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Why I found a HMC Restaurant to be Haram! (my opinion)

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2011 21:35
But it doesn't end here.
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2011 21:39
Just as well the restaurants don't allow smoking and shisha.

Every other thing has been talked about.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2011 11:32
I was out yesterday visiting family members around East London.

I saw many HMC certified restaurants and was pleased to see that the public demand more of the proper Halal meat.

BUT....I saw more and more of them with this new trend of not being Islamic yet Halal.

I'm sure I've made my point by now.

IT IS NOT HMC's FAULT.
Dont get me wrong.

IS IT PUBLIC DEMAND?
OR IS IT A LICENCE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT AND DISGUISE IT AS HALAL!!!!!?

IT'S OUR FAULT FOR ALLOWING IT TO CONTINUE
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd April 2011 21:27

OFF TOPIC BUT.......

My uncle once was given a cat to look after whilst his neighbour went away on holiday.

My uncle fed the cat with halal meat left overs and also fresh cuttings of meat.

When the neighbour returned he was give the cat back. The cat owner was confused as the cat wouldn't eat any thing and he thought the cat was sick. He asked my uncle what he was feeding the cat. So he told him that he fed him halal meat only. So the cat owner tried to give the cat halal meat and the cat ate very well. He was suprised but couldn't believe the cat was able to tell, so he gave the cat haram meat. The cat refused to eat it, and when halal meat was given, it ate again.

SubhanAllah.

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2011 12:58
salaam

do members here feel that it is ok to take their family especially their wives to a place where they will be in close proximity to members of the opposite gender, in a place where the other customers will more than likely not be dressed in an appropriate way?

it is not as if there is a dire need to go there unless one is travelling and does not have any other place to eat and even in this situation there are ways where we can avoid such places. we mostly only eat at restaraunts as a past time and entertainment. is this allowed?

if you know that there will be music, inappropriate behaviour by non-deeni people, non-mahram, people dressed in an inappropriate fashion etc at these places then why even go there?

there is no use complaining about the meat being halal but the atmosphere not being halal as no one is forcing us to eat at these places. to insinuate that the proprietors are hypocrites for this behaviour also places the same charge upon ourselves for even going there in the first place!
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2011 16:25
xs11ax wrote:
salaam

do members here feel that it is ok to take their family especially their wives to a place where they will be in close proximity to members of the opposite gender, in a place where the other customers will more than likely not be dressed in an appropriate way?

it is not as if there is a dire need to go there unless one is travelling and does not have any other place to eat and even in this situation there are ways where we can avoid such places. we mostly only eat at restaraunts as a past time and entertainment. is this allowed?

if you know that there will be music, inappropriate behaviour by non-deeni people, non-mahram, people dressed in an inappropriate fashion etc at these places then why even go there?

there is no use complaining about the meat being halal but the atmosphere not being halal as no one is forcing us to eat at these places. to insinuate that the proprietors are hypocrites for this behaviour also places the same charge upon ourselves for even going there in the first place!


wa'alaykumus salaam.
good points raised masha Allah...it has become a trend for many to eat out at least once a week and we are actually teaching our children thats its ok to go out and eat in a environment such as what is described above. It would be just as enjoyable to get takeaway and eat at home.
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2011 18:28

THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS WAS

"Muadh_Khan" wrote:

In the past we as Muslims used to go to a place and look at the individual and the environment and make a judgement call.

Now, we look for the label.

HMC need a STICK!

I Agree with all the points so far by every one. Please dont get me wrong.

But......At the end of the day, The Label is calling the activities HALAL TOO

I guess no one has spoken to non muslims who say "I DIDNT KNOW YOUR RELIGION ALLOWED THIS THAT AND THE OTHER" You ask them why they have that opinion and its because of the experiance from a 100% Halal food joint, where the experiance was Islamic.

Yes we are to blame for going in, but why call it Halal, when only the ingredints are!

