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When the Hadith is authentic then that is my Madhab

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2010 17:19
A common question we get asked is about the statements from the four Imams about stronger opinions.

The Deception of the Ghair Muqalid with their question.

This is one example of the deception they employ to hoodwink the unwary and the ignorant.

They attack on TAQLEED

While they decry Taqleed; jeer at it; speak mockingly of it and villify the Muqallideen who follow the Ulama and Fuqaha of the Salaf with epithets such as 'cows' and 'dogs' 'blindly following' rulings of others, these Ghair Muqallids cite the very great Fuqaha of the Salaf to support their baatil contentions of admut taqleed or the renunciation of Taqleed or their blind following of their opinions of desire. In substantiation of their claim they present the well-known statements of the Fuqaha and Aimmah Mujtahideen of the Salf-e-Saalihoon such as:


"When you find in my kitaab anything contradicting the Sunnah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) then say (i.e. command) the Sunnah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and leave aside my statement."
(Imaam Shaafi)

"When the Hadith is established as authentic in opposition to my statement, then act according to the Hadith and abandon my statement."
(Imaam Shaafi)

"When the authenticity of the Hadith is established, then that is my Madhab."
(Imaam Shaafi)


Similar statements have been attributed to Imaam Abu Hanifah by Ibn Abdul Barr. Imaam Sha'raani too attributes similar statements to Imaam Abu Hanifah. In Raddul Mukhtaar, Allaamah Beeri narrating from Sharah Hidaayah of Ibn Shuhnah says:


"When the Hadith is authentic then that is my Math-hab."
(Imaam Abu Hanifah)
"

The authenticity of these statements is not contested. However, neither do these Ignorant Ghair Muqallids understand the meaning of these statements nor do their audiences. The audience being unschooled in the higher knowledge of the Shariah simply take in what is gorged out by the devious speakers of this sect. They claim to be the followers of the Salaf. In their definition of the Salaf they quite rightly include the Fuqaha and Ulama of Quroon-e-Thalaathah (the first three glorious epochs of Islam)-the age of the Sahaabah, Taabieen and Tab-e-Taabieen. The Aimmah Mujtahideen which include the four illustrious Imaams of the Four Madhabs of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah are all part of the Salaf.

While these fools seek to eke out unbridled rejection of Taqleed for every man in the street on the basis of the aforementioned statements attributed to the great Imaams, the great Ulama who follow these Aimmah Mujtahideen aver otherwise. Commenting on these statements,



Imaam Nawawi (rahmatullah alayh) says: "This which Imaam Shaafi has said does not mean that everyone who sees a Saheeh Hadith should say: 'This is the Madhab of Shaafi, thus practising on the zaahir (text/external or apparent meaning) of the Hadith.
"

[h]This most certainly applies to only such a person who has the rank of Ijtihaad in the Madhab.[/h] It is a condition that he overwhelmingly believes that Imaam Shaafi was unaware of this Hadith or he was unaware of its authenticity. And this is possible only after having made a research of all the books of Shaafi and similar other books of the Ashaab of Shaafi, those who take (knowledge) from him, and others similar to these (books). This is indeed a difficult condition (to fulfil). Few are there who measure up to this (standard).

What we have explained has been made conditional because Imaam Shaafi had abandoned acting on the zaahir (text) of many Ahadith which he saw and knew. However by him was established proof for criticism in the Hadith or its abrogation or its specific circumstance or its interpretation, etc. (hence he was constrained to leave aside the hadith)."
(I'laaus Sunan, Vol. 2, page 225)

Shaikh Abu Amr (rahmatullah alayh) said:

"It is not easy to act according to the apparent (zaahir) text of what Imaam Shaafi said. It is not lawful for (even) every Faqeeh (qualified Aalim who has deep insight) to act independently with that which he opines to be proof from the Hadith." (I'laaus Sunan, Vol. 2, page 225)


It also appears in I'laaus Sunan of Muhaddith Zafar Ahmad Uthmaani (rahmatullah alayh):

"Imaam Sha'raani has also narrated it (i.e. the statement 'When the authenticity of a Hadith is established it is my Math-hab.'), attributing it to the four Imaams. It is not hidden (from understanding) that this is for the one who has the ability (insight and qualification) in the Nusoos and the knowledge of its clear laws and its abrogations." (Volume 2, page 226)


