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True Dawn - Astronomical Twilight

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 16th July 2013 15:21

abu mohammed wrote:
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I do feel like crying after watching this because Shaykh (Mufti) Yusuf Sacha (HA) showed me correspondence with Observatory going back to 1974 which he has kept in a file with him.

So we had our Ulamah back in 1974 who have known this AND yet we have thrown away the works of our Ulamah!

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 12:29
Salaams,

I have been reading regarding this issue over the last few days with Ramadan fast approaching. I have read through all the relevant threads here and on SF and also the material on wifaqul ulema website.

This Ramadan, in my locality, the whole duration will be in a period where there will be no Astronomical Twilight. I am aware that the safest option in this case would be to adopt the 'Nearest Day' ruling for Imsaak. However, reading through the material other options were also given e.g. 'Nearest City', 'Half the night', Dividing the night in to 7. It is this last one that has been causing me a bit of confusion.

All the fataawa and explanations indicated that the 7 part rule is valid e.g. Mufti ibn Adam's fatwa and also on Ml. Farid Patels presention on the subject.

However I came across this fatwa from Darul Uloom Karachi (4th item down):
central-mosque.com/index.php/Acts-of-Worship/scholarly-co...

The above indicates that the 1/7th option is not valid to follow in the UK, when nearly all the othe material I read said otherwise. Hence the confusion.

I hope someone can please clarify?
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 12:35

SunniSeeker wrote:
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www.muftisays.com/blog/Muadh_Khan/3393_31-07-2013/an-expl...

Addendum (Shaykh (Mufti) Sajid Patel (HA): What happens when there is no 18 degrees time for Fajar?

Also many of our Scholars are unaware that نصف الليل (Nisf-ul-Lail) is the only option mentioned by the Hanafi Jurists with regards to Fajr. After accepting that perpetual twilight does occur in Bulgaar, Tahtaawi writes the definition of Fajr;

ووجود الفجر بظهور البياض منتشرا من جهة المشرق

Translation of Tahtaawi's text: "Fajr occurs when manifestation of spreading of whiteness appears from the east". It should be noted that Tahtaawi has ignored the light from the west or NNW which is before midnight and says"Fajr occurs when manifestation of spreading of whiteness appears from the east"  before midnight the perpetual twilight is from the west (NNW), hence light after midnight is from the east or NNE.

The words من جهة المشرق is the focal point in understanding Nisf-ul-Lail from the above text.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 14:28
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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JazakAllah khayran for the info, didn't see this bit previously.

So does this invalidate all the other fatwas/articles etc. that propose the various methods i.e. they are mistaken, and we should only use nisf al layl method?

For example, in the fatwa I linked to above it says Aqrabul Ayyam and Bilad are both ok. Now Aqrabul Ayyam is similar to Nisful Layl in terms of the fajr time, but Aqrabul Bilaad can give a time an hour later than the other two. So is this fatwa incorrect?
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 14:48
SunniSeeker wrote:
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I have also read 2 different Accounts as you are saying but Shaykh (Mufti) Sajid (HA) recently said that all those methods apply to Esha only and Fajar is what he states (only) as per his view.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 15:18
JazakAllah Khayran Muadh for your efforts, but I am still confused regarding the issue. I will personally be following the Aqrabul Ayyam option however I was just seeking clarification regarding the others.

1) Mufti Ibn Adam clearly states the four methods are for BOTH isha and fajr in his fatwa, as do the info provided on Wifaqul Ulema website.

2) The fatwa from DU Karachi affirms three but invalidates 1/7th method.

3) As per Muadh's info from Mufti Sajid, only Nisful Layl is valid.


The above three points is what is causing me confusion, as they are contradictory.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 15:22
SunniSeeker wrote:
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Take the opinion of any of the Ulama whom you trust. Personally I have an opinion on the issue but I am keeping it to myself.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 15:34
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I would be very grateful if you could share any other information regarding this i.e. what other ulema have said etc. as this is an issue that is bugging me and it is difficult to obtain information on this as not everyone seems able to grasp the issue or indeed willing to clarify.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 15:46

SunniSeeker wrote:
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This is my personal analysis of the issue:

When 18 degrees is not available for Esha: All methods are guestimations so it matters little whether you pray 5 minutes or 55 minutes after Maghirb

When 18 degrees is not available for Fajar (Non-Ramadhan): The best and most superior method in the Madhab is to pray 35-40 minutes before sunrise so when the time actually starts is of little importance. 

When 18 degrees is not available for Fajar (Ramadhan or for fasting): Quit eating after half the night

 

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 16:03
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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JazakAllah khayran
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 16:08
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
guestimations


Guess estimation.

(just saying)
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 17:02
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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i think quite a few are intending to stop eating at half night (1am here in London) but then wait till 1:25 to pray Fajr so both views can be followed. its just another 25mins so sounds most sensible / precautionary
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 17:15
Taalibah wrote:
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Guestimation is an actual word. Just saying.


en.wiktionary.org/wiki/guestimation

Guestimation
English
Noun


guestimation (countable and uncountable, plural guestimations)

Alternative spelling of guesstimation.


www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/guesstimate...

guesstimate
Line breaks: guess|ti�mate
(also guestimate)
informal

noun
Pronunciation: /ˈgɛstɪmət


An estimate based on a mixture of guesswork and calculation: a rough guesstimate of public expenditure
More example sentences

verb
Pronunciation: /ˈgɛstɪmeɪt


[with object]

Estimate (something) using a mixture of guesswork and calculation: the task is to guesstimate the total vote
More example sentences

Origin

1930s: blend of guess and estimate.


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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 17th June 2014 17:39
umar123 wrote:
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No way! learnt a new word today. Jazakallah.

'guestimation' nice word, reads more like 'gestation'
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 15th July 2014 11:26
I was just talking to one of our suppliers who happens to be Jewish.

He asked me how Ramadhan was going then mentioned that his son was alo fasting today.

He said his Son starts his fast around 1am until sunset. Which coincides with our 18� timetable too.
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