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2011 20:17
Were they muslim workers

if yes
Astagfirullah
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 27th April 2011 20:19
In this case and most cases they are all Muslims
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2011 18:31
Since Ramadhan is coming near and as there are grave warnings for eating Haram I thought I would post some articles about halal food since people may be confused about who to trust.



Boundaries of Waswasa and Mashbooh

Views: 1662707 Last Updated: 07/12/2009
Question


There is a danger of cross-contamination with just about everything
we eat in the WEST; where do we draw the line?

I am NOT trying to debate; but trying to understand the doundaries
between MASHBOOH & WASWASA






Answer


Last Updated: 07/12/2009
23/ February 2005:

Jazakallah for your query on the subject of Mashbooh and Waswasa. In these days especially, it is a valid issue that needs to be addressed. Notwithstanding a pinch of common sense and taking the middle way will ensure safety without having to compromise.

What is Mashbooh? - The status of a product is doubtful or questionable. Mashbooh can include ingredients which maybe from a Halaal or Haraam source e,g, emulsifiers thus when the specific source is not known, the products are deemed suspect or questionable. Some examples of these are given below:
A product contains E471 or any other constituent which can be derived or sourced from a Haraam or Halaal source.
A Halaal product like fries which is deep-fried in pure vegetable oil however there are Haraam meats also cooked on the premises and there are no monitored procedures to separate the Halaal from the Haraam. There is a certainly a high risk of contamination in some form or another.
Jelly sweets which contain beef gelatine from a Muslim country (it has to be ascertained that the beef gelatine is not mixed or bought from an unreliable supplier).
Until we find out the source, the product would be Mashbooh.


What is Waswasa - Linguistically Waswasa is derived from the word whisper. In Islamic terminology it refers to unfounded and baseless doubts - merely whispers from Shaytaan. Some of examples of these are given below:
Doubts in a restaurant operated by a Muslim restaurant owner whose meat has been checked by an authentic Ulama Organisation.
When we eat food (which is Halaal in itself and no other Haraam ingredients) made in a nonMuslim factory we think "perhaps they didn't wash their hands when they went to the toilet" or "maybe they added an impurity in a vat".
We see something tasty with a Haraam meat product and think that it maybe dhabeehah (though, there is nothing authentic to suggest this at all)
We see a product that contains gelatine and we deem it to be fish gelatine (so Halaal) rather it is at least Mashbooh if not Haraam.
We are given a food invitation by an upright Muslim who is conscious and sensitive to Islamic requirements. We want to check ingredients and ask them where they buy their meat.
I am sure we could all think of many more.

Back to your original query with Gregg's and how this subject relates to it. Gregg's has stated quite categorically:
"All our non meat products are made using vegetarian ingredients, but due to our processes there is always the possibility of some cross contamination from meat products. The same would apply when shops are making the sandwiches, as there is no designated equipment that is used for non meat sandwiches, although the area is wiped down after making each type. Therefore although we produce meat-free products we do not claim to meet Vegetarian Society guidelines."

High Risk of Contamination
It is manifest that these products are Mashbooh due to the high-risk of contamination. Non Muslim Outlets similar to KFC, Burger King and MacDonald's would understandably not be concerned about contamination nor should they be expected to. After all, they are a business that needs to prepare and serve food very fast. Separate desktops, changing oils that have been mixed, separate utensils would be unworkable in practice in most situations especially when busy.

Macdonalds themselves say: †During preparation, the Grilled Veggie Melt may come in contact with meat and/or chicken products.