Discussing this statement in his treatise,

Shaikh Yusuf Bin Ismaail Nibhaani says:

"Verily, the statement: 'When the Hadith has been authenticated, then it is my Madhab' has been narrated from each one of these four Imaams who were free from personal opinion. The audience to whom this statement ('When the Hadith is Saheeh it is my Madhab.') was directed, is only his (the Imaam's) Ashaab (the Fuqaha of his Madhab) who were great and illustrious Aimmah fully qualified in the rational and narrational sciences (of the Deen). (And the statement is directed to) those who came after these illustrious Aimmah among the great Ulama of his Madhab, those who were the Ahlut Tarjeeh (a high category of Ulama). All of them who were the Haafizeen of the Hadith of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) were fully aware of the daleels (proofs) of all the Madhabs.........These are the ones whom the Imaam (of the Madhab) had directed his statement: 'When the Hadith is Saheeh, it is my Madhab.'....Verily, they (these great Fuqaha) are able to reconcile between the Hadith from which the Imaam had derived proof, and the (latest) Hadith which was established as authentic after the Imaam. They (these illustrious Fuqaha) can see which of the two Hadiths is more authentic, stronger and which of the two Hadiths is the later one so that the later one can be the Naasikh (abrogator) for the earlier one."
(Hujjatullah alal Aalameen)

DONT BE FOOLED BY CLEVER WORDS, DO YOUR RESEARCH, FOLLOW THE HAQ.

IT IS SAFER TO FOLLOW ONE OF THE 4 SCHOOLS OF THOUGHTS
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2010 17:19
When a man wishes to unfetter himself from the restrictions of the Shariah and the Sunnah in the present day, the solution for him is to become a so-called Ghair Muqallid. Once he joins this deviant sect, he is free to find expression for his nafsaani opinions. In order to draw unwary and ignorant Muslims into its fold of dhalaal and baatil, the modernists employ deception on a large scale.

A salient feature of this sect of baatil is their rejection of the Madhabs of the Salf-e-Saalihoon. Inspite of their rejection of the Madhaahib of Haqq espoused by the Salf-e-Saalihoon, these mudhilleen (deviates who lead others astray) seek to bamboozle the unwary and the ignorant by making ostentatious claims of their 'Love' and 'respect' for the Ulama and Fuqaha. The masses are ignorant. They lack the knowledge to distinguish between right and left; they do not possess the ability to verify and understand the statements of the Fuqaha which these deviates selectively quote to bolster their corruptive arguments.

(Taken from the book of Taqleed)
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2010 17:51
Strong words but necessary. This argument is commonly used and its very well explained masha Allah..may Allah accept and make it a means of guidance for many
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 1st November 2010 18:15
ummi taalib wrote:
Strong words but necessary. This argument is commonly used and its very well explained masha Allah..may Allah accept and make it a means of guidance for many


I was told by a salafi when he was trying to prove me wrong "The Truth Hurts". I accepted his word and gave him the truth. He is still recovering by looking for a counter arguement.

Khair, those words are the words of a scholar. InshaAllah, I will try to get references.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 15:32
Maulana Yasin or any of the authorizers, Brother Sohael would like to reply to the post but is unable to do so, what needs to be done?

In the mean time, I have taken the comments from my blog and pasted them for any to reply to.

Quote:
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010:good points - but how about where ulama themselves have come to an ijmaa on an issue for a particular opinion contradicting what is attributed to a particular school of thought.
I dont think those you refer to as ghair muqallids (not the informed ones anyway) go and dig up a hadith and then just apply it like that. They generally refer to the strngest opinion as expressed by the jamhoor al ulama. Indeed isnt that safer then sticking to just one school rigidly?
Doesnt Allah AWJ Himself command us to refer back to Him and His messenger(saw) on matters in which we differ? So then how could we justify following all of the opinions of one school rigidly when we know that some of the opinions may be incorrect and contested by other mujtahideen. Eg; Would it be wrong for a Shafi to abandon the ruling that touching a woman breaks wudu? Especially after knowing the the majority of ulama of the salaf oppose this understanding of shafi رضي الله عنه.
A person thus following only the commands of a particular madhab would be doing injustice by not attaining the correct ruling on ertain issues.
Also when Allah refers to obedience, one of the categories He mentions are those in power over us. This has been interpreted in tafseer as the leaders and the ulama. Allah didnt singularise and ask us to follow just one alim here did he?
Also when Allah(saw) says (translation) fas'aloo ahl ad dhikr he refered to the asking the 'people of dhikr' , not a singular alim?

