Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

When the Hadith is authentic then that is my Madhab

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Topic Poll
» Yes
100%
7 members | 0 guests
» No
0%
0 members | 0 guests
» Waste of time
0%
0 members | 0 guests
» I'm a Salafi / Ghair Muqallid
0%
0 members | 0 guests
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
sweetmuslimahk1, member2, queenie, Seifeddine-M, abu mohammed, Yasin, Taalibah, Maria al-Qibtiyya, the fake shaykh, dr76
4 guests appreciate this topic.
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#61 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2010 11:35
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Asslamo Allaikum, Our respected brother doesn't seem to be making any coherent points anymore.


I have been informed That Brother Sohael has been injured and for that reason he is unable to respond. We pray to Allah for his quick recovery. Then he can read all the posts and either accept or respond.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#62 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2010 12:12
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Asslamo Allaikum, Anyone who calls for ditching of the Madhabs and bases this opinion on Saudi Scholars is frankly a MORON!
www.ibnfarooq.com/seekingKnowledgeUthaymeen.html

Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) on the other hand and his students are Anti-Madhab and that’s why the Ahl-e-Hadeeth lean towards Shaykh Al-Albani (RA). Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) on the other hand was the son of an Albanian Hanafi Scholar and it is possible that the excesses of his father turned him “Anti-Hanafi”. Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) also tried to tried to rewrite Fiqh rulings “independent of Madhabs”but his works were not completed. In short, it is wrong to put Saudi Scholars and Ahl-e-Hadeeth in the same bracket as overwhelming majority of Saudi Scholars were and are “Hanbali in Madhab”. To further prove this point of difference further Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) wrote his famous Salah book which is refuted by many Hanafees. A refutation of this very book was written by Sheikh Hamoud At-Tuwaijri (RA) who a student of Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA)...If Salafees and Ahl-e-Hadeeth were the same why did the Saudi Scholars had the need to refute Shaykh Al-Albani (RA)? Saudi Scholars have also refuted Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) on Niqab, on Tashahuud and other matters.


It is a very strange mix. Each one of them denies any link with the other. When I speak to Salafis, they say we are not of them, they are Saudi Salafi, or Psuedo Salafi (Dont ask!). If I ask them are you Ahle Hadith, some times there is no response. They deny any link with a group. It is obvious now that these people go under the name of the Hanabila.

My neighbours are Ahle Hadith, they only go to the Salafi mosque a few miles away which is/was under the imamat of Shaykh Shuaib Hassan (DB), and now their is a new mosque in StokeNewington where the Ahle Hadith and Salafis are all one. I have even been told that Shaykh Haitham al-Haddad (DB) spent a lot of time there during Ramadhan. The Imams of this mosque have studied in Madinah and are very young, therefore there is a sense of attraction towards them. (Like a Fashion trend).

The most popular website used by them also affirms the Ahle Hadith statement of Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal. this is another reason why they dont fully deny the connection.


This, I think is proof that they are Salafi, Wahabi, Ahle Hadith all 3 in 1. (Trinity)

Praise be to Allaah.

The phrase Ahl al-Hadeeth (people of hadeeth) refers to a group who venerate the Sunnah and seek to propagate it. They adhere to the 'aqeedah (beliefs) of the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). In seeking to understand their religion, they refer to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and the interpretation of the best generations, unlike others who adhere to beliefs other than the 'aqeedah of the righteous salaf and refer to human reasoning, tastes and what they see in dreams.

This group is the saved group, the victorious party, which many imams have stated is the group referred to in the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "A group of my ummah will continue to prevail, following the truth. They will not be harmed by those who humiliate them until the decree of Allaah comes to pass when they are like that." (Narrated by Muslim, 1920).

The imams, in the past and more recently, have said a great deal describing this group. We may chose from among them the following:

1 - al-Haakim said:

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal did well when he commented on this report by saying that the victorious group who will prevail until the Hour begins is "ashaab al-hadeeth" (the people of hadeeth). Who is more deserving of this description than people who follow the way of the righteous and follow in the footsteps of the salaf who came before us, and exposed the falsehood of the people of bid'ah (innovation) by basing their arguments on the Sunnahs of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)?