Link: h t t p : / / w w w .mcdonalds. c a / e n / food / tds . a s p x

Why risk it when there are so many Muslim places we can go to? Rasulullah Sallallahu Alaihe Wasallam said Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt." Tirmidhi, Nasa'i, and Ahmad; Tirmidhi deemed it soundly authentic (hasan sahih), and this was confirmed by other hadith masters Rahmatullahi Alaihim] courtesy sunnipath . c o m

Mufti Desai on this subject:
h t t p : / / w w w .islam. t c/ ask-imam/ view.php?q=4632

Factories

This is not the case per se with non-Muslim factories, manufacturing plants and the like. A legal maxim may apply here: "Permissibility is assumed in things unless proved otherwise." To be in such doubt without reasonable rationale is inevitably Waswasa. There are strict demarcation of meat products and ice cream for example, necessity of clean uniform, face and hair masks and washing of hands. In the Gloucester Wall's Ice cream factory for example, cameras film the sink area to ensure that hands are washed by workers. The sinks are outside of the lavatories. The law demands various procedures are implemented for safety, prevention of food poisoning etc. Further, where a company guarantees a "suitable for vegetarians" emblem then they would have to be more careful to ensure that indeed their products do not become contaminated by "reworks" or non vegetarian products.

To conclude, one must exercise much caution and common sense to ensure that one eats Halal. One need not be plagued by baseless Waswasa. The Halaal is clear-cut and the Haraam is clear-cut. It is clear from the aforementioned that your query of contaminated foods in the West can be easily applied and practised.

Please do tell your friends and Ulama about this site.
Allah reward you for using the Foodguide Service. Allah give us tawfique to eat Halaal all the time. Please tell your friends and please pray for us too.

Jazaakumullah and request for Du'aas
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

To subscribe to Foodguide updates send a blank email to: foodguide - subscribe @ y a h o o g r o u p s . c o . u k

FoodGuide Services Staff
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Almighty Allah (SWT) says, "O people of Imaan! Eat of the pure things (Halaal) that We have provided for you, and be grateful to Allah" (Surah Baqarah 2:172)
The Holy Qur'aan












THE FIQH OF HALAL MEAT
Based on a verbal Fatwa by Mufti Rafi Usmani
Raised by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani


Question

What are some general principles related to Halal meat? Can we trust others' word on whether the meat is Halal?


Answer

In general, the jurists (fuqaha) mention that one can trust another's word (Muslim or non-Muslim) that the meat has been properly Islamically slaughtered [Fatawa Hindiyya, Radd al-Muhtar].
However, when there is reason to be cautious, it is recommended to take the means to make sure that it is in fact Halal.
When there is 'reasonable' fear that this particular meat is possibly Haram--or when it is generally the case that meat labelled 'Halal' is dubious--then it would be one's duty to make sure.

(End of Fatwa)
Keeping the above in mind, Muslims living in this country need to ponder as to which situation relates to them. The first and second situations are both out of the question, and the reason is obvious. The third situation also does not relate to us, since there is not only 'reasonable' fear that the meat labelled as Halal is possibly Haram. Rather, based on the research and investigation of many individuals and organisations, the current situation is even worse - that is there is 'extreme' fear that a particular meat labelled as Halal may be Haram.

Therefore, one must not take another's word at face value; rather it will be one's duty to ensure that the meat is Halal, whether individually or through an organisation that one trusts and who would give this assurance.

And Allah knows best

Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam Al-Kawthari
w w w . h a l a l m c . n e t








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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 14th June 2011 03:57
xs11ax wrote:
salaam

do members here feel that it is ok to take their family especially their wives to a place where they will be in close proximity to members of the opposite gender, in a place where the other customers will more than likely not be dressed in an appropriate way?

it is not as if there is a dire need to go there unless one is travelling and does not have any other place to eat and even in this situation there are ways where we can avoid such places. we mostly only eat at restaraunts as a past time and entertainment. is this allowed?

if you know that there will be music, inappropriate behaviour by non-deeni people, non-mahram, people dressed in an inappropriate fashion etc at these places then why even go there?

there is no use complaining about the meat being halal but the atmosphere not being halal as no one is forcing us to eat at these places. to insinuate that the proprietors are hypocrites for this behaviour also places the same charge upon ourselves for even going there in the first place!


