We didn't choose to eat in the most dangerous place in the UK (Meridian Square, Newham in London or Picadilly in Manchester or even Spring Hill in Birmingham)
We were in an area away from home, on our way home. Kids were getting hungry after a long day out.
We went into an area where the population is mostly Muslim with loads of Halal food on offer (I can't say we saw many fast food places)
Most of these places were HMC certified. Food from different parts of the world. We parked up, went from one place to another to check seating facilities, crowd, menu and so on.
We eventually opted to eat in what looked nice and quiet with secluded (by nets - somewhat) seating area.
It was the HMC certificate that gave the assurance of some sort of piety :)
But business is business and frankly, that what HMC is doing too.
I used to be a fan of HMC but learning more about the Halal trade and realising that we can still eat Halal slaughtered by other firms and methods not endorsed by HMC, I feel it's all a business strategy. A strategy to get jobs for people who otherwise might find it hard to get jobs elsewhere or jobs for those who want to work with best of intentions and working in an environment where they feel at peace in serving the Ummah.
But it's all become a big farce because in reality, it's the certificate that draws well intended people in!
If it's just the certification people are looking at then there are many Pubs that serve HMC meat and poultry simply because of the quality of the product. But they don't advertise their food as Halal, obviously!
HMC also advertise all their certified places for ease of their customers and they even have an app to help you find these Haram HMC certified places to eat at.
HMC wrote:
OUR MAIN GOAL
We want all Muslims to be Confident/Assured/Satissfied that the products they use and consume are Genuinely Halal
Except where you consume it :(
They need a disclaimer on their website where they advertise each and every one of their 504 restaurants and takeaways that is certified by them and clearly state that they CANNOT be Confident, can't give Assurance and can't say if the Muslims will be satissfied!
Well fact is HMC only certifys the meat and poultry as Halal.
Have they ever claimed that the certificate also certifies every aspect of restaurant to be in accordance with Quran and Sunnah.
Or the certificate also endorses
and testifies to the fact that staff at these places live a life of Quran and Sunnah.
When any person sees a HMC halal label at a restaurant...it is a known fact that it only applies to meat and poultry.
It does not apply to pretty waitresses or belly dancers.
On a side note...this cult of HMC does not have much of a following in Birmingham...no body bothers checking if some place is HMC or brings it up in conversation.
A simple label saying Halal is considered sufficient....out of about 70 odd fast food places, and restaurants in my locality I have only noticed about 3 places with HMC label.
I agree with you that it's only the meat and poultry that is Halal and nothing else. They don't endorse eating in every place they certify.
So with these double standards, would they provide a certificate to a pub that will only serve HMC certified meat and poultry? The Haram's are obvious! But the meal is Halal, so what's the difference? One is openely Haram and the other is certified Halal but can still be Haram ;)
Or a Halal food place that serves HMC meats but also serves alcohol to those curry lovers - would they dare to certify them? (or have they)
They need to follow their certification through to the end. Simply stating that we only certify meat and poultry is a sham because even non Muslim places could do that, but would HMC certify that?
Would these same Ulama eat at their own certified restaurants? Maybe in some but not all.
If I asked their shura to join me for a meal at one of their certified places, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate, but they'd want to have me fried if they had to witness what my children witnessed.
If anyone from their Shura says, "No, they would not eat at a HMC certified place" then they really should
stop providing a beacon for the windows!
I was referring to the public mindset, in my hometown.
Maybe a decade or so ago whether a place was halal or not...was based on stereotypes. That is the ethnic background of management and owners...certain ethnic groups where considered reliable when it came to selling halal whilst others less so.
For some now adays even if a non-muslim puts up a sticker saying halal...that is sufficient for them.
Anyways back to the topic...of the thread. I still dont understand what exactly you are proposing.
All your doing is making analogies with pubs. If we flip that and look on the otherside of the coin. You would not go to eat at a pub that served halal food or take your family there....so why you going to restaurants with your family...having lived all your life in the U.K.
You must know by now that the atmosphere in a restaurant being halal are slim and none...and slim is no longer around.
There are proper Halal places to eat for those who do wish to go out and eat. They have secluded areas with no music etc.
No one will take their family or even go themselves to a pub for a meal.
The point is, only the meat and poultry served in such a pub would be Halal - therefore with the same logic as the policy of certification, i.e. the meat and chicken would be Halal to eat right? but they wouldn't certify them as business would they?
Would that Halal certified meat & chicken be Halal or Haram if served in a pub?
Whatsmore when you started this thread was in 2011...that seems like a lifetime ago ground realities have changed...we have had two diverging typhoons within the political climate one of extreme secular progressive liberalism..on the otherside the so called alt-right populism.
Both are united by their hatred for Islam and muslims and have strong voice in the media.
In the future we are probably likely to see gender-neutral toilets becoming compulsory in all restaurants and workplaces.
There has been a massive campaign in the media in recent years. Against Halal food.
I have relatives who live in a small all white town who stated one of the Pizza places although they sold Halal. Stopped advertising halal on any of their literature, website or premises.
So imagine if HMC decided to expand their remit and criteria...an aggrieved owner of an establishment. Would more then likley contact the press and media would have a field day...go full on in their anti-muslim rants.
One needs to look at the bigger picture and ground realities....about a decade or so ago a dentist was charged for miconduct by the professional body...for insisting that his female muslim patients wore hijab whilst being treated.
In America similarly in the town of minneapolis Somali muslim taxi drivers had licences revoked for refusing to transport passengers who were carrying alcohol or were accompanied by dogs.
What legal remit would HMC have to enforce an Islamic atmosphere.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
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