Why I found a HMC Restaurant to be Haram! (my opinion)

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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2012 00:57

Asalaamualaykum,

HMC- A real HMC resturant would be if

a) The meat (+ food) is hmc certified
b) No music especially not really loud- if wanted a noise for the backround it could be nasheeds or quraan recital
c) Islamic/ halal wear- for men it is OK jus a shirt and trousers, but however women shouldnt be even working in resturants and serving men etc. if they are young they should stay at home or perform halal acts not working in resturants!

i dont think this counts but however i thought its worth a mention!

In some halal resturants, they have curtain around each table to have privacy. This is good for muslims especially for muslim women. It is good so the other male customers would not have their eyes attracted to the women, so they could take of their niqaab while eating because there is privacy and no one can see!

Now that is what i call a HMC/halal resturant! if anybody has really good suggestions, plz say so.

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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2012 00:59

And if the women are old like in their 30s and are married and have children then they should stay at home taking care of her family!

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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 30th July 2012 03:29

Good points mentioned above.
Only thing I would amend is the Quran recital for background purposes. that is not allowed. it would be highly disrespectful.
Also, no harm in women working. however not in a mixed environment serving the opposite sex. so that is a big no!

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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 31st July 2012 00:46

correct- there is no harm for women working in resturants but however it is wrong if they are in a mixed enviroment serving the opposite sex. jzk sister for pointing that out!

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 1st August 2012 15:09

abu mohammed wrote:

I do understand your point. I will let Allah be the judge of that. We didn't intentionally dine there. It was the only hmc place around. We drove for miles and then found it.

Most of these things started after we ordered and started eating. We probably would've got a beating had we left after placing an order.

The point has been discussed and there's not much point reiterating everything again.

Jazakallahu khair.

so most of the things started after you ordered the food? which things were already started before you ordered the food?

even if it was just the music that was on before you ordered the food, you had the full oppurtunity to walk out.

if you had no where else to eat then you could have just ordered something that you could have eaten in your car.

i NEVER eat in a restaraunt as WE ARE ALL FULLY AWARE that there will be some sort of haram there. this could even be women customers without purdah, and i am sure that WE ARE ALL FULLY AWARE that this is very common in restaraunts.

as for HMC - they only claim to certify the meat. that is the purpose of HMC. they dont claim to cetify the whole establishment. HMC are NOT telling you to eat in these places. you can very easily buy the food and eat it at home or eat it in the car.

i am not judging your intention. but it is very obvious that you could have very easily avoided this by making a leeeeeetle sacrifice.

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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 1st August 2012 15:39

Quote:

as for HMC - they only claim to certify the meat. that is the purpose of HMC. they dont claim to cetify the whole establishment. HMC are NOT telling you to eat in these places.

ITS NOT ABOUT HMC. They are doing great, Alhumdulillah.

Its the fact that people go out of their way to find Halal, especially HMC and then THE WHOLE EXPERIANCE is not Halal.

I'm sure you've read the whole thread.

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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd August 2012 00:37

abu mohammed wrote:

Quote:

as for HMC - they only claim to certify the meat. that is the purpose of HMC. they dont claim to cetify the whole establishment. HMC are NOT telling you to eat in these places.

yes i have read the thread.

there were a couple of fully halal places near me but they closed down. they cant remain open unless they get support from the deeni community. they are not charities. they are businesses and need to make a profit. and in contrast, even the 'deeni' people would rather go to the glitzy famous places so what hope do fully halal places have? non!

if there was a market for fully halal places then someone would open one. but there is no market. its as simple as that.

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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 11th August 2012 18:40

Every single person seems to be a mufti now a days and starts giving fatwas left right and centre. A person does not become a mufti just by reading a few articles on the net, rather it takes minimum of 10 yrs full time study to even gain that status. Because of these so called mufties there is lot more fitnah in Islamic world/Muslim ummah. Allah has made Islam easy to follow and please do not make it hard for yourself or for any one else.
If we do not like a place because of certain people working then we should not go.
Moreover hijab for men is lowering of their gaze and should not look at women workers.

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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 11th August 2012 21:15

Assalamu Alaykum,

I thought I'd very briefly clear a few things in this topic as some of the guests are maybe unaware why Abu Mohammed started this topic.

Firstly, most importantly, we should understand that anything he puts forward is not a ruling or Fatwa. I cannot find a statement from him stating it's Haraam or anything. Once this is understood, then comes "so what is he saying"

A person goes to a restaurant for two main reasons:
1) To eat
2) For the experience

Alhamdulillah I never go out to eat as a time pass and I don't think I ever will get into the habit but many many people like to once in a while including a few Ulamaa.

The main purpose of HMC is Halaal meat. So if the first purpose of a restaurant is confirmed Halaal, i.e. HMC certified then that's the first part covered.

Then comes the experience or second part of why people go to restaurants, the experience. If the entire experience is Haraam, like Music, women serving, sometimes in skirts, then the point Abu Mohammed was making was that he finds HMC certified restaurants to be Haraam in so many ways. Not that they should be held responsible. I also thought he meant the same thing when I replied earlier but he's been trying to explain himself ever since.

So in conclusion, he is not saying that HMC should certify every aspect, he is saying that it's ironic and somewhat an embarrassment to the Muslims that restaurants spend money on HMC certification, HMC work so hard to ensure the meat is Halaal but the restaurants do not cater for the second part of the Halaal.

He is not saying we don't have a choice or other alternatives. He probably sees a lot of Muslims going there, it's not just about himself, it's about seeing evil and raising an opinion here which come to think of we all agree with.

After all, he was raising an issue, not asking a question or answering one. Not issuing a Fatwa nor calling for anything out of line. Just raising an issue. Let us not make Deen difficult as you said, let an opinion or issue remain an opinion without turning into something it's not inshaAllah.

