The Salafi Hijack

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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 19:27

thesunnah wrote:

I have a few questions, what is the ruling of a person who doesn't attribute himself to any of the four madhabs? is he still a muslim? can we pray behind him?

It will be permissible if the brother's Aqeedah is Sahih (correct), he doesn't believe that the Muqallideen (One who adheres to the Fiqh of one of the four Imams) are Mushriks, he doesn't swear and abuse the Salafs (pious predecessors), and he doesn't do any actions in Salaah that will nullify the Salaah according to your Madhab. (Ahsanul Fataawa Vol. 3 Pg. 282)

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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 19:44

abu mohammed wrote:

You haven't answered the question on the adhans for Jummah as practiced at some salafi mosques.

Mashallah the brother has given me answers to all the questions you asked, I haven't really had too much time to write it up, not sure if I will, I don't really want this discussion to be on specific rulings...

I have questions that relates to this topic:

1) if the Prophet pbuh did something, and one of the khaleefas did something else, does the action of the khaleefa abrogate the action of the prophet?
2) are both actions permissible?
3) if both are permissible, then which is better?

I asked this to the brother and his answers were:
1) it doesn't abrogate what the propehet pbuh did
2) both actions are permissible if there weren't any objections from the other sahaba
3) over here he said it depends on the reason as to why the sahabah made ijtihaad, and if the reasons are present today or not.

please answer these questions aswell.

sorry again for troubling you.

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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 19:52

my last post came up blank for some reason, please sort it out and remove this one when it's done

jzk

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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 19:58

Salam to all,

It's almost scary how interesting this topic is. It's also very confusing.

I don't want to spoil the topic and sound a little ignorant but I see many questions asking about rulings, IF's and other conditional cases.

Is this salafi vs ahlus-sunnah?
If it is, can I know the 2 arguments?

I read the above question posted by thesunnah and I wouldn't for the life of me know where to go. So am I not meant to follow my Madhab and leave the rulings to the scholars? Or do I have to go out of my way, leave my job and start hardcore studies to find the strongest proof myself?

Also, someone once said to me in regards to this topic, "I am a Salafi because I follow Imam Abu Hanifah" - Honestly I didn't get it then but now I do. The real Salafi is the one who follows the real Salaf so that means I'm Salafi in the true sense right?

Or have I got all this mixed up and lost myself somewhere? I thought religion was easy? It was easy while I followed a Madhab. Now it's just confusing

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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 21:21

Quote:

1) if the Prophet pbuh did something, and one of the khaleefas did something else, does the action of the khaleefa abrogate the action of the prophet?
2) are both actions permissible?
3) if both are permissible, then which is better?

The first Question is slightly wrong. If the Prophet did something, how in the world can the Khaleeefas do something else? Rather it should be If the Prophet did something and the Khaleefas added to it, does that then become Sunnah Muakkada and abrogate or add to what the Prophet did? eg, Taraweeh confirmed as 20 Rakat, 3 Talaqs in one go (as agreed upon by Imam Bukhari), Adhan of Uthman, Woman being stopped from to the Masjid due to fitna.

If the first question is wrong, then 2 & 3 become void.

All three questions, if taken correctly are answered by the following Hadith.

Sunnah of the Khulafah-e-Raashideen:

Following the Sunnah of the Khulafah-e-Raashideen is in accordance to the command of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam). Imaam Tirmizi (Rahmatullahi Alaih) narrates the following Hadith in Tirmizi Shareef in the section Abwaabul Ilm (chapters of knowledge) under the chapter - Chapter on holding firmly onto the Sunnah and Abstaining from Bid'ah.

Irbaad bin Saariya (RadhiyAllahu Anhu) narrates: "Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) preached to us one day after Fajar with utmost eloquence which caused the eyes to tear and the hearts to tremble. A man then said: "Definitely this is the advice of a person bidding farewell, hence what do you emphatically command us with O Messenger of Allah? He (Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said: "I emphatically command you with the fear of Allah and the listening and obedience even (if your leader be) an Abyssinian slave. Verily who lives from amongst you will observe such dissension. Save yourself from newly invented matters because it is definitely misguidance. Whosoever reaches that era from amongst you then my Sunnah and Sunnah of the rightly guided Khulafa is mandatory upon him. Bite upon it (the Sunnah) with the molars (i.e. stick dogeddly to it or cling stubbornly to it). (Tirmizi vol.2 pg.92)

Imaam Tirmizi (Rahmatullahi Alaih) narrates this Hadith and commented: "This Hadith is Hasan and Sahih." Both words indicating the authenticity of Tuhfatul Ahwazee (commentary of Tirmizi) states about this Hadith: "Imaam Ahmad, Abu Dawood and Ibne Majah (Rahmatullahi Alaihim) have reported it (this Hadith) and Abu Dawood (Rahmatullahi Alaih) maintained silence about it. Allamah Munziri (Rahmatullahi Alaih) transmitted the authentication of Imaam Tirmizi (Rahmatullahi Alaih) and confirmed it. (Tuhfatul Ahwazee vol.7 pg.368)

Hafiz Ibne Hajar (Rahmatullahi Alaih) examining this Hadith mentions: "Imaam Ahmad, Abu Dawod, Tirmizi, Ibne Majah, Ibne Hibbaan and Haakim (Rahmatullahi Alaihim) report it from Irbaad bin Saariya. Allamah Bazzaar (Rahmatullahi Alaih) said: "Its Sanad is more Sahih than the Hadith of Huzaifah (RadhiyAllahu Anhu)." (Talkheesul Habeer vol.2 pg. 190).

