sweetmuslimahk1, member2, queenie, Seifeddine-M, abu mohammed, Yasin, Taalibah, Maria al-Qibtiyya, the fake shaykh, dr76 4 guests appreciate this topic.
sohael wrote on 02/11/2010: btw - i do not necessarily agree with the criticisms of Abu Haniah رضي الله عنه regarding hadith as metioned by some- just wanted to point out that these issues whether true or false do exist-
for example Nasa'i included Abu Hanifa in his book al-Du`afa' wa al-matrukin (p. 233 #614) where he said: Nu`man ibn Thabit Abu Hanifa, laysa bi al-qawi fi al-hadith, kufi "He is not strong in hadith."
Ibn Hibban's outlandish declaration in his Kitab al-majruhin (3:63-64) that Abu Hanifa is not to be relied upon because "he was a Murji' and an innovator."
According to Imam Muslim , Abu Hanifah and other proponents relate that Jibril asked the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم "What are the rites (shara'i) of Islam" rather than "What is Islam?"
Abu Dawood seems to disagree with Muslim that Abu Hanifa changed the wording of hadith here.
Imam Muslim is alos reported to have said In al-asma wa al-kina i "mudhtaribul hadith 'ala qillati riwayatihi" (confusing texts despite the small number of texts he narrated
It would be eye opening if muftisays would point out criticisms and then refute them aswell- i checked the link you pasted-JazaakhAllah it was very nice
Give me the chance to reply to your comments, I am at work working. It is obvious your source of information is flawed. I hope its not Shaykh Albani. The comments are shameful, I beleive that these are not attributed to the people named, SubhanAllah.
sohael wrote on 02/11/2010: no problem akhee- i understand that you may be busy at work
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I think we should not rely on what Shaykh Albani said, rather we should go to the references themselves.
also I have not met many people who do not rigidly stick to one madhab rejecting scholars be they classical or contemporary.
For example if you look at who some call the 'salafis' , it is clear that the majority if not all of their fiqh falls within the four madhabs.
You will find that where they disagree with the opinion of a particular madhab on an issue, then that disagreement has plenty of scholarly backing and evidence behind it. Aside from the laws on talaq(which i dont think aevry salafi adheres to Ibn Taymiyyah on) there is not really much that I can see.
Even Ibn Taymiyyah himself said that it is rare to find the truth outside of the four madhahib.
The point is that every scholar can be right or wrong. We follow him in what is right and where other scholars do not agree with a particular ruling of his, we need to delve further if we are capable
Looks like the 20th century has given birth to some new Fuqaha who will now disect the four schools of fiqh and create fitna amongst the Ummah and cause even more confusion.
People will start to pick and choose what they believe what is strongest and follow their own desires to shirk.
Leaving out Shaykh Albani is cool by me. I hope you are not reading from english works translated by Mohsin Khan or some other person from his school. No doubt, they have done good with giving the Ummah translated work, but to hide some if it is to create fitna.
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010: i agree with you that we have funny and so called 'scholars' of the 2oth century brother-particularly those liars associated with the modern day Saudi salafi cult, however this does not negate the fact that mujaddideen will always come at the head of every 100 years as indicated inthe hadith.
I dont think following the strongest opinion based upon ijma is following desires-rather ijmaa is evidence and following it means following the evidence. The opposite of this where we choose the opinion of one scholar over ijmaa is closer to following desires in this case-wouldnt you agree?
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010: I think that ulama criticising what they felt was wrong with each others opinion was around since the time of the four imams-looking at the criticisms is evidence of that-
Sohael wrote on 02/11/2010: As far as i know the only translation of any thing i have seen by MohsinKhan is the english transalationof the Qur'aan lol!
sohael wrote on 02/11/2010:
btw - i do not necessarily agree with the criticisms of Abu Haniah رضي الله عنه regarding hadith as metioned by some- just wanted to point out that these issues whether true or false do exist-
for example Nasa'i included Abu Hanifa in his book al-Du`afa' wa al-matrukin (p. 233 #614) where he said: Nu`man ibn Thabit Abu Hanifa, laysa bi al-qawi fi al-hadith, kufi "He is not strong in hadith."
Ibn Hibban's outlandish declaration in his Kitab al-majruhin (3:63-64) that Abu Hanifa is not to be relied upon because "he was a Murji' and an innovator."
According to Imam Muslim , Abu Hanifah and other proponents relate that Jibril asked the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم "What are the rites (shara'i) of Islam" rather than "What is Islam?"
Abu Dawood seems to disagree with Muslim that Abu Hanifa changed the wording of hadith here.
Imam Muslim is alos reported to have said In al-asma wa al-kina i "mudhtaribul hadith 'ala qillati riwayatihi" (confusing texts despite the small number of texts he narrated
It would be eye opening if muftisays would point out criticisms and then refute them aswell- i checked the link you pasted-JazaakhAllah it was very nice
The "Salafi's" claim that the grading of Abu Hanifa as weak for his poor memorization "was the position of Muslim (al-Kunaa wal Asmaa) [and] Nasaa'ee (ad-Du'afaa)."