Ma'rifat 'Uloom al-Hadeeth, by al-Haakim al-Nisaboori, p. 2, 3

See the link for full details;
www.islamqa.com/en/ref/12761/ahle%20hadith



What happen with Shaykh Albani (in terms of his father being a Hanafi) is what the youngsters are doing today. They want to be different from their parents, they dont agree with their parents so they take up another way. At least (I guess) it is still Islam, there are many who renounce Islam just so that they can hurt their parents. It is a real mess. The sweet words of Shaytan are disguised to look like Haq and at the same time his words are going against the Ijma of the Ummah for the last 1400 years.
Whoever opposes the Rasool after the guidance (the truth of Islam) has become manifest (clear) to him and follows a path other than that of the Mu'mineen, We shall allow him to do that thing which he is doing and then enter him into Jahannam. It is the worst of abodes.
Surah Nisaa: Verse 115

O you who have Imaan! Obey Alllah, obey the Rasool and those in command among you (your leaders and authorities in all fields, such as the Imams of Jurisprudence in Fiqh). If you dispute regarding any matter, then refer it to Allah (find the solution in the Qur'an) and the Rasool (or find the solution in the sunnat) if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is best (for all) and gives the best results (because then you will not be basing your decisions on your personal opinions).
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,517
Sister
2,925
ummi taalib's avatar
#63 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2010 19:58
assalaamu 'alaykum
the request of queeni for info on Spain is a good idea as it holds great lessons. I'm starting a new thread with the hope that others will add(and correct if the need arises) as i'm familiar with the begining of the story but not the end...i'm sure bro Muadh has plenty of info about the bit where a woman was the cause!
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Seifeddine-M's avatar
London
4,762
Brother
4,174
Seifeddine-M's avatar
#64 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2010 22:48
abu mohammed wrote:
When I saw your comment about you being an aerospace engineer, the first thoughts that came to me were, alHamduLillah, Khalid bin Waleed, and SubhanAllah.


السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

Please elaborate أخي

جزاك اللهُ خيراً

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#65 [Permalink] Posted on 24th November 2010 21:34
I heard a talk by Shaykh Zahir Mahmood on Khlaid bin Waleed (RA), brilliant talk. he said in his own words how he emraced Islams, below is just a rough idea,

The Prophet(SAW) had commented to Kalid bin Waleeds brother that, Allah Almighty would surely one day bring Khalid bin Waleed to the Prophet(SAW) to embrace Islam. It was not possible that his intelligent, perspective and able brother should be deprived of the blessings of Allah Almighty and Islam.

This was just a thought that came to my mind instantly, it is not a comment for any one.

Intelligence, able brother, deprived. Just a thought. May Allah have mercy on us all and guide us all to the Siratul Mustaqeem.

Like I said, it was just a thought not an opinion on any one.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#66 [Permalink] Posted on 9th December 2010 12:09
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#67 [Permalink] Posted on 9th December 2010 12:37
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#68 [Permalink] Posted on 5th January 2011 21:25
This is a comment from the blog post on this subject.

Quote:
muslim wrote on 05/01/2011:
u people r playing with fire


This is what one would say to a fireman. But what is the fireman really doing?
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0Like x 2
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
115
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#69 [Permalink] Posted on 9th January 2011 08:40

QUOTE -----------

Issue 3:

Was Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) a Hanafi or a Maliki?

The correct and honest answer to that matter is that Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) was a Mujtahid Imam who benefitted from both and narrated Ahadeeth from both Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) and Imam Malik (RA) and some of the great Imams of their time are known to change Schools e.g. Imam Tahawi (RA) was a Shaf’ae and became a Hanafi.

So can we be conclusively declare Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) to be Maliki on the statement of Qadi Iyadh (RA), alone?

Allah (SWT) knows best as this matter is discussed between Hanafi & Maliki Ulaama.

The points to consider are as follows:
 

  • There are LOADS of Authentic statements from Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) about Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa and not a single retraction and change of opinion.
  • EVEN if he changed his Madhab he NEVER uttered anything bad OR retracted his opinion
  • For a moment lets accept that its act and he became Maliki then we would say that even an illustrious Mujtahid Imam like Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) went from following one Imam (Abu Haneefa (RA)) to following another Imam i.e. Imam Malik (RA) i.e. he didn't go free-riding : - )
  • Imam Tahawi (RA) the Imam of Aqeedah went from being a Shaf'ae to being a Hanafi i.e. went from following one Imam (Ash-Sahf'ae (RA)) to following another Imam i.e. Imam Abu-Haneefa (RA) i.e. he didn't go free-riding : - )
  • I will prempt the reply and present the only possibly nagative statement from Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) is where he called Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa "Miskeen Fil Hadeeth" and that matter is explained by Imam Al-Kawthari (RA) as:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?12869-Condemnation-of-Abu-Hanifa-by-Salafis-ANSWERED!

