Incorrect Fatwa?

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 11:30

Salam, I have just read a fatwa given, I am pretty sure if I'm not mistaken, in the Quran it states that not even an ounce of alcohol is haram whether it intoxicates you or not. Even transacting is not halal. If Lucozade/ Ribena has proper alcohol inside then wouldn't this he totally haram. Can I have some clarification. JazakAllah
Here is the fatwa:

Q)can you please clarify if we are able to drink Ribena and Lucozade? I have heard from some people that you can and some people say you cant as they say it contains alcohol

Answer

Ulamaa ID 06

Answer last updated on:
15th October 2004
Answered by: Ulamaa ID 06

Location: London

It has been confirmed regarding the percentage used in Lucozade & Ribena. There is only enough in it to preserve the taste to last longer. It would take over 2 hundred regular size bottles to gather enough alcohol to have the alcohol effect. This amount is litterally impossible to drink.

Therefore, it is permissible to drink these products, however, the best option is to prefer Taqwa where Lucozade and Ribena is avoided.

And Allah knows best.
--------------------------------------
Maulana Muhamma

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 11:41

yaquob786 wrote:

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W-Salam,

Where in the Qur'aan does it say that? And do you know the amount and type of Alcohol which is added?

Jzk

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 11:46

salaam

from what i have understood from other fatwas and articles, the alcohol specifically mentioned in the quran, i.e khamr ( alcohol made from dates and grapes) is absolutely haraam and should not be used regardless if the amount has an intoxicating effect or not.

but other forms of alcohol, those which are not khamr or synthetically produced, are acceptable depending on a few different factors. some of these factors are - the amount is such that it is impossible to get intoxicated, the purpose of the addition of this alcohol is not to benefit from the alcohol directly but to use the effects of the alcohol in the manufacturing of the beverage.

i am not passing a fatwa. i am just regurgitating what i have learnt and understood from other ulama. please clarify this by consulting a trustworthy alim who is knowledgeable on this subject.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 14:28

www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?91180-Permissibil...

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 15:24

Is it correct to say this this leniency of synthetic vs. grape/date only applies to the Hanafi madh'hab? Personally, I follow Muslim Consumer Group, Maulana A.S. Desai, and ultimately Imaam Muhammad (rahmatu-llaahi `alayh), i.e. no alcohol at all. However, I've seen some Shaafi`ee brothers following the "lenient" Hanafi position. Is this acceptable?

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 20:19

samah wrote:

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salaam

do you eat bread?

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 22:23

samah wrote:

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xs11ax wrote:

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In general the Fatwa in the Hanafi Madhab is preferred to be given on Dhaahir Riwayah and in that case the Dhaahir Riwayah is ROCK SOLID in favour of Shaykh (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) and the Majlis and they are correct and upon the stronger opinion.

The other Ulamah such as Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) and Shaykh (Mufti) Ebraheem Desai (HA) have taken the stance of later Ulamah of the Madhab and made some inferrernces and dispensations which is according to Modern food standards and methods.

Once can argue that Bread (yeast, fermentation etc) does produce Alcohol and counter the Fatwaa of (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) and the Majlis that way but if we are fair and just then we will have to admit that they are upon the Dhaahir Riwayyah of Imam Muhammad (HA) of the Hanafi Madhab and we are not.

There are many cases where (Mufti) A.S. Desai (HA) and the Majlis differ with Ulamah and they have solid grounds and the issue of "Alcohol" is one of them.

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 22:39

xs11ax wrote:

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www.muftisays.com/qa/question/349/answered-alcohol-in-bre...

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 18th April 2014 22:44

Arslan. wrote:

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For your information, the links in the answer provided do not work, Bhai.

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samah

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2014 00:02

Salam,
I quote:
Quran: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some benefit, for men; but the sin is greater than the benefit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider (Qur'an 2:219)

Hadith: 1) Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If a large amount of anything causes intoxication, a small amount of it is prohibited.
(Abu Dawud 26:3673)
2) Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
(Sahih Bukhari 7:69:494)

3) ..."The hadd is imposed for drinking wine even if it does not make the man intoxicated. That is because he drank it to become intoxicated."...
(Al-Muwatta 41 41.1031)

Conditions scholars have mentioned:
1. It is not used as an intoxicant or to an amount which intoxicates
1. The alcohol is not derived from dates or grapes
2. It cannot intoxicate
3. It is not used as an intoxicant
4. It is not used as intoxicants as used (i.e. for alcoholic consumption, even a little)
5. It is not used in vain (lahw).
Reference here.

Ribena: potential problems because during its production process a filter is used made from gelatin, derived from pigs.
Lucozade: contains 0.01% of ethyl alcohol to ensure the flavouring permeates the whole drink.

Quote:
1) Chairman, Dr. Zaki Badawi, a former adviser on Islam to the Prince of Wales, concluded: "I see no harm in consuming Ribena and Lucozade which contain traces of ethyl alcohol and animal ingredients that do not bear their original qualities and do not change the taste, colour or smell of the product."
Reference here. 2004

2) According to Shaykh Ninowy, anything that contains Ethyl Alcohol is not permissible and, therefore, is a forbidden substance.
(There is a question of the structure of alcohol remaining or not and regarding synthetic alcohol)
Reference here.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2014 00:06

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2014 00:22

I am apologetic and remorseful if I have violated any regulations. I perceived it was befitting to post likewise.
Forgive me if I am in the wrong.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2014 00:37

xs11ax wrote:

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it was just a question. dont understand why people got so offended. i was going to ask for further clarification depending on your answer. i was not going down the route of, 'bread has alcohol so why do you eat that'. some people assume too much on this forum.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2014 01:23

xs11ax wrote:

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Please forgive me if I have made an incorrect assumption in my post in the /random thread. It only seemed like you were objecting because bread also has alcohol. If that was not your intention, then I misunderstood, so I ask your forgiveness.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 24th April 2014 16:27

You stated in your question:

yaquob786 wrote:

Salam, I have just read a fatwa given, I am pretty sure if I'm not mistaken, in the Quran it states that not even an ounce of alcohol is haram whether it intoxicates you or not.

I asked?

Muadh Khan wrote:

W-Salam,

Where in the Qur'aan does it say that? And do you know the amount and type of Alcohol which is added?

Jzk

You answered:

yaquob786 wrote:

Quran: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some benefit, for men; but the sin is greater than the benefit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider (Qur'an 2:219)

Hadith: 1) Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If a large amount of anything causes intoxication, a small amount of it is prohibited.
(Abu Dawud 26:3673)

Qur'aan clearly doesn't imply what you have stated
This is a matter of disagreement and an answer is detailed by Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA)

Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi Usmani (HA) wrote:

“With the above (explanation given by Shaykh Taqi on the different types of alcohol), the ruling with regards to the various types of alcohol, the usage of which has become widespread and they are used in many medicines and perfumes, becomes known, in that if the alcohol is extracted from grapes or dates, then there is no question of it being permissible or pure. However, if the alcohol is derived from other than grapes or dates, then there is no problem according to the view of Imam Abu Hanifa, in that it will not be unlawful to use such alcohol (m, and perfumes and medicines made thereof) for medical or other lawful purposes as long as the alcohol does not reach the level of intoxication…. And normally the alcohol used in medicines, perfumes, etc is not extracted from grapes and dates, rather it is derived from seeds, honey, chemicals, petrol, etc. (Takmila Fath al-Mulhim Sharh Sahih Muslim, 3/608)

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