression and preventing oppressor? The main problem isn't about Arab/non Arab issue. Why practising Muslims have got the idea that certain people have gone beyond discussion because of their ethnicity, language, race etc? This is one of the worst thing that Rasulullah (saw) had to tackle. My only objection is this.

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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 10:45
Saheb wrote:
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wa Alaikum Assalam w.w.

Masha Allah.. Marhaba.. i did not see ur signature..

Purana saathis from SF do not go unnoticed.. :-)

duas..

wa Assalam..
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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 28th August 2014 11:38
bhai desi_tadka, assalamu alaykum, :)

what happened to your old account? password got lost?

afriki_haqq wrote:
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One being on the path of Haqq is identified by whether he wants to criticize Arabs or not?

These type of phrases are what turn discussions into arguments...Why do we have to be so dramatic?
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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 29th August 2014 09:28
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