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Salah behind certain Imams and how to approach them

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2015 01:37

abu mohammed wrote:
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forgive me, i was under the impression that even if salah behind a biddati is disliked, it is still better than praying salah without jamat.

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2015 02:02
abu mohammed wrote:
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Bismillahi Ta'ala,

In general barelwi activities do not render the Imam non-muslim. Salah behind an impious person is acceptable in Shariah, although makruh. The only issue is when the Imam has an open proclamation of some kufri aqeeda. Then making his iqtidaa will not be permissible.

If there are other masajid in the vicinity, then simply opt for another one to avoid any conflict. But if there arent any, and there is no saraha (explicitness) of the kufr aqeedah of the imam, then you may perform you salah there.

Take note that saying Yaa Abdul Qadir or alike is mauhim ash shirk, but they do not render the person kafir or mushrik (This is the opinion of Mufti Rasheed Gangohi). Hence salah behind them will be makruh tahrimi.

[The above is a technical distinction, it should not be misread to mean that such a "wadhifa" or "istighatha" is permissible. Having wrong aqeedah with these wordings can render a person kafir, but we cannot judge this aqeedah unless it is made apparent to us from the person himself]

The karahiyah will fall off if that is the only masjid in the vicinity.

Wallahu A'lam,
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2015 02:49
abuhajira wrote:
The karahiyah will fall off if that is the only masjid in the vicinity.


And I believe THIS is why Maulana Junaid mentioned that its not a problem for me to pray behind a barewli Imam, because at the time the vicinity I was in ONLY had barelwi masaajid.

JazaakAllah for confirming this.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2015 09:50
abu mohammed wrote:
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I had also asked a Mufti closer to home and one we all would trust as we know him (won't mention names as it will become a local issue)

First part of the question removed:
Quote:
QUESTION:
Would it be permitted to offer Salah there behind the Imam on a regular basis. I understand from others that it will be makrooh to pray behind the Imam there, but these opinions are coming from those who don't know the Masjid like we do, or at least have some sort of idea.

The next nearest Masjid will be over a 15-20+ minute walk away, rather than a 30 second walk.

If you know of the Masjid or the Imam on a personal level, this may help further inshaAllah. Since I won't be questioning the Imam and his belief on certain Barelwi issues. I hope you have a better insight or knowledge about them as they are closer to home.[/quote]

Anyway, he replied:
[quote]ANSWER:
I do not know much about the imam but from what I have heard about the masjid, they are not as problematic as others. I would pray there if it was that close, except when I could go elsewhere.


So I take it the Gym users upstairs are okay to offer Salah there as well as those living right next to the Masjid.
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 03:36
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Relax. All Im saying is that the issue is blown way out of proportion. Ummah has bigger threats and more deviant `aqaa-id to worry about. I'd pray behind a "mamatee" over a shi`a or qadiyaani anyday.

Deoband are not the only ones who can give fataawa. Stop being narrow-minded. As if mentioning "Deoband" puts a seal on the issue...




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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 11:26
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Background:

قَالَ وَكَانَتْ لِي جَارِيَةٌ تَرْعَى غَنَمًا لِي قِبَلَ أُحُدٍ وَالْجَوَّانِيَّةِ فَاطَّلَعْتُ ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ فَإِذَا الذِّيبُ قَدْ ذَهَبَ بِشَاةٍ مِنْ غَنَمِهَا وَأَنَا رَجُلٌ مِنْ بَنِي آدَمَ آسَفُ كَمَا يَأْسَفُونَ لَكِنِّي صَكَكْتُهَا صَكَّةً فَأَتَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَعَظَّمَ ذَلِكَ عَلَىَّ قُلْتُ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَفَلاَ أُعْتِقُهَا قَالَ ‏"‏ ائْتِنِي بِهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَأَتَيْتُهُ بِهَا فَقَالَ لَهَا ‏"‏ أَيْنَ اللَّهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ فِي السَّمَاءِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ مَنْ أَنَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَتْ أَنْتَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ أَعْتِقْهَا فَإِنَّهَا مُؤْمِنَةٌ ‏"‏

 

One day I happened to pass that way and found that a wolf had carried a goat from her flock. I am after all a man from the posterity of Adam. I felt sorry as they (human beings) feel sorry. So I slapped her. I came to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and felt (this act of mine) as something grievous I said: Messenger of Allah, should I not grant her freedom? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Bring her to me. So I brought her to him. He said to her: Where is Allah? She said: He is in the heaven. He said: Who am I? She said: Thou art the Messenger of Allah. He said: Grant her freedom, she is a believing woman. [Muslim]
 

Commentary:

Shaykh (Maulana) Suleiman Nadwi (RA) [1885-1953] the Khaleefa of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) [1863-1943] writes on page 43:

Allahu-Akbar! How many veils have covered the reality of Islam? Nabi (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) considered it sufficient for a person to raise a finger to testify (and attest to) their Islam while we don’t even consider someone a believer until he testifies and attests to all (elaborate) points (bullet point by bullet point) individually as contained in the Aqaid compilation of Imam Nasafi (RA) [1310]!

