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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 09:27


I have respect and admiration for scientists who have admitted what they got wrong, and also understand that each stage of the pandemic has required a different response, based on the latest data, tools and analysis.

“Experts” and influential people stuck in these Covid camps continue to influence the narrative. In some ways, this keeps us stuck reliving and relitigating arguments from early in the pandemic at the very moment we should be focused on the best evidence and policies to help us “exit” the pandemic safely. This should involve the equitable distribution of vaccines and therapeutics around the globe, protecting those vulnerable to severe disease and rapid-response public health plans based around surveillance. In these moments it’s important to remember the two principles of humility and flexibility in response – and how these don’t fit easily with the new world of media.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 10:40
abu mohammed wrote:
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I agree 100% with what this doctor is saying.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 11:17
sharjan8643 wrote:
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Quote:
I have respect and admiration for scientists who have admitted what they got wrong, and also understand that each stage of the pandemic has required a different response, based on the latest data, tools and analysis.

Current Data (Ironically, this quoted post which you agree with 100% was posted with the linked post (current data) at the original source and tweet) Both on the same page for a reason!

Quote:
“Experts” and influential people stuck in these Covid camps continue to influence the narrative.

The Narrative is influenced by computer generated results, not an actual virus!

Quote:
This should involve the equitable distribution of vaccines and therapeutics around the globe, protecting those vulnerable to severe disease and rapid-response public health plans based around surveillance.

Asaaghir wrote:
Lesson 3:
A businessman always protects his interests by playing both sides!


You ask a Mufti and the response you get will be:
"The vaccine which currently exists is permissible to use when there is a real need and secure knowledge that one will contract the disease and that will have a serious impact on health of the individual and/or society."
Source
There is no real need, but this is the disclaimer.
This pandemic is SO DEADLY that you won't know you have "it" until you get tested for "it. Now that really is secure knowledge that one contract the disease!

Is there a real need when more are dying after the vaccine? Proven fact month after month. Since there is no real need, the fatwa and doctors comments are very clear and can be repeated to anyone and they will take it as accurate even though they themsleves leave it vague intentionally.


They will creatively avoid the issue without actually incriminating themselves, and in Islam, this is known as Tawriya.

So again!
Asaaghir wrote:
Lesson 3:
A businessman always protects his interests by playing both sides!
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 13:05
abu mohammed wrote:
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I continue to agree with the doctor's post in its entirety and I agree with the mufti's opinion in its entirety.

The doctor's post quoted above does not contain any links.

I consider neither the doctor nor the mufti to be engaging in "tawriya."
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 13:42
Our point of disagreement is on what constitutes consensus.

I consider consensus to be determined by institutions. Which is why I prioritise the view that is expressed by consensus of institutions.

When there is a conflict between consensus of religious institutions and secular institutions, I fall in line with the consensus of religious institutions.

As I understand it, this is what Shariah demands.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 14:16
sharjan8643 wrote:
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She's unreliable. Period.
abu mohammed wrote:
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She's unreliable. Period. As far as the fatwa goes, ask again and the answer will be as vague as before, if you even get an answer!
sharjan8643 wrote:
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lol
sharjan8643 wrote:
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You have a lot to learn still.

sharjan8643 wrote:
I continue to agree with the doctor's post in its entirety and I agree with the mufti's opinion in its entirety.

Justify one of these harms then go round preaching The Vaccines
www.muftisays.com/forums/55-members-research-group/14235-...
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 17:29
Asaaghir wrote:
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Quote:
Justify one of these harms then go round preaching The Vaccines
Please mention where I have explicitly "preached" the vaccines, especially in this thread.

I do not "preach." I only make my stance clear, viz., I rely on the consensus of religious and secular institutions. When they differ among each other, I rely on the consensus of religious institutions.

I did read through the first 10 papers when they were first posted. I am not a medical expert, so I only paid attention to their conclusions. I will presume that the other 990+ papers have expressed similar conclusions.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 17:54
Asaaghir wrote:
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^ Wrongly quoted person

Correct:
sharjan8643 wrote:
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This is not what Sharee'ah demands. This is what your worldly attachments demand. Sharee'ah demands Qur'aan, then Hadeeth, and then the experts. The experts don't mean those who have government positions, that's your requirement, not the Sharee'ah. Experts don't mean those who have phd and other letters and certificates. It's experts. Most experts who provide truth have those fancy letters and degrees but that's not a Shar'ee requirement. It's your requirements. Please don't mix your worldly views with Sharee'ah. The amount of evidence provided can fill a mountain but you continue to troll. As I requested Maripat, there are so many Kuffar forums, social media and Muslim institutes funded by the government that would welcome you with open arms.

Here we prefer Haque, real sciencem facts and data over government policies and paid/funded pseudoscience papers. It really isn't the place for someone with your fixed unchangeable world views. Facebook is where you should be. Not here.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:03
Yasin wrote:
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Okay, Facebook it is then lol.

sharjan8643 wrote:
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Pleased to see that you read the first 10 at least.

Fair point to make about preaching. I shall rephrase it.

Justify one of these harms then go round playing the devil's advocate!

You might not be preaching about the vaccines, but you try very hard to justify their illegal and murderous use because your family doctor says they are safe and effective, contrary to the makers who say that they don't have any effect.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:16
Asaaghir wrote:
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I was meant to quote Sharjan lol. You had him quoted so I quoted you thinking it's him. You won't last 2 days on facebook, you'll get banned for spreading "anti-vax misinformation"
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:32
Yasin wrote:
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Quote:
The experts don't mean those who have government positions, that's your requirement
Please show me where I have made my requirement for experts to mean those who have government positions.
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:40
Asaaghir wrote:
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Quote:
Justify one of these harms then go round playing the devil's advocate!
It is not in my domain to either justify or refute these findings.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:50
Asaaghir wrote:
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Quote:
you try very hard to justify their illegal and murderous use because your family doctor says they are safe and effective
No, I have never "tried very hard" to justify their use.

If their use is "illegal" then that means there is a law against its use.

I only clarified my stance. I referred the matter of their safety to my family doctor and followed his advice, because I have followed his advice in personal medical matters for decades.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 18:59
I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I find comfort in the fact that there is a system in place to follow whenever there is confusion. I simply refer matters to people I trust who know more than I do about something.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 25th March 2022 20:09
sharjan8643 wrote:
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Didn't you once say that even if George Bush told you personally that he did 9/11, you wouldn't believe him based on the other evidence you believe?

I recall something like that when I produced evidence from Larry Springstien himself when he openly said that he ordered WTC7 to be demolished and he clearly said, "Pull it" i.e. bring the building down.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken
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