...that the statement of Abdullah bin Mubarak where he said: “Abu Haneefah is miskeen in hadith,” in no way implies that Imam Abu Haneefah had very little knowledge in the science of hadith. Rather, being miskeen in hadith refers to the fact that Imam Abu Haneefah's focus was not directed towards relating many turuq (chain of narrators) when narrating a hadith as is the habit of those muhadditheen who have devoted themselves solely for the transmitting of hadith.

Being a mujtahid, Imam Sahib's attention was focused to a greater extent to the deducing of ahkaam (laws and verdicts) from the various ahadeeth. (Ta’neeb-ul-Khateeb, pg 235)

The one thing for sure is that Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) had great opinion about Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) and he DID NOT retract his views until death came to him.

Mujtahid Imams could disagree with Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) even his illustrious students like Imam Abu Yusuf (RA) or Imam Muhammad (RA) did but the points which are being highlighted are two:

  1. Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) is regarded in an undisputed manner as one of the greatest of Salaf
  2. The Imams which disagreed with him were Mujtahid Imams themselves and there is censor or problem with that

Once you agree with points 1 & 2 then there is no problem with a layman following one of the greatest Salaf since he/she is incapable of Ijtehaad.

Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) is not only Salaf but one of the greatest and Qur'aan & Sunnah command me to follow Salaf which I am doing.

Salaf disagreed with each other (based on daleel) so I have no problems Imam Malik Ibn Anas (RA) and his opinions and his Madhab.

In case of Raf Al-Yadain both of the greatest of the Salafs i.e. Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) & Imam Darul-Hijrah Malik Ibn Anas (RA) and their Madhabs agree on the matter, simply saying that these two great Salafs agree means that there are bound to be some from the Salaf who disagreed with them and again that’s fine.

The fact of the matter is that this is an issue of disagreement amongst Salaf and we accept that and follow the Salaf and have our daleel but as per the history of the Muslim Ummah we neither censor nor disrespect the position of Imam Ash-Shaf’ae (RA) & Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA)and we will discuss this later (if there is a need) on the specific issue.

Jazakullah Khairun

---------------------- END QUOTE

Asslamo Allaikum,

I asked respected Ulama of South Africa to research this statement and find the original quote in Arabic and here it is and this works against Salafees and I will produce the original as-is:

وتقريب المسالك - (ج 1 / ص 101)
من أهل المشرق
عبد الله بن المبارك
وهو مولى بني تميم. ثم لبني حنيفة مروزي وكنيته أبو عبد الرحمان. سمع من ابن أبي ليلى وهشام بن عروة والأعمش وسليمان التيمي وحميد الطويل ويحيى بن سعيد وابن عون وموسى بن عقبة والسفيانيين والأوزاعي وابن أبي ذئب ومالكاً ومعمراً وشعبة وحيوة بن شريح وقرأ على أبي عمرو بن العلاء والليث وغيرهم. روى عنه ابن مهدي وعبد الرزاق ويحيى القطان وابن وهب وغيرهم. قال ابن وهب: ما فات ابن المبارك من مشيختنا إلا عمرو بن الحارث. قال الشيرازي تفقه بمالك والثوري، وكان أولاً من أصحاب أبي حنيفة ثم تركه ورجع عن مذهبه. قال ابن وضاح: ضرب آخراً في كتبه على أبي حنيفة ولم يقرأه للناس.
ذكر مكانته من العلم والثناء عليه
قال أبو إسحاق الفزاري: ابن المبارك إمام المسلمين. وكان الفزاري يجلس بين يديه فيسأله. وقال شعبة: ما قدم من ناحيته مثله. قال ابن مهدي: لقيت أربعة من الفقهاء: مالكاً وشعبة وسفيان وابن المبارك. وفي بعضها: حماد، مكان شعبة. فما رأيت أنصح للأمة من ابن المبارك وحديث لا يعرفه ابن المبارك لا نعرفه. وسئل ابن مهدي عنه وعن الثوري أيهما أفضل، فقال ابن المبارك. فقيل له: إن الناس يخالفونك. قال: الناس لم يجربوا. ما رأيت مثل ابن المبارك. وكان ينسخه وحده. ولما نعي ابن المبارك إلى سفيان بن عيينة قال: رحمه الله. لقد كان فقيهاً عالماً عابداً زاهداً سجيناً شجاعاً شاعراً. وقال أيضاً: ما قدم علينا أحد يشبه ابن المبارك وابن أبي زائدة. قال محمد بن المعتمر: قلت لأبي لما مات الثوري: من فقيه العرب؟ قال ابن المبارك. قال الأوزاعي لأبي عثمان الكلبي عنه: لو رأيته لقرت عينك. وقال علي: هو ثقة. قال أبو حاتم: هو إمام. قال أبو زرعة: اجتمع فيه فقه ومروءة وشجاعة وسخاء وأشياء. وقال داود العطار: هو رجل طلع علينا من ناحية المشرق. وقال النسائي: ولا يعلم أحد في عصر ابن المبارك أجل منه ولا أعلى ولا أجمع لكل خصلة محمودة منه. وقال سلام بن مطيع: ما خلق بالمشرق مثله، وابن المبارك أحب إلي من الثوري. وقال ابن وضاح: سمعت جماعة من أهل العلم يقولون: اجتمع في ابن المبارك العلم والفتيا، والحديث والمعرفة بالرجال، والشعر والسخاء والعبادة والورع