This is the best post I've read on this topic. Unfortunately, a lot of others sound so judgemental -- we should always look at our own shortcomings and rectify ourselves first. Each one of us has, at the very least, one bad habit that may displease Allah, and that could lead us astray in this world and perhaps hellfire in the aakhirah.

I refrain from eating in restaurants, because these people are firstly motivated by earnings, and some of the ingredients can be pretty poor quality, especially the cooking oil. Cooking oil changes it's asliyat after reaching boiling point at the third time of use and can be very harmful. If you're travelling, make sandwiches at home and take them with you. If you're at home, there's nothing like good old fashioned home cooking.

You could also argue that eating out is very much a Western tradition, and inevitably leads to mixing between male & female. There are a lot of non-Muslims who eat at Muslim establishments, one famous and prominent restaurant in Bradford being a case in point.

I hope that the original poster is in fact a Mufti because my understanding is that a layman cannot make a declaration of Halaal and Haraam -- I'm sure someone more learned than me will provide clarification.
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 14th June 2011 08:25
I agree with what people have said about taking your family/ wife to the restaurant and other men being around, however i wouldnt blanket all the resturants.

I always tend to make it very clear the waiters that i dont want anyone waiting on me.
I will come to the counter and order. Also i tend to go more often to places where they provide private sections.

If there is music on i ask them to turn it off / or change the channel. If they dont then i decide if i really need/want to eat there. I make it clear that im leave with my whole group due to the lack of communication on their behalf.

Admittedly I do go out and about a lot (out of town). Due to the lack of HMC availability you dont always have a choice, and after a day of trekking around you really dont want to do a takeaway and eat in the car. so i just tend to get them to comply in switching the music off.

The usual reply is " but its for eveyone in the resturant" so i reply with "ok, no problem, if i go and ask everyone, if they dont mind will you switch it off please?" they then tend to get the idea that its better to turn it off than a 'daari waala' asking all the customers.

On the way out i always make sure i thank them sincerely, with some dawah, to ensure there is no bad feeling.

In my experience, 95% of people dont argue with the requests cos if a daari wala generally asks, they feel intimidated due to the lack of islam on their face and life and listen. Alhamdulillah, the benefits of pleasing Allah!

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 2nd July 2011 21:27
For all those who were against my grunt:

We went out for shopping and it got a bit late, so I asked the kids what they would like to eat. Instanatly they replied, "That same restaurant we went to last time" (i'm not gonna give the name).

So I replied that I didnt really like that place. So my said, "but you liked the food". So I said it wasnt the food.

Even my 10 year old son understood and said, "was it because of that woman" (He meant the waitress) So said yes and the Music too.

Even a kid understands, why dont you grown ups.
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2011 00:13
What should we do, few weeks ago in the bayan we were told not to eat in khana khazana in green street its because they r non muslim n should we trust them but they have a hmc sign and also in the hmc website it says they provide poultry for them 2 different things! n also a muslim person was providing haram meat to one of the madressa in South Africa until he got caught how could some1 do something like this
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 8th September 2011 17:52
Asalamualikum.
I think the reason why most of us grown ups "dont understand" as you say abu mohammed from my point of view is that even though you say its not about HMC but the place they cetify at the end of the day it still seems like your pointing fingers at HMC, because this whole thread started about the fact that it was a HMC approved restraunt. Isn't this organisation run by Moulana Saleem Dhorat? Wouldn't the Shaykh know better about what he is doing?
I understand your point about a non-islamic environment because Wallah if it didnt look so ridiculous, even in summer i would make my daughter wear ear muffs just so that she would not hear something haraam whilst we are out, i would make her wear sun glasses all year round if it werent for the fact that you can still see out of them and she is only 3!
I personally think the Halaal/Haraam issues should be left to our Muftis, if anyone thinks it not right then they should not go to such places avoid them.
Wallahu A'lam.
Wasalaam
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