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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 28th July 2022 17:24
For UK.

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It's a simple idea: We demand the govt scrap the energy price rises and deliver affordable energy for all. We will build a million pledges and by Oct 1st if the govt and energy companies fail to act we will cancel our direct debits. Read more here: t.co/NPF8VQXcHD t.co/E4gPenIXiL

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd August 2022 20:00
Salaam.

These are just my thoughts and I welcome discussions around them.

The organisers of this group are anonymous. Some people speculate that it could be a set up. Either way, if the collective action fails then a lot of people who participated will be in a lot of debt, may face bankruptcy, and could lose everything they have.

Unless I'm missing something, if people stop paying their energy bills then the energy companies will just install pre pay smart meters. If everyone has a pre pay meter then there's nothing we can do. Withhold money from the pre pay meter and you just won't get any energy.

Some people argue that it won't come to pre pay meters or court cases, but I'm not so sure. Most people are scared of the courts and bailiffs knocking on their door. Not everyone can stand up to them. Most people will cave in.

Having said that, if nothing changes then many people will eventually become bankrupt. People are already struggling and have been doing so for quite a while. These recent price hikes may be the tipping point. I can't see how people will survive if prices rise as expected and wages remain the same.

Some people speculate that the price hikes won't just bring the working/lower classes down, but will also bring the middle class down.

I speculate that this could open the way for The Great Reset. If people are bankrupt, miserable, and have nothing, then they will welcome The Great Reset so they can "Own nothing, and be happy", like they keep telling us.

The Covid pandemic/plandemic/scamdemic (whatever you want to call it) has acted as a catalyst to bring in a "New Normal" throughout the world. The ORDER that we had has changed, and a NEW arrangement has been implemented throughout the WORLD. Nations have borrowed billions due to the pandemic. This money will have to be paid back with interest. If it can't be paid back then it will need to be written off. If it gets written off then the economy will need to be rebalanced or RESET.

Life may get very difficult, very soon. We need to wake up and realise that we Muslims are an ummah and we need to work as an ummah. Ulama and community leaders need to make a plan and organise the believers. I'm not saying don't work with or don't help non muslims, but I believe we should give priority to the Muslim ummah.


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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 10:59
I can understand basic concerns but your concerns are way out there:

Quote:
The organisers of this group are anonymous.

As it should be to stop abuse and harassment. This is not a business and there's no contracts and transactions so anonymous is absolutely the way it makes sense. It's nothing new for something to be organised like this.

Quote:
Some people speculate that it could be a set up.

Set up for what exactly?

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Either way, if the collective action fails then a lot of people who participated will be in a lot of debt, may face bankruptcy, and could lose everything they have.
A bit melodramatic but how exactly would not paying in mass protest to being extorted will cause a person to go bankrupt and lose everything?
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 11:27
Yasin wrote:
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Quote:
I can understand basic concerns but your concerns are way out there:


It's not just my concerns. Many others are also asking these questions. In fact, I was only made aware of these concerns due to other people.

Quote:
Quote:
The organisers of this group are anonymous.

As it should be to stop abuse and harassment. This is not a business and there's no contracts and transactions so anonymous is absolutely the way it makes sense. It's nothing new for something to be organised like this.


It's understandable why the organisers would want to remain anonymous, but without knowing who they are I personally would be very wary.

Quote:
Quote:
Some people speculate that it could be a set up.

Set up for what exactly?


A set up to make people do something that may harm them and benefit others instead. Such as getting people into debt and then going after their assets if they can no longer pay.

Quote:
Quote:
Either way, if the collective action fails then a lot of people who participated will be in a lot of debt, may face bankruptcy, and could lose everything they have.

A bit melodramatic but how exactly would not paying in mass protest to being extorted will cause a person to go bankrupt and lose everything?


Withholding payment won't make the debt disappear. The debt will keep increasing. The energy companies may decide to pursue the debts in court and force payment. If the customer cannot make payment then the debt will keep increasing. Eventually the bailiffs might try to satisfy the debt by taking assets. Assets will only be valued at I think 10%? So to satisfy a £1000 debt, assets totalling £10,000 will be taken. If the customer cannot satisfy the debt at all then he might be made bankrupt.

Yes. All this is pure speculation, but so is expecting the energy companies to cave in when people stop paying. They may cave in. They may not. No one knows what will happen.

Is there any precedence for this type of action in order to understand it better? I know about the poll tax, but this is a bit different. If people hold out, then the energy companies can convert people to pre payment meters. I think that would prefer that anyway.


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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 12:54
Quote:
A set up to make people do something that may harm them and benefit others instead. Such as getting people into debt and then going after their assets if they can no longer pay.

How would that benefit the organisers? More importantly, withholding payment is not really going into debt because they would have paid it if it wasn't for the withholding. If they can't afford it then either if they paid or not would put them into debt regardless. So this concern isn't really a concern as it is fear of hassle.