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 11:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Although I rated it as LIKE, please consider this:

If the person in question is a Shia (extreme), Qadyani, NoI and all 3 of them would testify in the same way, but they are not Muslim at all.

The situation in the time of the Prophet was one and the situation now is of another, just a thought! :)
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 12:17
abu mohammed wrote:
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Salam

If you were to pray salaah behind a qadiyani or a rafidhi you would know my brother because it'll be quite clear

Qadiyani temples are adorned with pictures of their shayateen so called prophets, if you don't believe me go check out that place in Morden. I know because a few years unknowingly me and a mate almost walked into one, however I felt uneasy and said let's wait for my mate who lives in the area then he will take us somewhere for Salah but not this place, turned out to be their European headquarters.

With the rafidha you'll also know it's a rafidha mosque as they'll have signs of shirk such as 'Ya ali madad' etc, plus their adhaan starts way early then the rest of the Muslim community, plus their adhaan contains the name of Ali ra, so you'll know for sure that's something don't add up here, regardless of your knowledge of Islam.
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 12:26
If we go into the aqeedah debate then the truth is Salah behind any other sect other than our own will be invalid.

Barelvis - Hazir Nazar, Noor, bidahs etc

Deobandi - Ashari/Matrudi/aqeedah taken from Rationale and logic etc

Salafis- ibn tamiyyah aqeedah, go into details about verses they shouldn't, limiting Allah to his throne, contrasting with human body parts etc

Azharis - Mostly modernist

And all completely disagree with each other in aqeedah, forums are full of debates on this, most only started to look past it now for the sake of unity


P. S. I'm thinking out loud here so all are welcome to correct me

But if we went on the above criteria were all deviants in aqeedah and Salah will not be valid behind anyone other than anyone from our own group whatever that may be.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 12:35

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A Shaykhul-Hadeeth from Gujranwala (Pakistan) who has now passed away told me in my Youth:

Sectarianism in Pakistan has gone wild in Pakistan! Imagine if on the day of judgement Ulama from each sect would be given the authority to judge (Aqeedah) nobody would get in because there is NO AGREED upon group who is (perfect) Muslim according to Ulama even within Deobandees you have groups which label each other deviants so all praise be to my Allah (SWT) who is most Merciful of those who show Mercy.

I contacted Shaykh (Maulana) Marghoob Ahmed (HA) in UK about Fatwaas of Majlis about Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) and others so Maulana replied,

“Nobody becomes a Kaafir or deviant by random Fatwaas!” 

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 12:43
Jinn wrote:
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Not all mosques are the same and they don't all have pictures.

Unfortunately for me, I was in the courtyard so I had no idea I was doing Jummah behind their kaafir caliph.

www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/7458-temples-call... they could get away as a normal mosque!
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2015 12:54
abu mohammed wrote:
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I did feel uncomfortable but I just couldn't figure it out. It's a long story already posted somewhere.

Anyway, after a waste of a khutbah and 2 raka'h, his highness the clown walked through the courtyard and everyone was in a "Hail Hitler" position. Then I knew in was at the wrong place. I googled it when I got home and felt sick because I saw the man in the flesh and thought I let this clown lead me.

I wanted to puke for days and still feel it after so many years.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2015 17:00
QUESTION

Hanafi Fiqh > Darulifta-Deoband.org
I had asked one question regarding salah last time. You asked me to tell more details about Imam. I work in a company. There is only one mosque in that area which is led by Barailavi people, they claim to be of maslak-e-Ahmad Raza. I daily offer Zuhr salah behind him with jamah, and Jumuah prayer as well. I wanted to know whether is it allowed for us (Deobandi followers) to offer salah behind him. He has beard as per sunnah, always wears Islamic dress. But, the major deviation in our and their belief is there. He always says Salam saying “Ya Rasoolallah”. He always says that Muhammad (SAW) is having ‘Ilm-e-Ghaib, for this he gives examples of Ahadith also. But that much we Deobandi also believe, I daily do taleem of Fazail Amal and Muntakhab Ahadith, in that such hadith are there. But we do not claim that knowledge as ‘Ilm-e-Ghaib’. Please tell if salah behind him is allowed or not, and if not allowed then what is the alternative I should do?


ANSWER

(Fatwa: 694/B=100/TB=1433)

We do not term any person kafir having the beliefs of Barailaviat. We consider them Muslim, but they are bidati due to their deviant beliefs. Salah behind a bidati is makrooh tahrimi. If there are many Deobandi people then you may start your own jama’ah. And if there is no way then you should offer salah behind that Barailavi imam. In case you offer salah alone you would be deprived of the reward of jama’ah.

Allah (Subhana Wa Ta’ala) knows Best

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband

Source
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2015 22:06
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2015 22:10
Question for everyone.

We all know that the meat of the Shia, Clowns, NoI etc is haram to eat (see relevant threads) so if you consider praying Salah behind certain groups because of their biddah or kufr or shirk, as forbidden/makruh, would you eat their Zabiha?

If you eat their Zabiha, why can't you or wouldn't you then pray behind them?
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