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When the Hadith is authentic then that is my Madhab

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 5th November 2010 14:22
Muadh_Khan wrote:
Asslamo Allaikum, Our respected brother doesn't seem to be making any coherent points anymore


Unfortunately he has not registered yet and I have not recieved any more comments on my posts.

How ever there is a comment from yesterday on another subject. therefore I have put that comment on the relevant subject.

www.muftisays.com/forums/the-true-salaf-as-saliheen/4959/...

InshaAllah I will try to show where the Salafi resemble the Shia. and there are more comments on Imam Abu Hanifa on Hadith.
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 7th November 2010 23:26
Previously discussed but not fully touched upon

Quote:
Sohael WroteI was going through the website and saw some articles that seemed to stem from a deep disagreement from other points of legitimate Fiqh and ijtihaad.

For example Raf Al Yadayn was one of them where you indicated its abrogation and supported this with proofs, only to be told the truth of the matter in respect of it not being so.
[/quote]
[quote]Sohael WroteBut Raf Al Yadain is also not part of the Hanafi school , yet we see Hanafi Ulama like Shawkani allowing it. We also see illustrious students of Abu Hanifa like Abu Yusuf differing with him on fiqhi matters in aspects that also are not officially recognised by the Hanafi school. This is not something strange.


www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/546_07-11-2010/raful-...
forty-two (42) Sahih evidences for the issue of not raising the hands in the Hanafi Madhhab. This article is a reproduction of an excellent booklet written by Majlis ul-Ulama of South Africa

I admit this is a bit long, but I think it is important that we know that the evidence does exist.

One day, I was having a discussion with a brother and by chance we went onto Raful Yadain. As soon as I mentioned the Hadith of ibn Masud on "Shall I perform Salah". The brother instantly said this was weak, I got so angry but I had to keep my temper down. I even asked him who was weak in the chain of narrations when there were only a few people in the chain. There was no answer except the that the scholars have said that this was weak.

I know where this sort of stuff comes from so I thought this would be very useful for those who follow the Hanafi School. This is not to go against the Shafi'ee school as all 4 schools are respected equaly.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2010 12:00

Asslamo Allaikum,

Who is the Hanafi Alim called "Shawkani"?

 

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2010 15:00

Asslamo Allaikum All,

 

Misdirection number 1:


In an earlier post Br Sohael agrees to drop Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) but then brings in a quote from him declaring the Hadeeth to be baseless without providing a reference. The words are exactly that of Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) as I have provided the reference etc.


Misdirection number 2:


Br Sohael claims Shawkani (RA) to a Hanafi Alim VERSUS Muhammad ash-Shawkani (1759–1834 CE) was a Zaidi Rafidhi (Shia) who was later guided by Allah (SWT) to Sunnah but he became a fierce critic of Taqleed and in the Ahl-e-Hadeeth Darul-ulooms on India/Pakistan his book “Nailul-Awtaar” is taught and propagated with great enthusiasm.

What Shaykh Shawkani (RA) wrote in “Nailul-Awtaar” isn't Hanafi Madhab in fact he isn't an Authority on any "Madhab", rather he is fiercly Anti-Madhab. There are two notable Scholars in the history of Islam who are fiercly "Anti-Taqleed" and they are Shaykh Ibn Hazm (RA) & Shaykh Shawkani (RA).


There has NOT BEEN ANY Hanafi Alim called Shawkani (RA) of any great standing or repute in the history of Islamic Scholarship.
 

Therefore I request the brother to quote correctly and carefully

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2010 20:49
Jazakallah for the above, this name of Shawkani always pops up in discussions. AlHumdulillah, this gives me something to stand on.

So brother Sohael, back to my original question.
(although brother Muadh has asked a couple of questions too)
Can you name me any thing in the Hanafi fiqh that goes against Quran and Sunnah?

This time not using any form of accusations or slander that has been used by those who promote the Ghair Muqallid way or those who are not from Ahle Sunnah wal Jama'ah (same thing to a certain extent).

From my very short experiance in discussions with those who criticise Imam Abu Hanifa, they always bring up the name Shawkani, SubhanAllah what a way to mislead gullible Muslims.

It makes you wonder where they get their information from, who are their sources. (The Yahud, The Shia, WHO?) They are obviously misguiding even those who rely want to be on the right path, but are lied to inorder for them to convert to Salafi'ism.

Allah protect us from this fitna, filth, misguidance, going astray, backbitting, slander, and Evil of lying and misleading.

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 8th November 2010 20:54
I've learnt so much here! Jazakumullah
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 11:07

Asslamo Allaikum,

The name of Shaykh Shawkani (RA) pops out amongst Ahl-e-Hadeeth because they are taught his books in “their Darul-ulooms” but this is the first time I have heard of someone passing Shaykh Shawkani (RA) as a “Hanafi”.