Shaykh Al-Albaani has mentioned this Hadith in his work in Sunan Ibne Majah entitled: "Sahih Sunan Ibne Majah." He brought the Hadith with three different chains of narrators from Irbaad bin Saariya (RadhiyAllahu Anhu) and has regarded all to be Sahih.

So it is clear which method will hold pole position.

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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 22:03

I'm sorry brother but you haven't answered the questions, no one is saying you don't follow the khaleefas, can you please answer the questions properly, I will repeat them in case you haven't understood.

1) if the Prophet pbuh did something, and one of the khaleefas did something which was slightly different (he added something, or took it away...) does the action of the khaleefa abrogate the action of the prophet? (does it wipe out what the prophet pbuh did... does his action/statement make it haram for us to do that which the prophet pbuh did???)

2) are both actions permissible? (can we choose which of the two actions we want to practice)

3) if both are permissible, then which is better? (is the action the prophet pbuh better or is the one the khaleefa did better or are they both the same???)

I don't know if I could be clearer than this

can you please answer them in numbers please so the answer is clear.

jazakallahu kahairan

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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 22:42

I was just reading an article online, it said that abrogation can never happen after the death of the prophet pbuh, the proof they gave was an ayah in the Quran, "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as your religion"

is this correct? if so then how do we reconcile with what you said "does that then become Sunnah Muakkada and abrogate"

please clarify

I'm not saying this to pick on you but it's just a reminder inshallah for myself first and foremost and then the rest of my brothers, please be careful when you post something because you will be accountable if you guess or lie on the religion because the prophet pbuh said "whoever lies on me intentionally, then let him reserve his seat in the fire" (or as he said pbuh).

jazakallahu khairan

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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:00

Quote:

I'm sorry brother but you haven't answered the questions

He actually did answer it and also pointed out an extremely important point and correction in the wrongness and danger of the question itself.

"This day, I have perfected for you your Deen" is also an indication towards the Deen being perfected on that day (end of the lifetime of Nabi (saw)

) hence it will not be as strong as it is after 'today'. This is proven by the broken Islam of today.

Therefore, to say that anything done, changed or stopped after the time goes against the words of Allah سبحانه وتعالى is incorrect.

Your questions first and foremost do not have Yes or No answers. Answering YES as a complete answer holds many ramifications as does answering NO.

There are stages in your answer with the first stage being
1) No
2) No
3) Nabi (saw)

The question is, are the Sahaabah sinful for adding to or removing from an act which was valid during the lifetime of Nabi (saw)

?

What is the answer?

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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:18

I'm not saying the sahaba are sinful or anything similar to that, I'm just asking a question, I'm not challenging you, I'm nothing when compared to you lot, I'm just confused so I'm asking the sheikhs, I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway.

I don't understand your answer, you said it doesn't abrogate the statement of the prophet pbuh, but then said you can't choose which from the two are correct, I will give an example to make my question clearer inshallah.

I was told that at the time of the prophet pbuh, Abu Bakr and Umar, there was only one azan, then at the time of Uthman he introduced a second azan due to the ummah expanding etc.
my question is, the prophet pbuh told us to follow himself and the khaleefas. The prophet pbuh and the best 2 khalifas did one azan, then uthaman did 2 azans, my question is, are you saying that Uthmans ruling of 2 azans has abrogated what the prophet pbuh, abu bakr and umar did so it has now become haram to do one azan?

if you say it hasn't abrogated it, then it can't be haram to do one azan, but if you say 1 azan is haram to do then it means your saying it's abrogated, because the ruling of 1 azan has been lifted and replaced by 2 azans, this is what abrogation means.

please can you clarify.

jazakallahu khairan

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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:20

Brother, you have asked an incorrect question. I have tried to elaborate on your question to make things clearer.

You are intentionally or unintentionally playing with words. That is why I am not answering such questions out of my own accord. I am either giving you links that you don't want to open or posting only that what the scholars have provided.

You want to accept the Hadith or play with words. It's your choice. It's a classic salafi tactic.

You have clearly not understood the Hadith., rather you wish to put words in peoples mouth

Sorry for being harsh, but it is apparent that you have not read any of the links or articles provided.

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#131 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:23

Sorry I didn't see the 2 posts before the above. I was typing whilst they were posted.

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#132 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:26

abu mohammed wrote:

You want to accept the Hadith or play with words. It's your choice. It's a classic salafi tactic.

this is one proof of you slandering ALL the salafis in the world.

it's very surprising because you were the one saying you were going to take that brothers deeds for slandering.

please read carefully what I've written, I'm not playing around with any words

jazakallahu khairan

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#133 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:27

Nobody has said doing one adhan is haram, again you are putting words in our mouth.

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#134 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:29

There is a difference in abrogation and addition.

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#135 [Permalink] Posted on 14th October 2011 23:34

"thesunnah" wrote:

"abu mohammed" wrote:

You want to accept the Hadith or play with words. It's your choice. It's a classic salafi tactic.

this is one proof of you slandering ALL the salafis in the world. it's very surprising because you were the one saying you were going to take that brothers deeds for slandering. please read carefully what I've written, I'm not playing around with any words jazakallahu khairan

Yes I should be careful. I should see it coming. So stop inciting me and playing with words. The answer you are looking for is there and valid but you are looking for the wrong answer.

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Actions are judged by intentions, so each man will have what he intended.
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