 

Basically in this section of the book there is a small biography of the great Imam of Hadeeth Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) and if the statement of Imam Shirazi (RA) is taken as Authentic then it would simply mean as we pointed out earlier that one of the greatest Imams of Hadeeth i.e. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) adopted the Fiqh (the word in Arabic is Tafaqahu) of Imam Malik & Sufyan At-Thawri (RA).

So assuming that the historical account of Imam Shirazi is accurate it would mean:

  1. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) used to follow the Fiqh of Imam Abu Haneefa (RA)
  2. And then he adopted the Madhab of Imam Malik (RA) & Sufyan At-Thawri (RA)
  3. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) NEVER made any disparaging or insulting comments towards Imam Abu Haneefa (RA).

This is a very serious and damning indictment of those who reject Madhabs because one of the greatest Imams of Hadeeth went from making Taqleed of one Imam to another Imam and he didn't go "free-lancing" and starting picking and choosing!

Anyone with a basic understanding of Arabic language can tell what is clearly written by Imam Shirazi (RA) and the rest of the quote is about the high rank of this noble Imam in Hadeeth.

Jazakullah Khairun for Ulama of South Africa in locating and providing the original text and may Allah (SWT) reward them for their efforts in this life and the next (Ameen).

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
UK
11,537
Brother
115
Muadh_Khan's avatar
#70 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2011 15:46
Quote:
Issue 3:

Was Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) a Hanafi or a Maliki?

The correct and honest answer to that matter is that Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) was a Mujtahid Imam who benefitted from both and narrated Ahadeeth from both Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) and Imam Malik (RA) and some of the great Imams of their time are known to change Schools e.g. Imam Tahawi (RA) was a Shaf’ae and became a Hanafi.

So can we be conclusively declare Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) to be Maliki on the statement of Qadi Iyadh (RA), alone?

Allah (SWT) knows best as this matter is discussed between Hanafi & Maliki Ulaama.

The points to consider are as follows:
 

  • There are LOADS of Authentic statements from Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) about Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa and not a single retraction and change of opinion.
  • EVEN if he changed his Madhab he NEVER uttered anything bad OR retracted his opinion
  • For a moment lets accept that its act and he became Maliki then we would say that even an illustrious Mujtahid Imam like Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) went from following one Imam (Abu Haneefa (RA)) to following another Imam i.e. Imam Malik (RA) i.e. he didn't go free-riding : - )
  • Imam Tahawi (RA) the Imam of Aqeedah went from being a Shaf'ae to being a Hanafi i.e. went from following one Imam (Ash-Sahf'ae (RA)) to following another Imam i.e. Imam Abu-Haneefa (RA) i.e. he didn't go free-riding : - )
  • I will prempt the reply and present the only possibly nagative statement from Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) is where he called Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa "Miskeen Fil Hadeeth" and that matter is explained by Imam Al-Kawthari (RA) as:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?12869-Condemnation-of-Abu-Hanifa-by-Salafis-ANSWERED!

...that the statement of Abdullah bin Mubarak where he said: “Abu Haneefah is miskeen in hadith,” in no way implies that Imam Abu Haneefah had very little knowledge in the science of hadith. Rather, being miskeen in hadith refers to the fact that Imam Abu Haneefah's focus was not directed towards relating many turuq (chain of narrators) when narrating a hadith as is the habit of those muhadditheen who have devoted themselves solely for the transmitting of hadith.

Being a mujtahid, Imam Sahib's attention was focused to a greater extent to the deducing of ahkaam (laws and verdicts) from the various ahadeeth. (Ta’neeb-ul-Khateeb, pg 235)

The one thing for sure is that Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) had great opinion about Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) and he DID NOT retract his views until death came to him.

