Beware! Tablighi Jamaat is full of Magicians

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 13:40

Asalam o Alaikum,

Although I disagree with some aqaid of TJ. Although I don't agree with some of their beliefs and behaviour towards other workers of deen. Although it has many faults. But still, my heart is attracted to this blessed work. I know not what magic these tablighis have. I cannot explain my kaifiyaat here. The rational part of me doesn't accept that this is the ultimate solution. I still believe in khilafah. However, the emotional part of me is highly attracted to this work.

I feel a feeling that Allah has done my tashkeel straight from Alam e Arwah to this dunia as a da'aee and tablighi. As if he has written it for me in the tablet. As if it is predestined for me. As if I have no free choice in regards to this. As if I was born to do this. I have analyzed this blessed work from various angles and no matter from which angle I have analyzed, I have come to the same conclusion that it is haq. 3 days ago a jamaat came to our town in which there were some saathis of South Africa too. I discussed many things with a jamaati dr. and he tried his best according to his knowledge to satisfy me. Although, I didn't changed my mind but later on during Asr prayer, I felt something moving in my heart. Something deep. That despite the fact, it is not a perfect and ultimate solution but still it has many benefits. We must do whatever we can. However, we mustn't leave online dawah and keep on polishing our intellect and improve the quality of our tabligh and amaal through ilm and tazkiyah.

I have come to this conclusion that even if we have differences with this work, we shouldn't completely leave it and do it to the level we feel comfortable. Don't agree with juhalah but still don't leave this work because of them. Not everyone is on the same level of taqwah and knowledge.

My request to Tablighi Brothers. Do not criticize other works of deen just to prove that this work is better. It already has it's fadhail and no one is stealing those fadhail from you. So remain in limits. Otherwise sensitive brothers like me will get offended and you will be blamed if anyone starts distancing from this work because of some of your mistakes. Don't insist. Just be polite. Some members in this forum have discussed things with me so harshly that they have unknowingly increased my love for Tablighi brothers who are mostly polite. Also don't fit ayaat related to jihad on tabligh. There are many verses related to dawah and tabligh. Remain in limits please.

Insha Allah, I intend to spend 40 days each year in this work of deen. However, I have some disagreement with local tarteeb.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 16:20

May I ask which city you are in? I am rather shocked to hear of your experience with the Tablighi saathis who are critical of other shoba-e-deen. In all the years that I have known and been a part of this work, I have hardly met any saathis who haven't been simply neutral and very much un-opinionated. Which can sometimes be frustrating but the positive in this is that I have barely seen any of the Tablighi saathis criticize any effort of deen. And almost all the Tablighi saathis I have met have been just as passionate about Tasawuff as they are about Tabligh. Not to mention that the belief that many carry that this work is the predecessor to the army of Mahdi.

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fod1083

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 18:13

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Brother actually! It is a very huge jamaat and people of various IQ levels and knowledge and background are a part of it. It is unfortunate that some of the elders criticize mujahideen in front of 10,000s of laymen like me. And as a result many of them get affected and then their attitude towards other shobas get corrupted. I have listened from almost every tablighi that this is the only work of deen. This is the best work of deen.

Okay! I acknowledge that this is the base but it is not all. It is not the end but means to an end. When emotions get hold of aqal then this stupidity happens regardless of which institution you belong to. This is the biggest jamat and we lack good ulema to lead every jamaat in this grand movement. So this is the problem that not many able men are there to guide the masses. Halanke, if they pay a little bit attention while reading Fadhail e Amaal, they will not get these kind of nonsense ideas. Shaitan is playing with their minds to ruin their deeds.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 18:15

It is my belief that there should be a four month or forty days essential lim training in the Markaz and after that should the saathis go out for dawah.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 18:38

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

A local alim who used to teach at dewsbury markaz said...

"We are not against tabligh jamaat, tabligh jamaat makes us go against tabligh jamaat."

If tabligh jamaat just stuck to their own usools then their wouldn't be any reason to be against tabligh jamaat. But when they criticise other efforts and start misappropriating certain ayats and hadith and hold themselves to be the only jamaat that Muslims should join, then is it any wonder that some groups and people lash out against tabligh jamaat.

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 20:24

Apologies, I am new to posting and have no idea how to reply to a post. But to the brother who recommends a 4 month or 40 days basic ilm course, what type of ilm do you suggest should be taught?