What you mention about debt doesn't happen with energy bills. Even disconnection has to go through courts and has to be in extreme cases. Not paying is a dispute and the complaint has to be left open. For them to get paid, they'll have to give in. I don't see another way. Paying will never fix extortion. I believe this is extortion and personally I'm for this protest.

If anyone is living paycheck to paycheck and by not paying a single bill they'll go into an unrecoverable debt should probably not do this. But the average person can easily do this without consequences. I have not paid in the past when I didn't agree with the charge. In the end, they'll give in to get paid the right amount.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 14:09
Yasin wrote:
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Bear in mind. Everything I'm saying is just speculation.

Quote:
How would that benefit the organisers?


Depends who the organisers are. As it stands, we don't know.

My mind is going towards the great reset. Not just because of the energy hike, but because of all the other price rises (food, fuel etc), land grab by the rich and corporations (bill gates, thomas peterffy), house grabs by corporations.

A big part of the great reset is about taking ownership out of the hands of private individuals and making them rely on government handouts. If people are deep in debt and bankrupt then they will lose everything and will be grateful for government handouts. But I believe these handouts will come at a price.

If the organisers are sincere individuals then it's not going to benefit them. If they are people with another agenda such as the people behind the reset then it could benefit them by making people reliant on handouts

Quote:
More importantly, withholding payment is not really going into debt because they would have paid it if it wasn't for the withholding. If they can't afford it then either if they paid or not would put them into debt regardless. So this concern isn't really a concern as it is fear of hassle.


As long as the payments are satisfied before legal action is taken then I don't see any harm. But then it just becomes a game of chicken. If the energy companies give in first then great. If they don't then the money will have to be paid. If its not paid for whatever reason then the customer will go into debt and will face legal action and be worse off.

Quote:
What you mention about debt doesn't happen with energy bills. Even disconnection has to go through courts and has to be in extreme cases. Not paying is a dispute and the complaint has to be left open. For them to get paid, they'll have to give in. I don't see another way.


In normal times in this situation they would swap the meter for a pre payment meter. I don't know what they would do if everyone stops paying as they won't have the resources to get legal access to the properties and won't have the man power to fit a pre payment meter in every property. But if they could they would definitely install a pre payment meter in every property.

Quote:
Paying will never fix extortion. I believe this is extortion and personally I'm for this protest.


I'm for anything that helps. If this protest helps then alhamdulillah.

The extortion is happening from the wholesalers as far as I'm aware. Not from the energy suppliers. The suppliers are benefiting from it, but the extortion is happening from the wholesale side.

Quote:

If anyone is living paycheck to paycheck and by not paying a single bill they'll go into an unrecoverable debt should probably not do this. But the average person can easily do this without consequences.


40% of UK and 58% of US live paycheck to paycheck according to a quick Google search. I'm guessing that number will increase a lot more if you count people who live month by month.

Quote:

I have not paid in the past when I didn't agree with the charge. In the end, they'll give in to get paid the right amount.


I'm not sure how this works. When you sign up with the suppliers you agree on the price and any price increase. If there are no other factors then legally the customer is liable for that charge.

My supplier wants to triple my direct debit. I told them I can't afford it so I'm still paying my old amount, but my debt with them is increasing everyday. At some point I will have to pay them or I will face legal action and eventually seizure of my assets if I can't pay the debt. If legal action is taken then there will be added costs and added debt.

Again, all this is speculation. But the way things are going in the whole world, I am very sceptical of everything that's going on.

Allah knows best.


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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 14:53
Another issue I've just come across.

1 million households withholding payment isn't really that much.

Beginning of 2022 there were around 60 energy suppliers in the UK. Probably a bit less now. Amongst them there are 6 big suppliers. The 1 million households will be distributed between these suppliers.

If we just take the big 6, 1 million customers between them will be on average 166,666 customers per supplier. This number will be even less when you take into consideration that there are a lot more energy suppliers than just 6.

So will this impact on the energy suppliers be enough to create a chain reaction that will make the wholesalers drop their price?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 15:25
Something else to take into consideration.

Around 50% of meters in the UK are smart meters. They can be converted to pre payment meters at the flick of a switch. Remotely I'm guessing. I know suppliers can't easily disconnect a customer, but they can change them over to pre pay. Pre pay is more expensive and there is no way to not pay that.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd August 2022 18:40
Quote:
Depends who the organisers are. As it stands, we don't know.


We don't know. That's right. So is it guilty until proven innocent here or innocent until proven guilty?

I go with the Islamic standards of Husn Dhann and to appreciate the effort that's clearly identified as for "public" unless I know of a reason not to. So far, speculations isn't enough for me so I'll be joining this effort inshaAllah in hope it makes a difference.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 8th August 2022 00:47
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 9th August 2022 11:34
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