Mujtahid Imams could disagree with Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) even his illustrious students like Imam Abu Yusuf (RA) or Imam Muhammad (RA) did but the points which are being highlighted are two:

  1. Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) is regarded in an undisputed manner as one of the greatest of Salaf
  2. The Imams which disagreed with him were Mujtahid Imams themselves and there is censor or problem with that

Once you agree with points 1 & 2 then there is no problem with a layman following one of the greatest Salaf since he/she is incapable of Ijtehaad.

Imam Abu Haneefa (RA) is not only Salaf but one of the greatest and Qur'aan & Sunnah command me to follow Salaf which I am doing.

Salaf disagreed with each other (based on daleel) so I have no problems Imam Malik Ibn Anas (RA) and his opinions and his Madhab.

In case of Raf Al-Yadain both of the greatest of the Salafs i.e. Imam Al-Adham Abu Haneefa (RA) & Imam Darul-Hijrah Malik Ibn Anas (RA) and their Madhabs agree on the matter, simply saying that these two great Salafs agree means that there are bound to be some from the Salaf who disagreed with them and again that’s fine.

The fact of the matter is that this is an issue of disagreement amongst Salaf and we accept that and follow the Salaf and have our daleel but as per the history of the Muslim Ummah we neither censor nor disrespect the position of Imam Ash-Shaf’ae (RA) & Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RA)and we will discuss this later (if there is a need) on the specific issue.

Jazakullah Khairun

Asslamo Allaikum,

I asked respected Ulama of South Africa to research this statement and find the original quote in Arabic and here it is and this works against Salafees and I will produce the original as-is:

وتقريب المسالك - (ج 1 / ص 101)
من أهل المشرق
عبد الله بن المبارك
وهو مولى بني تميم. ثم لبني حنيفة مروزي وكنيته أبو عبد الرحمان. سمع من ابن أبي ليلى وهشام بن عروة والأعمش وسليمان التيمي وحميد الطويل ويحيى بن سعيد وابن عون وموسى بن عقبة والسفيانيين والأوزاعي وابن أبي ذئب ومالكاً ومعمراً وشعبة وحيوة بن شريح وقرأ على أبي عمرو بن العلاء والليث وغيرهم. روى عنه ابن مهدي وعبد الرزاق ويحيى القطان وابن وهب وغيرهم. قال ابن وهب: ما فات ابن المبارك من مشيختنا إلا عمرو بن الحارث. قال الشيرازي تفقه بمالك والثوري، وكان أولاً من أصحاب أبي حنيفة ثم تركه ورجع عن مذهبه. قال ابن وضاح: ضرب آخراً في كتبه على أبي حنيفة ولم يقرأه للناس.
ذكر مكانته من العلم والثناء عليه
قال أبو إسحاق الفزاري: ابن المبارك إمام المسلمين. وكان الفزاري يجلس بين يديه فيسأله. وقال شعبة: ما قدم من ناحيته مثله. قال ابن مهدي: لقيت أربعة من الفقهاء: مالكاً وشعبة وسفيان وابن المبارك. وفي بعضها: حماد، مكان شعبة. فما رأيت أنصح للأمة من ابن المبارك وحديث لا يعرفه ابن المبارك لا نعرفه. وسئل ابن مهدي عنه وعن الثوري أيهما أفضل، فقال ابن المبارك. فقيل له: إن الناس يخالفونك. قال: الناس لم يجربوا. ما رأيت مثل ابن المبارك. وكان ينسخه وحده. ولما نعي ابن المبارك إلى سفيان بن عيينة قال: رحمه الله. لقد كان فقيهاً عالماً عابداً زاهداً سجيناً شجاعاً شاعراً. وقال أيضاً: ما قدم علينا أحد يشبه ابن المبارك وابن أبي زائدة. قال محمد بن المعتمر: قلت لأبي لما مات الثوري: من فقيه العرب؟ قال ابن المبارك. قال الأوزاعي لأبي عثمان الكلبي عنه: لو رأيته لقرت عينك. وقال علي: هو ثقة. قال أبو حاتم: هو إمام. قال أبو زرعة: اجتمع فيه فقه ومروءة وشجاعة وسخاء وأشياء. وقال داود العطار: هو رجل طلع علينا من ناحية المشرق. وقال النسائي: ولا يعلم أحد في عصر ابن المبارك أجل منه ولا أعلى ولا أجمع لكل خصلة محمودة منه. وقال سلام بن مطيع: ما خلق بالمشرق مثله، وابن المبارك أحب إلي من الثوري. وقال ابن وضاح: سمعت جماعة من أهل العلم يقولون: اجتمع في ابن المبارك العلم والفتيا، والحديث والمعرفة بالرجال، والشعر والسخاء والعبادة والورع