I ask this as I personally feel it is fine as is. The 6 points provides a very solid basis for someone to live his life according to Deen, furthermore, while out in Jamaat on a daily basis, muzaakiras take place covering a variety of basic topics like istinja, wudhu, ghusl, aadaab of the Masjid, Salaah etc.

Furthermore, the point on ilm encourages those in Jamaat to consult with ulama on matters pertaining to their situation enabling them to live their life according to the commands of Allah. Obviously different people have different cases and a man working as a lawyer doesn't need to know whether you're allowed to work in a bank as an example.

In addition to the above, taalim takes place which no matter the criticisms, those fadhaail books are amazing and have tons of gems waiting to be uncovered.

Please do not misunderstand me, I am not here for a debate or anything of the sort, I would just like to know that for the man on the street, considering the above, what more does he need?

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Truth-Seeker

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2019 20:50

Very true OP.

They worked their magic on me over 20 years ago Alhumdulillah.

However, I only went jamaat one and a half times.

I disagree with a lot of their methods in the UK (I don't know about the rest of the world) maybe things have changed in twenty plus years, but I doubt it.

I have many debates with them on many levels, especially their misuse of Quran and Hadith.

The 6 points post - I disagree with that (above)

No doubt that are essential, but not the only thing.

In my short time with the jamaat, I learnt so much by listening, reading etc etc, but when I faced the world and saw the fallacies, I had to re-educate myself with what was Sunnah and what was not, what actually was Sahih and what was not, what actually was our Aqeedah and what was not.

The TJ's of then, seriously needed to be educated and not only taught stories. They lacked scholars in their jamaats, they lacked on authenticity and relied purely on experience and stories.

It was unfortunate that my father got a complaint from the mosque that I was causing Fitnah. When all I did was proved the narrations to be authentic but in context! Fortunately my father couldn't stand them from his days back in his country, so he wasn't really bothered. In fact it was better for him that I stayed away. Of course, back then my father was a Barelwi.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 03:46

Truth-Seeker wrote:

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I have been in this jamaat for almost 8 years now. I have spent four months in 2017. Before that I have spent two chillas. During the four months, Allah has given me taufeeq of going to paidal chillah in Balochistan, Kolu. Let me assure you.

1. Only some ameers do muzakira of essentials. It is a rule in jamaat that because people belong to different fiqhi madhahib, so amaal related to individuals must be learned from local ulema to avoid ikhtilaf while during khurooj focus only on amaal related to tabligh.

2. Yes muzakirah does happen if the amir is alim too and the jamaat consists of locals and of only one madhab but that is not sufficient as that is not fully focused. I believe the time given on these type of muzakiras is insufficient.

3. If I trust what you have said then tell me why so many tablighis don't observe the adaab of masjid. Why do they do la'yani even when there are other people offering prayers or reciting quran. In the name of (diljoi) consoling new members, even senior members start cracking jokes in front of locals. What image and impact will it have on locals. I have seen it myself numerous times.

4. The most important thing to be learned in Markaz is correct aqaid, adaab of mehfil and masjid and most essential fiqh. Also recitation with Tajweed of at least last juz should be corrected so that if locals in a village or small city request the tablighis to teach them basic tajweed or basic fiqh then each tablighi member is able to do so correctly.

5. If you study the life of Shaykh Bahauddin Zakariya RH of Suharwardiya silsila, you will learn that he established khanqah in Multan and there he would teach his disciples for almost five or so years and teach them the essentials of deen, would do their tarbiyah, teach them the language and culture of people of places where they would be sent to do their dawah and then after that would send them to tashkeels with money and merchandise so that they could do trade alongside dawah and would not need the help of locals or other people and would be self sufficient.

6. Our buzurgs should replicate some part of Shaykh Bahauddin Zakariya's Rh strategy.

7. Also, members who haven't spent 4 months must not be given bayans. Ulema must be made head of the jamaats. Akabireen sitting on mimbar must be careful while speaking. Should only focus on sahih hadith and correct interpretation of Quran.

8. Don't intentionally lie to attract people in your jamaat. Let me assure you that amaal of deen are so powerful that every person in his right mind will be attracted to this blessed work automatically. However, if you start quoting weak hadith or say things without knowledge, then you will distance those who find out later on that these tablighis have quoted weak or fabricated ahadith.