The whole “ditching Madhab” movement started with Dawud ibn Khalaf (d. 270/883),also known as Daud al-Zahiri who “tried to found” a Madhab based on literal interpretation of Qur’aan & Hadeeth.

The Dhahiri Madhab died out and never gained popularity in the Ummah.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahiri


There were some Scholars who adhered to this School but nothing major UNTIL IN EUROPE (A-Andalus)a Scholar by the name of Shaykh Ibn Hazm (7 November 994–15 August 1064) revived the methodology of ditching Madhabs and literal interpretation of Qur’aan & Sunnah.


And the School gained some popularity in the progress winds of Europe but didn’t gain much footing in the rest of Islamic world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm


Shaykh  Ibn Hazm (RA) fell in love with a girl of his country (Al-Andalus) but they never got to get married and it’s a very tragic story. Shaykh  Ibn Hazm (RA) wrote a brilliant book on “Love & Islamic Shariah”. To this day this book remains one of the foremost publications on the topic of love:


http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/hazm/dove/index.html


Shaykh  Ibn Hazm (RA) was a genius and very knowledgeable but he tried to rewrite Fiqh rulings “independent of Madhabs” and created a masterpiece known as “Al Kitab al-Muhallā bi'l Athār”. No doubt that his genius shines through the book but he is fiercely Anti-Tassawuff and Anti-Madhab. In addition to good information this book also has absurdities such as Shaykh  Ibn Hazm (RA) believed that when Ramadhan is 30 days, Laylatul-Qad’r can fall on 22,24,26,28 & 30 while the rest of the Muslim Ummah believe that Laylatul-Qad’r is on odd nights!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muhalla


Some say that the misbalanced writings from this “genius” resulted from his bad love life and that he never married as he is extremely harsh in Hadeeth gradation and Madhabs etc, goes overboard.


Then centuries later we had another genius by the name of Muhammad ash-Shawkani (1759–1834 CE ) who was a Zaidi Shia but became Sunni and again tried to rewrite Fiqh rulings “independent of Madhabs” and created a masterpiece known as “Nayl al-Awtar”.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ash-Shawkani


But he was also extremely harsh in Hadeeth gradation and Madhabs etc, goes overboard.
In Indian sub-continent a man by the name of Muhammad Siddiq Hasan Khan, Nawab of Bhopal (1832-1890) was born into a bitterly Shia family. This kid was also a genius and began independent study and in his teenage days gave up Shia’ism and became Sunni. Since he came from a very high class educated family he took upon himself to write a book to prove that Sunni Islam is correct and wrote a Master-Piece in refutation of Shia’ism. His intention was to prove to his family that he deeply studied both Shiah & Sunni Islam and found Sunni Islam to be most Authentic.


His book “Tuhfa Ithna Ashariyya (A  gift to twelve Shias)” is a masterpiece in Shia refutation and shook the very foundations of Shia’ism in Indian subcontinent. Unfortunately he then applied his independent mind to Islam and ended up becoming “Ahl-e-Hadeeth” and he is regarded as the founder of “Ahl-e-Hadeeth” in India.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/works-Muhammad-Siddiq-Hasan-Bhopal/dp/B0000E7Y28


When Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahab (RA) starts Dawah in Saudi Arabic the Ahl-e-Hadeeth got a free ride on the bandwagon but there is a key difference between Saudi Scholars and Ahl-e-Hadeeth which is that from the time of Shaykhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (RA) until now Saudi Scholars are neither “Anti-Madhab” nor “Anti-Taqleed”  while Ahl-e-Hadeeth are both.
Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA) & Shaykh Uthaymeen (RA) were also neither “Anti-Madhab” nor “Anti-Taqleed” with the later being more Madhab inclined then the former. The current Scholars in Saudia are also neither “Anti-Madhab” nor “Anti-Taqleed”. The following advice of Shaykh Uthaymeen (RA) is clear for everyone to check:

http://ibnfarooq.com/seekingKnowledgeUthaymeen.html

 

Anyone who calls for ditching of the Madhabs and bases this opinion on Saudi Scholars is frankly a MORON!


www.ibnfarooq.com/seekingKnowledgeUthaymeen.htmlShaykh Al-Albani (RA) on the other hand and his students are Anti-Madhab and that’s why the Ahl-e-Hadeeth lean towards Shaykh Al-Albani (RA).


Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) on the other hand was the son of an Albanian Hanafi Scholar and it is possible that the excesses of his father turned him “Anti-Hanafi”. Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) also tried to tried to rewrite Fiqh rulings “independent of Madhabs”but his works were not completed.