 

Basically in this section of the book there is a small biography of the great Imam of Hadeeth Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) and if the statement of Imam Shirazi (RA) is taken as Authentic then it would simply mean as we pointed out earlier that one of the greatest Imams of Hadeeth i.e. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) adopted the Fiqh (the word in Arabic is Tafaqahu) of Imam Malik & Sufyan At-Thawri (RA).

So assuming that the historical account of Imam Shirazi is accurate it would mean:

  1. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) used to follow the Fiqh of Imam Abu Haneefa (RA)
  2. And then he adopted the Madhab of Imam Malik (RA) & Sufyan At-Thawri (RA)
  3. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Abi Mubarak (RA) NEVER made any disparaging or insulting comments towards Imam Abu Haneefa (RA).

This is a very serious and damning indictment of those who reject Madhabs because one of the greatest Imams of Hadeeth went from making Taqleed of one Imam to another Imam and he didn't go "free-lancing" and starting picking and choosing!

Anyone with a basic understanding of Arabic language can tell what is clearly written by Imam Shirazi (RA) and the rest of the quote is about the high rank of this noble Imam in Hadeeth.

Jazakullah Khairun for Ulama of South Africa in locating and providing the original text and may Allah (SWT) reward them for their efforts in this life and the next (Ameen).[/quote]

Asslamo Allaikum All,

In addition...I am pretty sure that the person posting this objection has NEVER read the book itself because in the same book there is a section called, "Akhbar Abi Haneefa (RA) Wa Ashaab (The news of Abu Haneefa (RA) and his companions" and it says in this section:

قال سعيد بن منصور قال سمعت فضيل بن عياض يقول كان أبو حنيفة معروفا بكثرة الأفضال وقلة الكلام وإكرام العلم وأهله

Saeed bin Mansoor (RA) says that he heard Fudhail bin Ayyadh (RA) say, "Abu Haneefa (RA) was well known for a great number of virtues, minimal speech and honouring of knowledge and those who are associated with it"

Maulana Yasin Saheb (HA) is requested to correct my shody translation.

Jazakullah Khairun

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#71 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2011 19:02
Jazakallah brother Muadh.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
London
26,784
Brother
9,652
abu mohammed's avatar
#72 [Permalink] Posted on 18th January 2011 21:21
Please add your thoughts to the Poll, Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#73 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 04:04
Assalamu Alaikum

Sorry to revive this ancient thread, but it was linked to in this thread www.muftisays.com/forums/27-sharing-portal/8697-new-blog-... . The blog mentioned in that thread also quotes the same passage from Imam Nawawi which was quoted in the opening post of this thread, although I realize the thread went a bit off topic.

My question is why do people only quote part of the passage from Imam Nawawi. As explained below,Imam Nawawi does give permission for the layman to follow ahadith if it contradicts their madhab, albeit with certain conditions. This does not necessarily mean, however, that once can follow the hadith and then say this is the madhab of Imam Shafi.
I will reproduce the passage from Imam Nawawi below:

Quote:
“If an authentic hadith contradicts my opinion [in fiqh], act upon the hadith and abandon my opinion.”1

Imam An-Nawawi commented upon the first statement,

“What Imam Ash-Shafi’i said does not mean that everyone who sees a Sahih hadith should say “This is the madhhab of Al-Shafi’i,” applying the purely external or apparent meaning of his statement. What he said most certainly applies only to such a person as has the rank of ijtihad in the madhhab. It is a condition for such a person that he be firmly convinced that either Imam Al-Shafi’i was unaware of this hadith or he was unaware of its authenticity. And this is possible only after having researched all the books of al-Shafi’i and other similar books of the companions of al-Shafi’i, those who took knowledge from him and others similar to them.

This is indeed a difficult condition to fulfill. Few are those who measure up to this standard in our times2 What we have explained has been made conditional because Imam Al-Shafi’i had abandoned acting purely on the external meaning of many proofs for criticism of the hadith or its abrogation or specific circumstances or interpretation and so forth.