9. If you want to give dawah to others then ikhlas alone is not enough. Correct knowledge is also necessary. So seek more knowledge and improve your dawah. You are going to give dawah to different types of people so you need to know their psyche and from what angle they are giving you arguments. For that you need more knowledge and insight.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 04:05

sipraomer wrote:

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Respected Sir:

May I bring to your notice that it was the opinion of Mufti e Azam of Darul Uloom Deoband, Mahmoodul Hasan Gangohi (rh), that the ayat and ahadeeth of the fadhail of qital could be used for the blessed work of dawah and tabligh and the conditions under which it was permissible. Maulana Ilyas Ghumman (db) certainly holds an opposing view, and he is probably the most gifted tarjuman (translator) of the Akabir Ulama e Deoband. So can we say that the issue is not without disagreement? Maybe it is due to the different geopolitical realities of the countries to which the two belong to? (Mufti Mahmoodul Hasan did mention this obliquely in his fatwa).

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 04:10

sipraomer wrote:

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This is what Maulana Ilyas Ghumman (db) has been saying for a long time. "Give three days a month to tabligh for fadhail, and give three days a year to me at Markaz Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa Gujranwala for aqaid and dalail."

Hazrat's malfooz:

"Fadhail sey imaan banta hai, (aqaid aur) dalail sey imaan bachta hai."

"Fazail makes imaan, (aqaid and) dalail saves imaan."

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 07:05

abuzayd2k wrote:

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If a senior alim who knows all the fiqhi details and knows what he is doing uses it and then is questioned by anyone then he can answer and explain the situation. However, if a layman like me does the same thing then can't answer other people's questions and thus it will impact negatively and degrade the image of this beautiful work.

Tabligh and Jihad do have some similarities but they are not one and single effort.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 07:26

sipraomer wrote:

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That is exactly why the Tablighi workers are discouraged from trying to answer people's queries on fiqhi masail and all. Our elders have told us how to handle a situation like this where people are asking you. Just tell them to ask their local ulema. The first and foremost principle that is taught by the elders is that while doing the work of Tabligh don't think of yourself as the person who will bring them to islah. Your intention is self-islah and bringing your own self to the complete practice of deen. We do it through the work of dawah. When you are inviting someone to pray in the masjid, the intention is to make it easier for yourself to do that too. Through repeated utterances of some message you are supposed to solidify it's impact in your own heart. The Tablighi workers are strongly discouraged to discuss and debate fiqhi masail and to guide people regarding them. That is for the ulema to handle.

If however, someone is more inclined towards helping people with the fiqhi masail, then the way forward is clear for them. Enroll in a madressah and complete the study for an aalim. There is no reason why you can't be an aalim AND go in Tabligh. I have met plenty of young aalims in jamaat.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 10:26

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

The usools of tabligh jamaat are absolutely great. But the ground realities are completely different. If they stuck to their usools then I would still be a part of tabligh jamaat. In my youth my intention was to join with tabligh jamaat in my own country and join a different effort when in another country. Instead they gave me an ultimatum. After I returned home from a different effort from a different country I went for 40 days khurooj in Europe. Towards the end of the khurooj an ijtima took place in Europe which our jamaat attended. In the ijtima I was called by Hafez Patel Saheb one night. He basically said to me if you are going to do tabligh then do tabligh, if you are going to do the other effort then do that. But you can't do both together. So I chose the other effort. This resulted in a lot of slander and abuse from people who i once considered my brothers. The tablighis from my locality were instructed to run a propaganda campaign against those who left tabligh jamaat for the other effort. The ones carrying out the campaign were the mashallah full tarteeb purana sathis. I was very young then. Around 19 years old. Older tablighis would stop their cars in the middle of the streets to swear at and abuse me. One sathi wanted to fight me on the masjid steps after salaat. The Dewsbury markaz shura went and gave my name as well as some other names to the British government. These are just a few incidents. Which point does this come under in the 6 qualities?

I don't know what tabligh jamaat of today you people have experienced. But my experience was and is very different. I have no problem with the tabligh jamaat that was introduced by moulana Ilyas. But the tabligh jamaat of today is not the same.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 13:58

xs11ax wrote:

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I am saddened to hear that. This is not 6 numbers. This is indeed fanaticism.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2019 14:10

xs11ax wrote:

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Wa alaykum as salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu:

This is why certain Ulama have always stressed that the leadership of the tablighi jamat should be under the direct guidance of the Ulama of their locality. It is the responsibility of the local leadership to approach the Ulama and request their guidance. The situation in the UK has been that the Ulama who could contribute positively distanced themselves from the jamat due to the mistakes of the top leadership.

However, because the work has arguably resulted in more good than evil, then is the UK not better off having the tablighi jamat in its current flawed form?

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Beware! Tablighi Jamaat is full of Magicians

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