It is correct that Nasa'i included Abu Hanifa in his book al-Du`afa' wa al-matrukin (p. 233 #614) where he said: Nu`man ibn Thabit Abu Hanifa, laysa bi al-qawi fi al-hadith, kufi "He is not strong in hadith." Such a remark does not mean: "He is weak." It only means that Nasa'i found something objectionable in him to deny him the rank of strength, not that he considered him weak as a narrator since one does not have to be strong in hadith in order to be a reliable narrator. Therefore it cannot be claimed that the grading of Abu Hanifa as weak was the position of Nasa'i in his Sunan for such was not his position. If one insists that it was, then Nasa'i would be contradicting it himself since in his Sunan he did narrate hadith from Abu Hanifa, as stated in the latter's entries in al-Mizzi' Tahdhib (10:449), Dhahabi's Tadhkirat al-huffaz and his al-Kashshasf fi ma`rifati man lahu riwayatun fi al-kutub al-sitta (p. 322 #5845), Ibn Hajar's Taqrib (2:248 #7179), and al-Khazraji's Khulasat tadhhib tahdhib al-kamal (3:95 #7526)!
Equally false is the claim that Imam Muslim declared Abu Hanifa weak since all he said in his book al-Kuna wa al-asma' (1:276 #963) is: sahib al-ra'y mudtarib al-hadith laysa lahu kabir hadith sahih. "The scholar of the "school of opinion," his narrations are not firm in their wording and he has not many sound ones." He did not say that he was weak.
sohael wrote on 03/11/2010: bro if the hanafi school did not initially believe that iman is constant and have issues with iman, then why do we have ulama from the past criticising proponents of the school for irjaa?
I would advise you to research the statements of ulama dear brother, IN ARABIC and not based upon transalations of Muhsin Khan etc, since it clear that you do not trust these transalations and that only the original references may bring peace to your heart and a final opinion on such issues- my sincere advice to you my dear brother
Salaam, soryy bruv, being an engineer, i've been on site all day, only just got back. Any way, I gotta get cleaned up and InshaAllah will get back to ASAP.
For now, just 2 things, Prophet Ibrahim (AS) asked Allah to show him how higes life ,so Allah told him to get 4 birds, etc etc, you know the story, Shaykh Awlaki talks about it in the stories of the prophet. Did Ibrahim(AS) not have faith in Alah or did he want to increase his Iman. The other thing, THe Prophet said (not exact words)When a man commits zina, his Iman detaches its self from him whilst he is commiting that sin.
Iman goes up and down.
I dont read Mohsin Khans stuff, its just that I have Bukhari translated by him.
Gotta go, will put this on the forum later. Salaam.
This comment was put on the Blog post of Our Aqeedah.
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mo wrote on 02/11/2010: brother thank you for your answer but im still confused and may allah be pleased with the 4 imams. to me it sounds like they did'nt know everything or have all the answers coz allah said the deen was perfected and i believe it has all the answers so why carnt scholars from all 4 madhabs get together and decide which is correct and which is not. I agree with all 4 imams the deen is perfected no confusion so why carnt scholars of all madhabs get togethr and remove the contradiction
There is no contradiction in the Deen, people are creating conflicts within the Muslims, ( truly sounds like the British of divide and conquer) These are simple differences of the Imams etc. By having the four different schools, then they are altogether following all of the ways of the Prophet. This way every Sunnah is covered through out the world.
The Prophet has told us that the differences are a mercy from Allah, dont we want mercy from Allah all the time, or shall we disregard some of the ways of the Prophet and have only one final way and get rid of this mercy from Allah. Would you like Allah to remove his mercy from you?
Please try to comment on the forum as this way others can also attend to your queries, Jazakallah
Sorry brother, I have been on site all day, (I'm an engineer) couldnt get back to you. Any way the question you are asking is aclassic Salafi question. I can give you full details InshaAllah if needed, for now I will tell you that the Hadith is in Mishkaat al Masabih, (page 559 or 554, I cant remember off the top of my head)
Please try to get onto the forum, you will be answered by others quicker InshaAllah. I will put your questions onto th forum if you say yes.
Sohael wrote on 03/11/2010: lol- i assure you that i am not a Saudi Salafi-May Allah put your heart at rest lol.ameen
Yes brother go ahead and I will also try to get on the forum InshaAllah
ps-Im an aerospace engineer myself -if you could just get me its classification it would be nice- since we have some youngsters who seem to have contention with it and it would be beneficial to expalin to them this hadith from a balanced perspective
I Tought you were "mo", any way Allah is aware of your intention. if it for fitna, confusion, showing off etc, then that is what you shall get. Dont expect anything from Allah. You dont have to be a saudi salafi to be a salafi. they are all in the same boat. with regards to your comment aout the salafis taking from all 4 schools is incorrect, rather they matcup with the shia in a few cases. Nothing personal.
All your questions are answer within the blogs by my self and seifeddine. please read them all before your next qs. you will find that they are there. we are not scholars, we leave the hard work to them and spread the word.
Your answer lies here: Why-The-Differences-With-The-Imams. You can see the forum or my blog
You are wrong about Abdullah ibn Mubarak, the great Mujahid/Faqeh,Muhaddith, you name it, Hanafi.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.
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