Shaykh Abu ‘Amr [Ibn Al-Salah] said: “It is no trivial matter to act according to the literal meaning of what Imam Al-Shafi’i said. For it is impermissible for every faqih – let alone an ordinary person (‘ammi) – to act independently with what he takes to be a proof from the hadith…[/quote]

The opening post in this thread, as well as others who use this statement from Imam Nawawi, usually stop here. But the text continues and it is stated further down the passage:

Quote:
.....Shaykh Abu ‘Amr [Ibn Al-Salah] said:Therefore, any Shafi’i that finds a hadith that contradicts his School must examine whether he is absolutely accomplished in all the disciplines of ijtihad, or in that particular topic, or specific question. [If he is,] then he has the right to apply it independently. If he is not, but finds t hat contravening the hadith bears too heavily upon him – after having researched it and found no justification for contravening it – then he may apply it if another independent Imam other than Al-Shafi’i applies it. This is a good reason for him to leave the madhhab of his Imam in such a case.”3

[Translation taken from "The Four Imams and their Schools" by Shaykh Gibril Fouad Haddad published by Muslim Academic Trust pp. 225-226, and reproduced here with the permission of Shaykh Gibril for Shafiifiqh.com]
read the passage here: www.shafiifiqh.com/commentary-if-the-hadith-is-authentic-...

And Maulana Taha Karan also explains this below and inmany of his lectures as well:

[quote]LEAVING THE BOUNDS OF THE MADHHAB
There will inevitably be instances where followers of a particular madhhab come face to face with ahadith to which their madhhab apparently does not conform. What is to be done in such cases? Should the person summarily abandon the teaching of the madhhab in favour of the hadith? Or should he dutifully stick to the madhhab and ignore the hadith?
Neither of these two approaches is free from certain undesirable outcomes. The fuqaha of our madhhab have therefore resolved the issue in a most ingenious manner that addresses both the praiseworthy desire to practice upon the hadith and the apprehension that this may lead to chaotic fiqh. In his introduction to al-Majmu‘ (vol. 1 p. 136) Imam al-Nawawi provides us with the following guidelines:
Any Shafi‘i who finds a hadith going against his madhhab should look into the matter [as follows]: If he possesses the complete requirements of ijtihad without restriction, or in that chapter, or [even] in that point [alone], he may independently practice upon [the hadith]. If he does not [possess it] and finds it difficult to go against the hadith, and his search for a valid explanation of the hadith [within his madhhab] does not provide a convincing solution, then he may practice upon the hadith with one condition, which is that another independent [mujtahid] imam other than al-Shafi‘i should have practiced upon it. This would then be a valid pretext for him to leave the madhhab of his imam.
It is of interest here to note that all the other major schools of thought have, with varying degrees of moderation, looked upon skin contact between male and female as nullifying wudu. The Hanbalis and Malikis add the condition of deriving pleasure from such contact, while the Hanafis regard only such contact to nullify the wudu whereby there is mutual touching of the sexual organs without penetration. It should be admitted, though, that this position of the Hanafi madhhab is not founded upon the verse that speaks of touching women, but rather upon the contention that such touching almost invariably leads to the emission of fluid, which in itself is factor that nullifies the wudu.
The idea behind following madhahib is not to turn people into prisoners of their madhahib, but rather to facilitate practicing upon the Qur’an and the Sunnah. No madhhab has ever purported to be a replacement for the Qur’an and the Sunnah, nor can it ever be. The facility that a madhhab provides is that of a systematic approach to the sources of our law, accompanied by the benefit of generation after generation of the best, purest and most capable minds. And even then, there has been recognition of the fact that situations do arise when the follower of a madhhab finds it difficult to practice contrary to the apparent meaning of a hadith that he has come across. Technically speaking, all that is required for a person faced by such a situation is that his practice be based upon the ijtihad of a valid mujtahid.
But beyond the technical aspect there is another angle: that of conduct and etiquette. When the situation warrants departure from one’s own maddhab and all the requirements are met, this does not mean that one now has a licence to indulge in disparagement of the imam from whose madhhab one has departed in that one particular issue. Never must sight be lost of the fact that one’s own minuscule smidgen of pseudo-insight is still aeons away from the knowledge possessed by those paragons of scholarship and virtue. No one who is acutely aware of his own deficiencies would ever descend into using disrespectful language against the mujtahid imams of the Ummah.
The true Shafi‘i or Hanafi, therefore, is not only he who is prepared abandon the opinions of Abu Hanifah and al-Shafi‘i when he perceives them to be in apparent contradiction to the hadith. At a deeper level it is he who is able to differ with the position of another without sliding into egotism and disparagement.
[Mln Tauha Karaan]


daralturath.co.za/Site/?page_id=355
report post quote code quick quote reply
+2 -0
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#74 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 04:37
To make it a bot clearer. the following is a translation of most of the passage mentioned from Imam Al-Nawawī in al-Majmū‘, 104:1, put together from various online translations:

