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Muslim - Shia Unity?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 11th June 2013 22:49
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 11th June 2013 23:36
I dont believe this is a form of 'unity' not unity as understood in the English vocab anyway, but it is tolerance of other faiths and a beneficial way forward towards 'dawah'. Isn't tolerance better then hatred, no matter what others beliefs maybe?

Teaching righteousness through akhlaq and character and not through indifferences.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 11th June 2013 23:53
Taalibah wrote:
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im just trying to find out the way of the salaf and righteous ulama in matters such as these.

did they tolerate and call for peace and unity with those who cursed and swore at the mother of the believers (rd) and ameerul mumineen hadhrat umar (rd)?

is there any basis for this unity from the salaf and early righteous ulama?

what is the basis from the deen to promote this sort of unity with a religion that promotes kufr and shirk?
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 11th June 2013 23:55
btw i know about the different reasonings such as hikmat and tolerance. but are these reasonings based on the quran and sunnah as understood by the examples of the salaf?
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 12th June 2013 09:50

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Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

There is a clear line of demarcation in Islamic history between Rafidhees (Shias) of before 300 AH and after 300 AH.

  1. Shias of before 300 AH disagreed with the Khilafah of Sayyidina Usman (RA) and that's about it. They didn't revile the Sahaba (RA), tehy followed Sunnah, they didn't have their own Fiqh etc. That's why you see Shia narrators  in Saheeh Bukhari
  2. Rafidhees (Shias) after 300 AH added a whole bunch of things which included the concept of Imamat, reviling the Sahaba, changing of the Qur'aan:
    1. In Pakistan, India & Iran today we have Shia Ithna Ashariyya (twlevers) who are straight up Kaafir
    2. In Syria today we have Alawees who are straight up Kaafir

Those calling for Muslim-Shia unity in India/Pakistan need to clearly EXCLUDE Ithna Ashariyya (twlevers) otherwise it is a very SERIOUS problem!

So you need to define very clearly what you are asking. If you are asking for co-operating with Zaidi Shias of Yemen who are pretty close to Sunnees or some other sects then there is scope but they don't exist in India/Pakistan.

Scholars of India such as Mujaddid Alf Thani (RA) as far back as 1000 AH have clearly written about "Indian" Ithna Ashariyya (twlevers) and clearly called them KAAFIR.

If there are Ulamah who are mingling with them and calling for unity with Ithna Ashariyya (twlevers) then they need to be called out in my opinion. Read this

Maulana Tariq Jameel (HA) retraction of his views about Shia

Jazakullah Khairun
 

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 12th June 2013 12:41
salaam

cant understand the bayan. too much echo. difficult enough for me to understand even without the echo lol.

edit: can someone please summarise it?
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2013 10:26
The BIGGEST problem with any sort of unity between Shia and Sunni is TAQIYAH.

The shia go out of their way to lie and call it Taaqiyah, simply because it is rewarding for them, Especially if they are lying to the Sunni.

If there is any peace treaty between the two, The Sunni Muslims have been FOOLED.

For those who don't know what Taqiyah is should really look into it. The Shia are the biggest liars. A bit like the Jews, the Jews believe "Thou shall not steal" but they take that to be from other Jews, so in other words, the Jews can steal from non-Jews. So that's why they follow "Thou shall not kill" very strongly.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2013 12:32
salaam

my question still stands if anyone can point me in the right direction.

is there any basis on seeking friendship and unity with the shia of today? why do they deserve this special treatment when the same treatment is not given to the qadiyyanis?

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2013 12:48

xs11ax wrote:
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I am not a Scholar but in my opinion there is no unity with Ithna-Asharees because of their leaving Islam jst like Qadiyanees.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2013 12:55
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you are one of the greatest scholars i know shaikh!

btw i bought something on ebay which you might like to take a look at.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2013 18:59
xs11ax wrote:
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Courtesy of Seifeddines thread.


"And do not incline towards the wrongdoers, lest the Fire should catch you." (11:113)

What is the meaning of this 'tilt' and 'inclination'? There are some statements of Sahabah (Companions - radiallahu anhum ajma'een) and Tabi'een (Successors - rahmatullahi alaihim) about it in which there is no contradiction or difference. They are all correct in their respective places.


1) Sayyidna Qatadah رضي الله عنه said, it means, 'do not have friendship with the unjust and do not follow what they say.'

2) Ibn Jurayj رضي الله عنه said, 'do not nurse a leaning of any kind towards the unjust.'

3) Abu al-'Aliyah رضي الله عنه said, 'do not like everything they do.' (Qurtubi)

4) Al-Suddiyy رضي الله عنه said, 'do not court the favour of the unjust through servile flattery (mudahanah), that is, do not observe silence or show your approval at their evil deeds.'

5) 'Ikrimah رضي الله عنه said, 'do not sit in the company of the unjust.'

Qadi al-Baidaawi رضي الله عنه said, 'following them in personal looks, fashion, and ways of living are all included under this very prohibition.'

Qadi al-Baidawi رضي الله عنه also said that this verse exudes the highest imaginable degree of severity in the matter of prohibition and unlawfulness of injustice and oppression. The reason is that it not only prohibits friendship, and all other cordial relationships, with the unjust but, going farther ahead, it also prohibits the least possible inclination towards them, or even sitting with them.

Imam 'Abdur-Rahman ibn 'Amr Al-Awza'i رضي الله عنه said, 'with Allah Ta'ala no one is as detested as the 'Alim (religious scholar) who, for the sake of his worldly interest, goes to meet someone unjust.' (Mazhari)

According to the Tafsir of Imam al-Qurtubi رضي الله عنه, this verse tells us that it is obligatory (waajib) to abstain from the company of those who disbelieve (kafirs), those who disobey (sinners) and those who innovate in the established religion (practitioners of bid'ah) - unless they have to be met under some compulsion.

The truth of the matter is that company and social setting play a major role in one's betterment or corruption. (Ma'ariful Qur'an)

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 14th June 2013 19:40
Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) has mentioned;

يُخَالِلُالرَّجُلُ عَلَى دِينِ خَلِيلِهِ فَلْيَنْظُرْ أَحَدُكُمْ مَنْ

"A person is on the religion (way) of his friend, so let one of you look whom he befreinds"(Sunnan Aabu Dawood)

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 15th June 2013 01:43
tariq jameel wants peace and tolerance with these people???

*warning: very graphic video of a man being beaten to death, doused in petrol and burnt.*

muslim iraqi beaten to death, doused in petrol and burnt in the streets - because his name was umar.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfJMy61w1Qo
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 15th June 2013 11:43
abu mohammed wrote:
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Pathetic bunch of people. There can be no reasoning with such people.

Any scholar who even thinks about peace and unity with such people has no respect from me. And I'm not sorry to say that.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 15th June 2013 11:58
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