Having doubts/losing faith in Islam over this?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2023 22:17

I've recently discovered scholars claim that Islam allows child marriage and intimacy with girls who have not yet hit puberty.
This is from AskImam:

The permissibility of consummating a marriage with a girl is based on her physical strength and not on her age. If consummating the marriage will be injurious to her health then it will not be permissible to do so, although she may have reached the age of puberty. However, if consummating the marriage will not be injurious to her health then it will be permissible to do so, although she may have not reached the age of puberty. (Hashiyya Ibn Aabideen, vol 3, pg 204, HM Sa’eed)

and Islamqa too:

The fact that it is permissible to marry a young girl does not mean that it is permissible to have intercourse with her; rather that should not be done until she is able for it. For that reason the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) delayed the consummation of his marriage to ‘Aa’ishah. Al-Nawawi said: With regard to the wedding-party of a young married girl at the time of consummating the marriage, if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree upon something that will not cause harm to the young girl, then that may be done. If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger. Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Abu Haneefah said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Al-Dawoodi said: ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) was reached physical maturity (at the time when her marriage was consummated)

The bolded part troubles me as how is this not rape?

and here Ebrahim Desai allows a 45 year old to marry and have intimacy with a 12 year old:

i am 45 and married to already 15 years now after the sexual desire of my woman has nearly gone i am looking to marry again. And i would like to marry a woman who is 12 years old, her father and she has also agreed, my first wife told me that it could make problems if it will be a big different in age, and also some of my children are older than my second wife. What is your advise ? And is it allowed for me to have already sexual intercourse with these woman after we are married or to i have to wait till she reach at special age ?
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According to the Shari?ah, if a girl is a minor (did not attain puberty), she may be given in marriage by her father. There is no age limit to be intimate with one?s wife even if she is a minor.

It is important for you, in your situation, to consider the age difference reservation expressed by your wife.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

This is really disturbing me and troubling me and can someone clear up this misconception?

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Yakob

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 05:00

Bismillah.

It disturbed me as well, when I first came across it. Then I came across the fact that through most of history there was no concept of fixed aged for marriage.

And this was globally amongst all cultures. We cannot judge the past by todays standards and ages of consent. The above Fatwas are based on a legal and historical perspective.

A few examples in history of marital age.

•Saint Augustine 350AD married a 10 year old girl.
•King Richard II 1400AD married a 7 year old.
•In 1791 Frances Napoleonic code set marriage of consent at 11yrs of age
•In India in the Age of Consent Act'(1891), the age of consent for girls was increased from 10 to 12 years of age.
•Before 1929 Church of English, ministers could marry 7 year olds in Britain.
•Before 1983 Catholic canon law permitted priests to marry off brides at the age of 12.
•The age of consent in Spain until 2013 was 13. And prior to 1999, it was 12 years of age.
•Rabindranath Tagore (National poet of India):
In 1883 the famous poet of South Asia married 10 year old Mrinalini Devi, born Bhabatarini, 1873-1902. •In 1909, Ramanujan married Janaki (Janakiammal; 21 March 1899 – 13 April 1994), a girl his mother had selected for him a year earlier and who was ten years of age when they married. •

In 1880, 37 states of the U.S had an age of consent at 10 years old. In Delaware it was 7 years old! Even now the marriage age for some states is 12(MA), 13(NH) and 14(NY

And ALLAH knows best.

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Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 07:11

Yakob wrote:

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I really don't understand why 2 billion muslims today and 100s of billions in the past didn't lose faith in islam over this issue.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 11:27

Bismillah.

Furthermore Historically the Europeans, wrote books upon books. Attacking Islam and The Prophet (saw)

but you will not find them raising this issue at all.Because it was not considered unusual.

It is fairly recent in the last 30 to 40 years or so that they have used this as an objection, with which to attack Islam with.

In particular the Christian missionaries, as Muslims we have taken a defensive position, and failed to look at the faces of the accusers or their history.

In their own history you can research this for yourself. You will find Biblical historians who state the age of Mary the Mother Of Jesus ( Peace and Blessings be upon them both) was 12 years old when she was married to Joseph and he was 90 years of age.

You will also find Jewish Scholars, who put the age of Rebecca at 3 when she was given in marriage to Isaac who was 40.

As I posted in the above post, until very recently in American history the age of consent, was 10 in most American states and it was 7 in the state of Delaware.

And you will also find these very low ages of consent in all the European little over a hundred years ago.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 12:13

Bismillah.

And if we look at modern western society you will find girls getting pregnant at a fairly young age. Outside wedlock. It Is very common in these cultures and no longer considered surprising.

