The 5th Madhab

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 09:57

Mufti Abdur Rahman ibn Yusuf in a lecture says

Edit: Update with Script :)

He says,
"Today, here people ask you, "What madhab are you brother?" Hanafi, Shafi, Salafi, Hanbali, whatever you are, right? I'm saying that as though the salafi is a madhab! because its a madhab, its a 5th madhab by the way, that's my research. Salafism is a 5th madhab, right. And I say this very clearly, because it is. It's nothing other than taqleed of another set of scholars, it's nothing different than that, right. and there's nothing...you know..if they're clear about that, then that's fine."

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As-Samani / kitab al-ansab.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 14:17

There's a huge difference I reckon, on a personal basis.

The 4 schools of thought have a solid background, the 5th is constantly evolving and splitting away (even from each other), adding and taking away from their school.

The 4 schools accept and respect each other, the 5th school on the other hand are the opposite in many cases.

The 4 schools don't make allegations of weakness and fabrications, the 5th school thrives on this.

There maybe differences in opinions with regards to the Fiqhi issues, in some cases it might be fine, but in other cases it definitely causes confusion as pointed out by Shaykul Islam ibn Taymiyyah (rh). If they have a set method of deriving rules, then maybe it might work as this is their ijtihad. But when it comes to Aqeedah, even the Salafi don't follow the "claimed" Hanbali Aqeedah!

I don't know what to think of Mufti AR's comments

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 18:34

ali wrote:

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His comments are valid in terms of the definitions of Madhab. A "school of thought" is followed by a group no matter what the field. You have schools of thought in English, Science, Philosophy, History, etc where academics would follow one thought/opinion as the stronger or more valid opinion.

Similarly Salafism is also a school of thought in a literal sense and they have followers, Muqallids. In fact, I say they do more Taqleed (aka blind following) than we do. When a person says "he's blinded by love" it refers to a person who cannot see anything else but what he's blinded by. So one of key differences is that our laymen do not refute the other Madhaahib. Salafis on the other hand refute everything in sight that doesn't comply with their blind following.

So, while they're not from the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa'ah, they are indeed a 5th school of thought.

I'm certain the Mufti Sahib many many reasons to say this.

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 19:06

Yasin wrote:

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Asalamualaikum.

Hazrat, forgive my ignorance, but when you say they're not from Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaa'ah (I noticed the bold part) - do you mean they can't be regarded from the Sunni fold?

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 19:32

Imam Ali wrote:

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What do you understand the Jamaa'ah to be?

Many Salafi don't consider us to be of the saved sect. They believe they are the only ones from the saved sect!

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 19:52

Imam Ali wrote:

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See this thread also

www.muftisays.com/forums/76-the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/72...

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 20:48

The understanding I have from the Ghayr-Muqallideen sect (aka Salafis) differs from the research of respected Mufti sahab. Linguistically it might be regarded as a "Madhhab", but Shari' technically a "Madhhab" means to me a fixed set of principles (usul) to follow. When I follow the Hanafi Madhhab, I'm not following Imam Abu Hanifah [RA] but rather the principles laid down by Imam sahab. So, in whatever actions I perform I don't contradict myself unkowingly in the principles by which those masail have been derived. Do Ghayr-Muqallideen (Salafi) really follow one set of principles? Or did they break lose from the shackles of principles commanding their actions?

I can tolerate someone following strictly one scholar (even if Salafi). But sometimes quoting Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen [RH], at other times Shaykh al-Albani [RH], then Imam Ibn Taymiyyah [RH] and when they feel like Mufti Bin Baz [RH] is just ridiculous, especially since these did neither agree on all masail nor usool.

Maybe we can reconcile by calling Salafism the 5th Madhhab (path), but it's definitely disputed f it is also an accepted Madhhab or not...

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 20:53

True Life wrote:

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Salam

I'm thinking out loud here, do the Fuqaha/Ulema of all the 4 Madhabs agree on all masail and usool in their respective madhab ??

I have heard that the two famous students of Imam Abu Hanifa rahimullah had big disagreements with him, however these opinions were just noted down and left there.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 20:58

Jinn wrote:

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Differences in Masa'il does not matter, I'm talking about the basic principles that all scholars of the same Madhhab stick to. Are there any like that in Salafism?

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:02

True Life wrote:

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I don't really know bro, I was just thinking out loud. So what are these 'basic principles' that other madhabs Ulema stick to and the Salafi's one don't ?

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:02

True Life wrote:

Do Ghayr-Muqallideen (Salafi) really follow one set of principles?

Yes they do brother.

They follow "The strongest opinion" of the day.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:09

Jinn wrote:

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I think you slightly missed my point, bhai. If I want to study the Hanafi principles of Fiqh for example, there are 2 or 3 agreed upon fundamental works I need to study. If I want to study Salafi principles of Fiqh which book would I need to study? Now, each (direction of) Salafis will recommend different books. Because they follow different things and methodologies. There's no unity amongst Salafis on anything, it's hard for them to accept eachother and their differences amongst themselves. So, why should I be obliged to accept them as a Madhhab - accepted just as the widely accepted four?

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:12

Ali wrote:

The 4 schools of thought have a solid background, the 5th is constantly evolving and splitting away (even from each other), adding and taking away from their school.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:19

True Life wrote:

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@Brother Imam Ali too.

There was a name I came up with some time ago which can be found here. After all these years, looks like we still conclude the same.

"Ahl al-Sunnat al-Mansukha wa 'l-Tajdid."

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2014 21:28

The large harms of the Ghayr-Muqallid mentality are clearly visible and too detrimental to be just ignored. I'm not calling towards arguing, fighting or engaging in polemics with them. They remain our dear brothers and are thus entitled to utmost respect from our hearts, and I personally offline maintain very good and humble relationships with some of them. But I find it still very difficult to tolerate their approach of understanding our Deen, and their claimed independence of sticking to any sort of principles. The havoc the mentality has caused and is causing at this moment is just too horrible...

Just some food for thought: Most of our major fitnahs today have common traits, whichs roots lead back to the GM mentality/methodology/ideology. Observe it for yourself and do the math...

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The 5th Madhab

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