Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Cochineal, What is it?

You have contributed 10.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
Taalibah, abu mohammed, ibn Ismail
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 16:46

Cochineal

This ingredient is found in so many foods, especially sweets. This is HARAM, but it makes you wonder why they use such ingredients. Its basically a colour!

http://www.foodguide.org.uk/?page=viewquestion&id=167

The cochineal (/kɒɨˈnl/ koch-i-neel or /ˈkɒɨnl/ koch-i-neelDactylopius coccus) is a scale insect in the suborderSternorrhyncha, from which the crimson-coloured natural dye carmine is derived. A primarily sessile parasite native to tropical and subtropical South America and Mexico, this insect lives on cacti in the genus Opuntia, feeding on plant moisture and nutrients.

The insect produces carminic acid that deters predation by other insects. Carminic acid, typically 17–24% of dried insects' weight, can be extracted from the body and eggs, then mixed with aluminium or calcium salts to make carmine dye, also known as cochineal.[1] Carmine is today primarily used as a food colouring and for cosmetics, especially as a lipstick colouring.

The carmine dye was used in Central America in the 15th century for colouring fabrics and became an important exportgood during the colonial period. After synthetic pigments and dyes such as alizarin were invented in the late 19th century, natural-dye production gradually diminished. Health fears over artificial food additives, however, have renewed the popularity of cochineal dyes, and the increased demand has made cultivation of the insect profitable again,[2] withPeru being the largest exporter. In Mexico, some towns in the state of Oaxaca are still working in handmade textiles.[3]

Other species in the genus Dactylopius can be used to produce cochineal extract, but they are extremely difficult to distinguish from D. coccus, even for expert taxonomists, and the latter scientific name (and the vernacular "cochineal insect") is therefore commonly used when one is actually referring to other biological species. The primary biological distinctions between species are minor differences in host plant preferences, in addition to very different geographic distributions.

 

Haraam
Cadbury 5 Turkish Delight Cake Bars (seasonal)  (cochineal)
Cadbury 6 Double Chocolate Mini Rolls   (cochineal)
Cadbury 6, 10 Jam Mini Rolls   (cochineal)

Haraam:

 

TIC TAC LIME/ORANGE - (Contains cochineal)
TIC TAC ORANGE  (Contains cochineal)
TIC TAC CHERRY PASSION (Contains cochineal)

NOTE: Some of the Tic Tacs are Halal, so you will have to check the ingredients first.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+3 -0
back to top
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 16:51
As-salam-u-'Alaykum, didn't read all of it, but is it E120?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 7th August 2014 17:01
bin Ismail wrote:
View original post

Yes and No!

Unfortunately today, the manufacturer has removed some of the E numbers and replaced them with the actual wording, like mentos have and people are pulled into and eat it.
E120 from Muftisays app
Screenshot_2014-08-07-16-58-01.png
Downloads: 197
    [1184.56 kB] E120 from Muftisays app
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 24th February 2015 16:47
From Brother Muadh's post

EATING FOODS WITH DYE MADE FROM INSECTS IN THE MALIKI SCHOOL

Answered by Shaykh Rami Nsour

Question: Assalamu alaikum,

Is it permissible to consume food that contains carmine (e120) in the Malaki madhab? Carmine is a crimson pigment derived from the pulverized bodies of cochineal insects. It is used for coloring.

Answer: Eating insects according to the Maliki school is permissible but that is with a condition. The condition is that the insects were killed with an intention of making them fit for consumptions (dhakat), much like the slaughtering of a sheep or cow. [Khalil, Al-Mukhtasar]

The production of Carmine, by collecting the Cochineal insects and soaking them in hot water, does not seem to fit the conditions of making them fit for consumption. The collecting process is to produce a dye that is used in the food and non-food industries. It does not seem that they are intending only making the insects fit for consumption.

Based on my understanding of the current production methods, it would not be permissible to consume foods with the Carmine according to the Maliki madhab.

And Allah knows best.
malikifiqhqa.com/2013/09/17/eating-foods-with-dye-made-fr...
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 12th February 2017 18:38
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 1
back to top
Rank Image
tasbeeh's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
100
Brother
74
tasbeeh's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2017 15:49
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2017 15:53
tasbeeh wrote:
View original post

Agree, but not every pack will be the same.

Last month I bought some M&M's and ate them because they were halal. Then on Saturday, I was asked by someone who wanted to buy more, so they sent me a picture and asked if it was Halal. I had to give them the bad news of Haram because this pack contained Carmine (from the same shop)
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2017 16:08
Previously, M&M's were halal then haram then halal then haram and waiting for it to go halal again.

Latest image, picture taken on Saturday 12th Feb 2017

The flash covers the text but it can be read.

We did discuss before, the size of the packs as the smaller packs could come from abroad etc, but the packs I bought recently were HALAL and the same size as those in the image.

The ingredients have changed from E-120 to Cochineal to Suitable for vegetarians and some packs contain Carmine.
For more on M&M's www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/9879-mms-halal-an...
For more on Skittles www.muftisays.com/forums/82-the-food-section/10518-skittl...
IMG-20170212-WA0000.jpg
Downloads: 735
    [180.08 kB]
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
24,904
Brother
9,207
abu mohammed's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2017 16:21
tasbeeh wrote:
View original post

This version of Skittles is HARAM - Therefore, one needs to check everytime if they are buying/eating the Halal sweet or the Haram sweet.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
107
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 4th September 2017 11:58

Carmine: Hanafi School:

www.foodguide.org.uk/?page=viewquestion&id=230

Carmine in lipsticks is not permissible. The use of carmine in lipsticks, more commonly known as C.I. 75470 in the cosmetic industry is impermissible.  This is because there is the risk of licking the lips or somehow swallowing the carmine.

Carmine: Maliki School:

seekershub.org/ans-blog/2013/09/15/eating-foods-with-dye-...

Eating insects according to the Maliki school is permissible but that is with a condition. The condition is that the insects were killed with an intention of making them fit for consumptions (dhakat), much like the slaughtering of a sheep or cow. [Khalil, Al-Mukhtasar] The production of Carmine, by collecting the Cochineal insects and soaking them in hot water, does not seem to fit the conditions of making them fit for consumption. The collecting process is to produce a dye that is used in the food and non-food industries. It does not seem that they are intending only making the insects fit for consumption.

Carmine: Shaf'ae School:

seekershub.org/ans-blog/2017/03/08/cochineal-red-dye-inse...

The position of our scholars here in the Cape, and consequently that of the Muslim Judicial Council is that cochineal is not Halal and that consumers should refrain from it, and Allah knows best.

Carmine: Hanbali School:

Pending...

Carmine: Dhahiri

www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&O...

If this ingredient is as we found out extracted from cochineal beetle, which is dried before being ground, then it is unlawful to consume it because it is unlawful to eat insects according to the majority of scholars for they are abhorrent and the normal person is disgusted with them.

report post quote code quick quote reply
+1 -0Like x 1
back to top

 

Quick Reply

CAPTCHA - As you are a guest, you are required to answer the following:


In the above image: What shape is the red shape ('round' is not a shape)?