It is reported that al-Shafi‘i (Allah have mercy on him) said, “When you find in my book [anything] contrary to the Sunnah of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), then accept the Sunnah of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and leave my opinion.” Moreover, it was reported from him, “When a Sahih hadith is contrary to my opinion, act upon the hadith and leave my opinion,” or he said “then it is my madhhab.” The purport of this has been narrated with different wordings.

Our [Shafi‘i] companions have acted on this in the issue of tathwīb, the condition of being released from ihram due to illness and other [issues] besides these which are known in the books of the madhhab…............ Among those of our Companions who are reported to have passed judgment on the basis of the Hadeeth ( rather then saying of Shafii) are Abu Ya'qoob Al Buweeti and Abul Qasim Ad Dariki. Of our companions from the Muhaditheen, Imam Abu Bakr Al Bayhaqi and others employed this approach. Many of our earliest companions, if they faced an issue for which there was a hadeeth, and the madhab of Shafii was contrary to it, would act according to the Hadeeth and give verdicts based on it saying : " The Madhab of Shafii is whatever agrees with the Hadeeth. "
The meaning of what al-Shafi‘i said is not that everyone who sees an authentic hadith can say, “This is the madhhab of al-Shafi‘i,” and act on its outward [meaning]. This is only for those who have reached the rank of ijtihad in the madhhab, [the description of which has preceded, or close to it]. It is [also] a condition that he predominantly thinks that al-Shafi‘i (Allah have mercy on him) did not come across this hadith or did not know its authenticity. However, this is only [possible] after studying all the books of al-Shafi‘ī, the books of his companions who took from him and what resembles them. This is a difficult condition, and rarely does one acquire this [qualification]. The scholars have placed this condition because al-Shafi‘i (Allah have mercy on him) avoided acting on the outward [meaning] of many narrations which he saw and knew but a proof was erected before him invalidating it or abrogating it or specifying it or interpreting it etc.
Shaykh Abu ‘Amr, i.e. Ibn al-Salāh, says, “Acting on the apparent meaning of what al-Shafi‘i said is not easy, because it is not permissible for every jurist to independently act on what he believes is proof from Hadith. From the Shafi‘is who trod this path in acting on a Hadith, which al-Shafi‘i left deliberately although he knew its authenticity due to an obstacle which he comprehended and was hidden to others, is Abu ‘l-Walīd Mūsā ibn Abi ‘l-Jārūd, a student of al-Shafi‘ī. He said, ‘The Hadith, “The cupper and the cupped have broken the fast,” is authentic, so I say, ‘Al-Shafii‘s opinion is that the cupper and the cupped have broken the fast.’ The scholars did not accept this from Abu ‘l-Walīd because al-Shafi‘i left it, despite knowing its authenticity, because it was abrogated according to him. Al-Shafi‘i clarified its abrogation and adduced proof against it.”…......................... Shaykh Abu ‘Amr [Ibn Al-Salah] said: "Therefore, any Shafi’i that finds a hadith that contradicts his School must examine whether he is absolutely accomplished in all the disciplines of ijtihad, or in that particular topic, or specific question. [If he is,] then he has the right to apply it independently. If he is not, but finds t hat contravening the hadith bears too heavily upon him – after having researched it and found no justification for contravening it – then he may apply it if another independent Imam other than Al-Shafi’i applies it. This is a good reason for him to leave the madhhab of his Imam in such a case.” What he ( Abu 'Amr) has said is correct and established. Allah knows best.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
Offline
Unspecified
1,012
Brother
466
#75 [Permalink] Posted on 25th September 2014 04:51
After listening and reading to Maulana Taha Karan's explanation of "leaving the madhab to follow a hadith", I personally don't see the reason for all the condemnation of salafis regarding this particular topic. I am not saying the salafis are correct in their attitude and in other issues but relating to this particular topic of an individual following a hadith once its from a madhab (as explained by Maulana Taha Karan) then I do not see the what the big fuss is all about IN THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT. Maulana Taha Karan also said in one of his lectures that even though this discussion is from the Shafis, the Hanafis have the same discussion and conclusions from Shah Walilullah Dehlawi
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top

Jump to page: