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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 29th November 2011 21:47
"Yasin" wrote:
I hope my questions were not taken as challenging our own Fiqh. I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to prove something which is false as true when things are taken as literally as Salafis take some verses and Ahadeeth with complete disregards to important points.


There is a narration by Hadhrat Ali رضي الله عنه where he says "When the Imam is hungry, feed him."
(to the nearest meaning)

What can that mean, must WE feed the Imam when ever he is hungry? Is it our responsibility for feeding the Imams.

No, it means, if the Imam makes an error in his recitation during the Salah, we must correct his mistakes.

SubhanAllah, what a metaphor. This is why we need scholars to deduce rulings from Hadith. It is not upto us to come to any form of conclusion as we will make huge errors.

The Sahaba were the masters of the Arabic language and knew what they were talking about and understood the context behind it. This was then taught to the followers of the Sahaba.

There is also another narration from the Prophet SAW about those who will come and narrate and preserve Hadith, but those who narrate will not be able to deduce rules from it. So we have great Imams like Abu Hanifa who was capable of deducing such rules from Quran and Hadith, and we had Imams such as Imam Bukhari who narrated thousands of Hadith but was unable to deduce rulings from them. We know this because Imam Bukhari's student, Imam Tirmidhi would narrate Hadith from Imam Bukhari but conclude that this was the opinion of such and such Imam, mostly Imam Shafi'.

So please don't just pick up a book of Hadith and start taking your own understanding. You WILL be mislead. This needs to be done with the aid of qualified scholars or by scholars only.

Jazakallah
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 29th November 2011 22:17
Please note, the text below is a conversation between a Muqallid scholar and a ghair Muqallid.

abu Mohammed wrote:
Done by the Prophet but its not his Sunnah.

What do the ghair Muqallid say (In Green) compared to what we have to say.

We often hear people saying, that which Nabi (S.A.W) had done is called, Sunnat. To practice on it will earn us rewards, even if he only did it a few times.
This is an incorrect definition of Sunnat. That which Nabi (S.A.W) had done once or twice, or that which Nabi (S.A.W) had discontinued, will not be termed as Sunnat.
Then what is a Sunnat?
That which Nabi (S.A.W) had perpetually done is called Sunnat, while that which
he had stopped doing, or had at some point done but never again done, will not be
Sunnat.
We consider even that which Nabi (S.A.W) had done once to be Sunnat.
Then you probably consider it to be Sunnat to stand and pass urine, because it is
mentioned in the Hadith that Nabi (S.A.W) stood and passed urine on one occasion.
(Bukhari pg 35, 36, 336 vol. 1) And, nowhere in Bukhari Shareef is there any Hadith regarding sitting and passing urine. Not a single place. To make things even better, there is no Hadith regarding sitting and passing urine in Muslim shareef either, but the Hadith of standing and urinating is found there even! (Muslim pg.133 vol.1).
Nabi (S.A.W) had also lifted up a little girl whilst performing salah, (Bukhari pg 74
vol.1 Muslim pg 205 vol.1 ) He had also exposed his shoulder in salah (Abu-Dawud), do you then consider all these to be Sunnat? How many times have you practiced on these Sunnan?
These actions are not Sunnat.
But these acts were carried out by Nabi (S.A.W), but they are not Sunnat.
This is what we are saying; every act of Nabi (S.A.W) is not a Sunnat, eg. He had gargled his mouth while making wudhu, which we consider Sunnat, after wudhu he had kissed his wife; we do not consider this as Sunnat. Both are the actions of Nabi (S.A.W); one is a Sunnat, while the other is not. Similarly, to read the thanaa is Sunnat, but to lift a little girl (in salah) is not Sunnat, whereas he had done both these acts. Every one accepts this, and if both these are Sunnat, according to the first explanation (of Sunnat) earlier, then all those Ghair MuqalliDeen coming into the masjid not carrying a little girl, are guilty of discarding the Sunnat, and in your words, are being deprived of great rewards. You should kindly turn their attention towards this great reward.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 14:02
Can someone kindly clarify for me...

I've heard that the actions of the Sahaba رضي الله عنه also fall into the ambit of Sunnah ? This brother mentioned that students are taught this on the alim course when they learn Usool.

However I spoke to a salafi inclined brother and he rejected this definition of Sunnah, so what is the unanimous accepted definition of Sunnah if their is one amongst the ahlus sunnah ?
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 14:20
Jinn wrote:
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Hanafi Fiqh Channel has a short vid of an excerpt of Allamah Ali Sher Hyderi's bayan with English subtitles. He discusses this issue. One of the few HF vids I like...

Halalified YT Audio
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 14:58

Jinn wrote:
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The Hallmark of the Sahabah, Whenever they came to know of an act which is Sunnah they adopted it not like us when we come to know that an act is Sunnah we leave it.

 

This Salafi shaykh is implying that the Sahabah were not living the Sunnah way. In fact they were not narrating each and every sunnah but propagating every Sunnah. The Salafis have a very degrading attitude towards the Sahabah inclining towards the Rafidis. 

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 15:04
Tafseer wrote:
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I agree with you akhii and I also explained it to him as well, but what he said was you can not take each and everything from the Sahaba رضي الله عنه as they made errors as well. Then he mentioned the famous Ahadith which says to the nearest meaning 'my sahaba are like stars......', he said this is weak/dhaiif so therefore we can't take it.

Therefore I was asking what's the unanimous definition of what actually sunnah is that is accepted by all of ahlus sunnah ?
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 15:09
Jinn wrote:
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The Alim student has Imam Malik as a prime example for back up.

This Salafi inclined brother is using this argument to support their 8 rakats of Taraweeh, one adhan for Jummah not 2, and so on. Where as the we know that we have to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and the 4 rightly guided Caliphs.

On top of the, we were told the best of all people are the Khairul Quroon, i.e. the first 3 generations. Fortunately for us, we have Imam Abu Hanifa as one of them.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 15:26
abu mohammed wrote:
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I agree with all that you have said brother, so basically they're isn't one accepted definition of Sunnah, just interpretation issues ? We take the Sahaba رضي الله عنه as a daleel and they don't.

Also is it the actions of all the Sahaba رضي الله عنه that fall in the ambit of Sunnah or just the Khulaf-e-Rashideen ?
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 15:31
Different Sahaba were at different levels of knowledge. InshaAllah I'll post further links to help out.

I was going through some of the threads and saw this, www.muftisays.com/forums/81-debates--refutations/6384-sal... I guess it'll give you an indication with what you might be facing. (not all of them are like that, some of he brothers are very sincere)
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 16:12
www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/434_08-10-2010/which-...
See link for full article

On many occasions people are confronted by those who are trying to confuse Muslims. (A satanic deception).
They ask certain questions about Schools of thought and try to create confusion amongst the Muslims. I have personally been asked this question many times. I was asked the same Question on my Blog "Reading the Quran during Menstruation". to which I had given a lengthy reply. I have since used the same reply for this blog. (with a little addition)

Firstly I would like to add a Hadith here.

Imam Bukhari has taken proofs from the Quran and Hadith. He has quoted Hadith under the following headings:
"Hold on fast to the Jamaat of Muslims and their Imam"(page 059, Vol 1)
"One who seperates oneself from the Jamaat (of Muslims) even a hand span, will die a death of ignorance"(page 1045, Vol 2)
There is also an order even execute those who seperate themselves from the Jamaat of Muslims and their Imam."...they will leave Islam in the way an arrow leaves its bow...wherever you see them, you should kill them. Their killing will be rewardable on the day of Qiyaamah"(page 75, Vol 2)
"A group of people will emerge from amongst you, who will belittle your Salah over theirs , and your Fasts over teirs, and your actions over theirs, they will recite the Quran, which will not pass their throats (have no effect upon them), the will leave the Deen like an arrow leaves its bow" (page 756, Vol2).
These people will emerge before Qiyaamah. Only those who are deficient in age and knowledge will join them
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2014 20:39
Jinn wrote:
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Read dr76 Sahib's posts in this thread.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 08:44

Jinn wrote:
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Lets 'accept' that the Hadith is Daheef. But the Qur'an is not. Mufti Yusuf Danka's Article on the Status of the Sahabah in the light of Qur'an and Hadith is more than sufficient to show the extremely lofty status of the Sahabah.

www.croydonmosque.com/pdf/The%20Status%20of%20the%20Sahab...

The Salafi is making serious claims by mentioning that the Sahabah made errors. Care to ask him to present only a couple.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 08:50

abu mohammed wrote:
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How to access the debates section? I'm getting a limited access message.

 

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 12:46

From my Salafi days:

Salafi thinking: My teacher had a long discussion with me that every naration pertaining to the reward of wearing a Turban during Salah (or outside) is weak. I checked and researched and sure enough they are indeed weak.

Deobandi thinking: I travelled to Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Bahauddin (HA) and asked for authentic narration of the reward of wearing a Turban and he replied,  Do you accept that wearing a Turban is proven from Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) in an authentic narration?

I said, "Yes"

He said, "We don't care if the reward is mentioned or not or proven authentically"...We follow Sunnah because we believe it to be the only Gateway to Allah (SWT)...

Let those who want to quibble argue about narrations while we follow the Sunnah which we deem to be authentic.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 14:01
Tafseer wrote:
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One, he is not a Salafi but a bit Salafi inclined like many others. I was looking for the definition of Sunnah, I checked Usool Shaashi (Arabic and English ) it does not make any mention of the Sahaba رضي الله عنه as far as I remember, however there are other ahadith that attest to their authority and this means all of them and in particular the first 4. This was also in the article you linked of Mufti Y.Danka.

Secondly, the Sahaaba weren't infallible they did make mistakes, however those are not for us to go into, agree ? Also on top we take the Quran's view ' Radi allaho wa ra du anh'. So that puts that to bed.

Thirdly, Jazakala for the article and in the process I managed to find another article which is I was looking for which should put everything to rest.

www.al-miftah.com/2013/09/04/status-of-the-hadith-my-comp...
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