Thus the concept of following only one imam blindly is not balanced, especially when Islam does not rigidly state that to be correct.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 15:34
This was the reply from the blog to brother Sohael.

Jazakallah for taking the time to read the post and also for taking out the time to comment. Jazakallah.

I would be greatfull if you would post your comments on the forum, this way every body can see what is being discussed and can also agree or disagree with both of our statements.

If the majority of the Ulama of the Shafi' Madhab disagree with that opinion, then that would become the new rule for them. Similarly in the Hanafi Madhab, when something new comes about, the Ulama add to the Hanafi school, the new rule, we dont just stick to Imam Abu Hanifa and the old rules. The Hanafi school consists of all the top scholars / Ulama of the Hanafi school. When there is a need to adopt a new rule, they adopt it. I'm not a Shafi' so I guess I dont have to worry to much about that. But being a Hanafi myself, can you tell me one Mas'ala in the Hanafi school that contradicts the Quran or the Sunnah?

see my other posts regarding the comments of Imam Abu Hanifa by the teachers of Imam Bukhari. These teachers were also Hanafi and were more knowledgable that imam Bukhari.

Sometimes these Ulama of the Salaf (i.e. Imam Malik) would go against the Hadith they would quote in their own books and practice something completely different. For example, Imam Malik narrates the Hadith of Raful Yadain in his Muwatta but this is not part of their school. Now if the Ulama say that we have all the evidence in the world in one database, and we think that Imam Malik was wrong here, what would you say?

Imam Malik had the advantage of eyewitnessing the practice of the Ulama, Tabi'een, Tabe Tabi'een etc to conclude that in the city of our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW) in the era just after the Prophet (SAW), the practice of Raful Yadain is not in existance. So why follow the Hadith which shows clearly the practice of Raful Yadain. The actions of the people of Madinah was evidence for the abrogation.

Today, we have the knowledge etc compiled but what we dont have is the eyewitness accounts of what took place, the tone of voice being used whilst narrating, we dont see people like the students of the narrators of those Hadith about raful yadain etc. another example, Abdullah ibn Umar narrates the Hadith about Raful Yadain, fine, it was done he and many Sahaba narrated it. But ibn Umars student (Sorry I cant recall the name) said raful yadain was not the practice of the his teacher, another sign of abrogation. These four Imams were witnesses to these things and it was by the will of Allah that the rules of Fiqh came into place before Allah sent the compilers of Hadith.

The Concept of following one school is safer rather than trying to select the strongest opinions by our selves. I would only pick and choose the strongest opinions if I had a time machine, I would be able to go back and see/hear the Hadith they way it should have been heard etc..

InshaAllah I will put your comment and this reply into the forum if I dont hear from you. Salaam
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 15:35
Quote: sohael wrote on 02/11/2010



JazaakhAllah- sorry brother but I don not know how to post on the forum.



In answer to your wise questions:



1)But being a Hanafi myself, can you tell me one Mas'ala in the Hanafi school that contradicts the Quran or the Sunnah?



Off the top of my head, I recall a much deeper matter. And that is that according to (need to verify this) Ali al-Qari's naming two chapter-titles of his Sharh al-fiqh al-akbar: "Belief neither increases nor decreases".



Also according to Mufti Ebrahim Desai, in Mirqaat Vol. 1 pg. 49 Ashrafiyyah , Imaam Abu Hanifah, the Ashaa'irah (according to one narration) and the Maaturidiyyah hold that 'A'amaal are not a condition for Imaan.



This is completely at odds with both Quraan, sunnah and ijma.



Therefore, in this aspect , naturally one who follows the illustrious hanafi school will have to differ, otherwise he will end up with irjaa.



'see my other posts regarding the comments of Imam Abu Hanifa by the teachers of Imam Bukhari. These teachers were also Hanafi and were more knowledgable that imam Bukhari.'



Yes but Bukharee himself is reported to have classed Imam Abu Hanifa as weak in hadith. Also, Ibn Al Mubarak رضي الله عنه who was known as the scholar of the east and west left the hanafi school whilst Imam Tahawi joined the Hanafi school- these things show that those in the past would take and leave rulings once establishing possibly what was correct for them.



'Sometimes these Ulama of the Salaf (i.e. Imam Malik) would go against the Hadith they would quote in their own books and practice something completely different. For example, Imam Malik narrates the Hadith of Raful Yadain in his Muwatta but this is not part of their school. Now if the Ulama say that we have all the evidence in the world in one database, and we think that Imam Malik was wrong here, what would you say?'



But Raf Al Yadain is also not part of the hanafi school , yet we see hanafi ulama like Shawkani allowing it. We also see illustrious students of Abu Hanifa like Abu yusuf differing with him on fiqhi matters in aspects that also are not officially recognised by the hanafi school. This is not something strange.



'So why follow the Hadith which shows clearly the practice of Raful Yadain. The actions of the people of Madinah was evidence for the abrogation'



But there were also sahabah whos words indicate that the Prophet (saw) never left Raf alyadain (an indication for non abrogation)- so why negate what they said? Wouldnt it be more balanced to quote this aspect of salah as an ikhtilaaf? If Malik didnt do it, thewhat about ahmed ibn Hambal and Shafi who did recognise it? Surely we should recognise it at the most as an ikhtilaf since that was how our pre-decessors dealt with it.



Also is what you said about Malik accurate?



Ibn Abdilbirr said; "No one narrates from Maalik leaving raf'ul yadein except Ibn Qaasim. And the one we follow is raising hands based upon the hadith of Ibn Umar and this is what Ibn Wahb and others have narrated from Maalik and Tirmizi narrated from Maalik nothing except this"; And Khattabi said and Qurtubi followed him in Almufhim that this (doing raful yadein) is the last and more correct of Maalik's opinion.



For the sake of argument, even if it was not in existance in Madinah, then can we negate the indicated practice of some sahabah following it as shown in Bulugh al Maram? If that is the case then we would be indirectly saying that some sahabah were wrong. And that would be wrong in itself. BTW if you could bring me the authenticated quote of Ibn Umars student then it would be helpful.



Because as far as I know the reality of the quote is very murky.



I know that you are speaking based on the narration of Mujahid form Ibn Umar that he did not do it. And they (muhadditheen) replied with criticizind the chain of narrators saying its narrator 'Abubakr bin Ayyash's' memory became bad inhis later years. Even if its chain is correct then Saalim, Naafi and others who were studentsof Ibn Umar affirm Raful Yadein from Ibn Umar And more is preferred over less (number of narrators), especially if the majority is affirming and the single person (mujahid) is negating. Also the combining of the two narrations is possible that Ibn Umar did not think it is Waajib, doing it sometimes and leaving it at other times. And what tells you about the weakness of it is what is narrated by Bukhari in Juzz Raful Yadein from Maalik that Ibn Umar whenever he used to see a person not raising hands when going for rukoo and when getting up from it, he would through pebbles at him.



Thus your narration regarding Mujahid is very weak to say the least with all due respect.



'The Concept of following one school is safer rather than trying to select the strongest opinions by our selves. I would only pick and choose the strongest opinions if I had a time machine, I would be able to go back and see/hear the Hadith they way it should have been heard etc.. '



I think we have quotes from the sahabah that nobody is to be followed blindly except Muhammad (saw).