In short, it is wrong to put Saudi Scholars and Ahl-e-Hadeeth in the same bracket as overwhelming majority of Saudi Scholars were and are “Hanbali in Madhab”. To further prove this point of difference further Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) wrote his famous Salah book which is refuted by many Hanafees.

A refutation of this very book was written by Sheikh Hamoud At-Tuwaijri (RA) who a student of Shaykh Ibn Baz (RA)...If Salafees and Ahl-e-Hadeeth were the same why did the Saudi Scholars had the need to refute Shaykh Al-Albani (RA)?

Saudi Scholars have also refuted Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) on Niqab, on Tashahuud and other matters.

So what is the primary difference between Saudi Scholars & Deobandees? Saudi Scholars don’t obligate a person to follow 1 Madhab rather they advice students to refer to a Scholar and thus the one asking a question will follow the Madhab of the Mufti (which is Hanbali, in case of Saudia).

The deobandi Scholars obligate a person to follow 1 Madhab and the laymen and Mufti is both obliged to do so.There are some amongst Deobandees who have an opinion similar to Saudi Scholars but the end result of both approaches is pretty similar.

  1. I can choose to find a ruling in the Hanafi Madhab directly
  2. I can choose to ask Maulana Yasin (HA) and thereby get a ruling (from Hanafi Madhab) and thus follow Madhab of Maulana Yasin (HA)

They both end up being the same thing practically therefore most people who follow Saudi Scholars are indeed following the Hanbali Madhab (indirectly).

The Ahl-e-Hadeeth ditch Madhabs all together.


Allah (SWT) knows best.
 

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 11:18
Excellent.
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 12:18

"abu mohammed" wrote:
Excellent.

:- ) Majority of the problems in the world are due to women : - )

Who knows...If Shaykh Ibn Hazm (RA) would have have married that woman you wouldn't be refuting anyone today :- ) : - ) : - )

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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 13:04
We could move this thread to the light side. brilliant
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 13:11
abu mohammed wrote:
Excellent.


yes a lot of useful info....not so in the last of brother muadh's post though!
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 15:41
ummi taalib wrote:
abu mohammed wrote:
Excellent.


yes a lot of useful info....not so in the last of brother muadh's post though!


A very "sarcy" comment from the excellent bro, but it is amazingly true and scary.

We lost Spain because of the same reason.
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 17:18
Spain? Please do elaborate. Though u may need to start another topic on that.
I am learning much & I appreciate it.

Just to request again, I would be entirely grateful if you did go into the history of Spain.
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 9th November 2010 19:22
queenie wrote:
Spain? Please do elaborate. Though u may need to start another topic on that.
I am learning much & I appreciate it.

Just to request again, I would be entirely grateful if you did go into the history of Spain.


Brother Muadh mentioned Andalus and a woman, this bought back memories of a talk I heard about 15 years ago called "The fall of Spain", InshaAllah I will get back on it and post a whole new thread. OR may be someone else can start it and we can add to it InshaAllah. (hint to all members)

I need to dig deep and look into my memory, at this moment in time all I can say is that Spain was taken with the Aid of a 17 year old Ameer who went to with one aim. He had ordered his army to burn all the boats they had travelled in ad said we either rule or we die and get buried here. (I think it was here in Spain) and we ruled for many years but in the end we became weak and lost Spain over a fight for the lust of a woman.
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 10th November 2010 11:25
abu mohammed wrote:
queenie wrote:
Spain? Please do elaborate. Though u may need to start another topic on that.
I am learning much & I appreciate it.

Just to request again, I would be entirely grateful if you did go into the history of Spain.


Brother Muadh mentioned Andalus and a woman, this bought back memories of a talk I heard about 15 years ago called "The fall of Spain", InshaAllah I will get back on it and post a whole new thread. OR may be someone else can start it and we can add to it InshaAllah. (hint to all members)

I need to dig deep and look into my memory, at this moment in time all I can say is that Spain was taken with the Aid of a 17 year old Ameer who went to with one aim. He had ordered his army to burn all the boats they had travelled in ad said we either rule or we die and get buried here. (I think it was here in Spain) and we ruled for many years but in the end we became weak and lost Spain over a fight for the lust of a woman.


The talk I heard was by Saeed Ali called The Fall of Spain. It is a very strong talk and a bit on the contraversial side, although its true. (Contains many views of Takfeer. Many people are named and shamed and takfeer is made upon them)

If you download the talk, you can hear the comments regarding the link with woman and the fall of Spain (Ok its not all their fault) at 55 minutes for 5 minutes.

www.kalamullah.com/spain.html
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