Jazakumullah

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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2012 11:02

I totally agree with all the comments (made by brothers and sisters) which are in accordance with deen and fiqh.�

I never meant to say brother Abu Mohammed was issuing a fatwa but it was a statement, (after reading some of the comments in the thread) about the misuse of the Internet, by posting opinions which might create doubts in mind of vulnerable people and also prejudice people against any organisation that is doing a good job.�

Why should we make it so difficult that we need to discuss each and every issue and give shaitaan a chance to play its game. If you feel that certain practice is against deen or not a part of deen then do not do it and refrain your family from it. You would like to go and eat out in the market/food joint for whatever reason, knowing it is best avoided, and then start criticising the food joint for being unislamic ( that too in a darulkufr), I think is not right.

I apologise I should have been more specific.

I believe that if we have to, then we should eat in a place where At-tayyibaat are served because man is weak and falls to haraam pleasures easily. However if that is not possible then one should try and lower their gaze as much as possible. Hijab includes many more things then only covering hair, having beard, avoiding isbaal and lowering gaze. If we follow this then we can teach our children to come out clean, of this filthy environment around them. As we all know Allah swt told us to protect our family members from fire.

I also believe that individual opinions are very dangerous for muslim ummah, (because they tend to create confusion, as you know there are as many opinions, as the number of people) unless you are a mujtahid.�

You can do ijtihaad only with sound knowledge of the deen, the seerah, the fiqh, the shariah, and the practice of salaf, pious people & ulema-e-deen. If we can't do ijtihaad then stick to what prominent scholars have said regarding this topic i.e. avoid places where you find khabaaithaat and prefer places of tayyibaat. Khabaaithaat and tayyibaat includes all bad and good things not just food.�

However we Muslims have become very selective of sunnah and shariah as per our needs just like other ummah before us who have been punished & this is because of many opinions of many half learned people (again I am not saying about any particular person in the thread)

I also believe that arguments and counter arguments gives iblees and his company a good opportunity to divide Muslims hence I would refrain from making any comments further and apologise if I have hurt anyone unknowingly.�

It is ironic that we argue and discuss (to disagree) regarding silly issues whilst major fitnah circling the ummah are left unattended.�

I pray to Allah to forgive me for any mistake I did by posting in this thread.

I seek from Allah سبحانه وتعالى the knowledge which is beneficial to me in this world and here after.
I also ask from Allah swt the guidance with which he guided the righteous people.�
May Allah swt unite the Muslim ummah and make us tolerant towards each other.

May Allah swt bless our beloved prophet (khatimun nabiyyin, sayyidil mursaleen) Mohammed pbuh.

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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2012 19:15

What is the definition of a forum, here is one

fo�rum

1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.

b. A public meeting place for open discussion.

c. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

3. A court of law; a tribunal.

So there you have it, everyone is entitled to their opinion and can discuss freely.

No one is creating doubts like you mention above and no one is falling prey to satan.

Everyone is sharing their opinions and thoughts together with what they would like to see being done.

I for one found it very useful and educational and at the same time entertaining.

Its in the top rated forums for a reason and liked by many as can be seen by the appreciations.

We can discuss and share small everyday issues and large issues and to be honest, Abu Muhammad has done an all rounder. Hes practically touched every topic and introduced many new things and made it easy for my likes to understand and participate.

WSLM

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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2012 19:44

Jazakallahu khair to Muslims A & B.

A forum is open for discussions, sometimes we have something on our chest and we want to share it with others and see what others think about the same issue.

The title clearly states that it is just my "opinion". It's not any research or documented piece of information, just my opinion on a particular day.

Khair, Jazakallah to all.

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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 14th August 2012 00:22

Sad to say but I've never come across a proper halaal restaurant. Saying that we hardly ever go out. We normally just bring It home. and if we happen to go i just ask for the music to be turned off.

Are there any in particular in any town or city that come to mind? please share if anyone knows of any.

Jazakallah khair in advance.

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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 14th August 2012 01:23

Years ago, a few friends wanted to eat out on Eid day (or day after Eid can't remember). I'm just not a fan of restaurants. I just won't ever see why I should pay 4 to 5 times more for food just because of the 'fanciness' (personal preference). So we went to a place in Ilford that the friends heard a lot about. We walked in, mashaAllah all Muslim workers (not practicing) and owner was Muslim too. But in the background, Music, plenty of it too.

I made the move to request for it to be turned off. He said he has to speak to manager. He came back and said, "Sorry this is what people want"

I asked if we were not people. He said yes you are but the majority want this. I said, "If I went to each and every person in this restaurant and asked if they wanted the music or if they came to eat and they reply with that they don't want music, will you turn it off then?" - He laughed and called the manager. I made the same offer again and he said, "Sorry this is just how it is" - end of story. We walked out.

Only to realise that the moment we walked out, they had a "Muslim" female singer ready to perform live and she was already on her feet with the microphone. So this is the state of restaurants, Muslims and our ways. I urge everyone to order in even if it costs a little more when you can't cook at home. Being HMC is not enough and that was Abu Mohammed's point. To put it in a simple form: Water is Halaal, but will you go to a night club, pub or even worse places with the statement "but water is Halaal"? In the same way, yes ok they might be HMC certified but it's not a reason to go. We should consider everything else too and now I see what this topic is all about. We all misunderstood it at first.

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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 14th August 2012 09:57

Yasin wrote:

yes ok they might be HMC certified but it's not a reason to go. We should consider everything else too and now I see what this topic is all about. We all misunderstood it at first.

Jazakallahu Khair.

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Why I found a HMC Restaurant to be Haram! (my opinion)

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