BaarakAllaahu feek for your enlightening discussion brother - I truly have gained much. May Allah reward you for your zeal and guide us all to what pleases him, ameen



ps : Some further information regarding Bukharis teachers who you mentioned:



Bukhari narrated from his teacher Ali Alnmadini right after the hadith of Ibn Umar in this chapter: It is Haq (right) upon the Muslims to raise their hands when doing rukoo and when getting up fro it beacause of this hadith of Ibn Umar, as in the narration of Ibn Asaakir. Bukhari narrated this in Juzz Raf'ul Yadein and added: Ali Almadeeni was the most knowledgeable of his contemporaries. And opposing it is the saying of some hanafis that raf'ul yadein nullifies the prayers. And some people of the West who came later said the doer of Raf'ul yadein is an innovator, and so some of their (probably the muhadditheen) researchers were inclined to stop doing raf'ul yadein as a means of stopping this evil (of being labelled innovators), as narrated by Ibn Daqeeq Aleed. And Bukhari said in Juzz Raf'ul Yadein "Whovever claimed thisis an innovation has criticized the Sahabah, because none of them have been narrated of not doing raf'ul yadein" and he said "and neither are the narrations of not doing more authentic than the narrations of doing Raf'ul Yadein". And Allah knows best. And Bukhari also mentions that 17 sahabah narrated this. Alhaakim and Abulqaasim bin mandah mentioned that among them are the Asharah Mubasharrah bil jannah (10 sahabah promised paradise)



Please fell free to add this to the forum dear brother- and I apologise for not being able to add it myself.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 15:36
Jazakallah, I will add these to the forum as quoted by you. and I will try to find out why you cant reply in the forum. You may need to register, I'm not sure.

Raful Yadain is not Biddah, it is something that can be done or left in the Hanafi Madhab. I was only using it as an example. Imam Abu Hanifa was not weak in Hadith, infact he was so strong in Hadith that Imam Bukharis teacher commended him (Yahya ibn Saeed al Qattan). Abdullah ibn Mubarak was one of the greatest Mujtahid Imams that ever lived, he passed Fatawa accordinh to the Hanafi school, take a look at my other posts. InshaAllah I will try to put something together about Imam Abu Hanifa himself. Some of the comment you have made are not correct. InshaAllah they shall be clarified by myself or others.

Salaam.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 17:27

Hmm, I'll look into this error. Page just stops

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 17:39
It was the quote bbcode. I'll check the cause as soon as possible. Wassalam
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 20:34
Quote:
sohael wrote on 02/11/2010:
I do not hold the view that AbuHanifa رضي الله عنه was weak in hadith. However, there are quotes attributed to the salaf that this was the caes.
I think Ibn al Mubarak was the one who praised Abu Hanifa in fiqh yet classed him as weak in hadith. Thus the status of Abu Hanifah as a master faqeeh is not being questioned.
Ibn Al Mubarak became independent of the hanafi school at a later time- correct me if im wrong.
It is possible that Bikahri didnt agree with ibn Qattan on the discussed issue.
I deleved into Raf al yadayn in more detail in order to establish that the quotes you were relying on have been criticized heavily bu ulama. This is an example of where one opinion is given weight over another or reconciliation is made.
Just one question brother, do you agree that Iman goes up and down or are you of the belief that it is constant?

ps: Please accept my apologies for the terrible grammar in my writing!

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 20:35
Iman is constant for the angels, increases/strengthens for the Ambiyah and fluctuates for the believer.

Now to use this comment and to show that Imam Abu Hanifa says somthing else, then you havent understood his work correctly. Many people have criticised the work of Imam Abu Hanifas work "Fiqh al Akbar" and are wrong in doing so. These people comment without reading it or understanding it.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 20:37
Quote:
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010:
another reason why raf alyadayn may be beneficial to discuss is because after looking around at this website, it is apparent that there is a lot of (or what seems to be) anti raf al yadayn sentiment expressed in some the articles.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 20:45
Quote:
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010:
another reason why raf alyadayn may be beneficial to discuss is because after looking around at this website, it is apparent that there is a lot of (or what seems to be) anti raf al yadayn sentiment expressed in some the articles.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd November 2010 20:46
Sorry for the delay, I'm at work.

anyway, the site is not anti raful yadain, the site has people posting their own views to help or strengthen their knowledge according to the absurd questioning by the gahir muqallideen.

Shaykh Riyadhul Haq mentions in one of his talks, that every single Sahaba that narrated a Hadith for Raful Yadain also narrated its abrogataion except Abdullah ibn Masud. Allhu Allam. I'm not a scholar of any thing let alone Hadith.
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