It is the idea of marriage at a young age they find objectionable and shocking . But being a single mother as a teenager or pre-teen is fairly common. You will find examples of girls who have three children by the time they reach 16 from three different boyfriends. That is not shocking in Western Societies. I lived for a short time In a Town called Telford in England which was dubbed the single unwed Teenage mother capital of the U.K. you had these young unwed teenage mothers everywhere.

For the westerners it is being married by the age of 16 they would find objectionable. They ask questions like “How can you commit yourself to marriage, at such a young age you need to live and enjoy life first.” But engaging in sex with different partners at these ages is fine and acceptable in their world view.

In their own research studies one finds the children born in fatherless homes, are more likely to end up with emotional issues, involved in crime, become addicted to drug and alcohol and end up in prison.

These unwed mothers end up with various psychological problems of their own and depression.

Historically in most cultures marriages took place at a very young age. In marriage their was protection and emotional security, and well being, financial security sexual desires were fulfilled within the confines of marriage. Sexual promiscuity and Adultery were less common and frowned upon. And certainly as a muslims we want not just the best of Dhuniya for our daughters but ultimately the best in the Akhirah and a place in Jannah.

Historically women did not spend their prime years going from man to man relationship to relationship. Consumed by fashion and makeup the need to look attractive for the prying eyes of men. Have plastic surgeries and implants and fillers. Develop depression due to their appearance , or mental illnesses like Bulimia and Anorexia caused by a desire to be slim.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 12:35

akbar703 wrote:

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Because only the Muslims of today are smart enough to understand this issue.

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fod1083

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 12:47

fod1083 wrote:

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There is a booklet by Mufti mohammed saeed khan sahib on this subject.

Kumsin Bachon Ki Shadiyan By Shaykh Mufti Muhammad Saeed Khan

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 13:43

Yakob wrote:

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Bismillah.

Here is a comprehensive lecture on
this issue by Shaykh Omer Suleiman.
This should cover all of your doubts.

youtu.be/5gDTh-6X9vo

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 13:44

Similar thread where this was discussed
www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/12207-quran-654-a...

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 13:56

Bismillah.

In recent years the supporters of Hindutva ideology and their I.T. cyber propaganda cells. Have also been using this subject to propogate against Islam virtually millions of post on media about this.
And just like the Christians their wilfull hypocrisy and ignorance of their own history is laughable.

They unlike the Christians have an added advantage that most muslims dont know much about Hinduism or Hindu scriptures. And what they teach.
So if any of you come across these Hindutva extremist trolls. Rebut them using their own sources and see them run a mile.

One Dawah have done a short video on Child marriage in Hinduism.
youtu.be/tFg8Ufn6FkI

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 14:47

fod1083 wrote:

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The Muslims of today are not of any superior intelligence. If anything we are utterly useless, that is why Allah Ta'ala hasn't handed us the reigns of control over any place.

We are just indoctrinated by the well oiled machine of the western world. That's why we find issues with matters of the Shariah. Muslims can't even come together to get proper Muslim (Sunnah) style washrooms legalized in the western world.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 17:00

mSiddiqui wrote:

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I think you misinterpreted the tone of my post.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 17:11

fod1083 wrote:

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Sorry, wasn't able to detect the sarcasm. JazakAllah for the clarification.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 18:17

aplogies for the nature of my tone its not directed at anyone personally but i cant stand so called muslims who have doubts due to things like this. im sorry but why even be a muslim? this is what happens when you live in kuffar nations you just become like them and think like them but have a muslim name and appearance to differentiate.

had kuffar not had issued with age of marriage no muslim would bat an eyelid and being so pathetic and inferority complex if tomorrow kuffar say we lowering age to 6 these same pathetic muslims be like oh look allowed this 1400 years ago.

our standards is ISLAM and its TIMELESS. we dont give a %^^*^& what kuffar say who change their morals every week. it shows a weakness of ones own imaan if we get affected by the norms of western culture and and reconcile.

its reason i cant stand modern duaat especially the usa type literally go around telling kuffar "hey look at us we are just like you we can fit our religion to meet your sensitivities and can modernise" .

also where does it end? polygamy? jizya? jihad? apostacy laws? lgbt filth? stop using western way of life as benchmark and standard and i gurantee 100% that 99% of doubts will disappear but we got too many clowns promoting living in west is fien and islam is easier here than back home so kinda get what you deserve

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mkdon101

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2023 18:24

mkdon101 wrote:

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Important question is...
In other societies, is marriage required to stay together?

Yesterday there was news about a girl delivered after she had a relationship with 13 years boy.

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