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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2022 16:33
Taraweeh 20 not 8!

We have been through many threads and blogs and some of the threads had been moved to the debates sections.

I wish to reproduce much of the evidence here in a very basic, easy to follow manner inshaAllah.

The reason I'm redoing this thread is because I am seeing local Masaajids emptying out after 8 Rakaat's. In a mosque local to me, the Masjid is not even half full and all the other floors, I've been told are more or less empty too. Where have they all gone? Have they resorted to the 8 rakaat racket?

Taraweeh IS NOT 8 rakaat's as claimed by many and the evidence is from their own scholars!
Taraweeh IS 20 rakaat's and will be proven with evidence from their own scholars too!


Everyone tends to refer the same narration as did Dr. Zakir Naik in his Q&A session, in which he incorrectly mandates 8 Rakaat's based on a Sahih Hadith in the wrong context!

Is Taraweeh 8 or 20 Rakats

Dr. I need a 2nd opinion on Taraweeh

Sorry Dr. but I disagree with you!
I Love The Work You Do for Islam and Comparative Religion and I respect that and I Love you for that, but I'm affraid you need a second opinion on this.
Halalified YouTube Audio

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMWEHN8SuCg

Well Dr, in this YouTube talk above, you clearly say that the Hadith is in Bukhari, The book of Tahajjud. Allah knows best if you have quoted the full Hadith or not, but from the Hadith that we all know below, you seem to take bits and pieces from it and clearly say that the Prophet (saw) did this in Ramadhan AND in other months too.

When does any one pray Taraweeh in other months?

This Hadith is clearly for Tahajjud! You also says that he used to offer 4 rakats, since when is taraweeh done in 4's? Another evidence that this Hadith is for Tahajjud.

You speak about the Salafus Saleheen that they offered different numbers of Rakats, but it is well known that the people of Makkah used to perform Tawaf after every 4 rakats as their pause (Tarweeha) and because the people of Madinah were unable to perform Tawaf, they prayed 4 rakats Nafil Salah individualy and not in jamaat, as their pause (Tarweeha), making a total of 36 rakaat's plus the 3 Witr in Madinah, but this act was soon stopped, so this argument can not be used.

Aisha رضى الله عنها also mentions that the Prophet (saw) would wake up to pray! This means that he slept. Again, when does any one sleep before Taraweeh?

Dr. Why quote bits and pieces from the Hadith below, you can put it all together and give the more correct opinion that Sayyidina Umar رضي الله عنه gathered all the Sahaba and appointed Hadhrat Ubbay ibn Ka'ab رضي الله عنه as the Imam and told him to lead every one in one Jamaat in 20 Rakaats.
Quote:
Narrated abu salama bin abdur rahman رضي الله عنه:
I asked Aisha رضى الله عنها about the prayer of Nabi (saw) during the month of Ramadan. She said, “ALLAH’s Messenger (saw) never exceeded 11 Rakats in Ramadan nor in the other months; he used to offer 4 rakats – do not ask me about their beauty and lentgh, then 4 Rakats, do not ask me about their beauty and length, and then 3 Rakat.” Aisha further said , “I said, ‘O Allah’s messenger! Do you sleep before offering Witr salat?’ he replied, ‘O Aisha! My eyes sleep but my heart remains awake!’

(Bukhari, book of Tahajjud prayer, chapter: the Salat (prayer) of the prophet (saw) at night in Ramadan and in other months. 2:248)


(The following are from Islamqa.info and will be reproduced below with the source and additional writings)
Quote:
Shaykul Islam, ibn Taymiyyah (rh) writes that Ubay bin Ka’b رضي الله عنه led the Sahabah رضى الله عنها in twenty rakats taraweeh during the Khilafah of ‘Umar رضي الله عنه. (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah, v.1 p.148). He further writes (v.1 p.191) that because Ubay led the Sahabah رضى الله عنها in twenty rak’ah taraweeh and three rak’ah witr during Ramadan, most ‘Ulema regard this to be a Sunnah because all of the Muhajireen and Ansaar performed the salah without an objection from any of them.


Quote:
ibne Taymiyyah (rh) writes, “this action (i.e. 20 Rakat Tarawih) of Umar رضي الله عنه is Sunnah and we have been ordered by the messenger (saw) to hold fast to the Sunnah of the righteous Khulafa.
(Majmu' Fatawa Li Ibne Taymiyyah, Vol.22 Pg.234 and 276)



Some claim that Taraweeh is the same as Tahajjud, then why are there differences?

Differences between Tahajjud and Taraweeh

1. Tahajjud is mentioned in The Quran: “Stand up at night except a little.” Taraweeh being a Sunnah was established through the hadith of Rasulullah (saw). Rasulullah (saw) said: “I have made its standing Sunnat for you.”
2. Everyone agrees that the number of Rakaats of Tahajjud have been transmitted by Rasulullah (saw), the maximum being 13 including Witr and the minimum being 7 including Witr. However no specific number has been transmitted from Rasulullah (saw) regarding Taraweeh as clearly stated by ibn Taymiyyah. Therefore the Aimma-e-Mujtahideen differ in the number. Some say 20 and some say 36, even more. And we all know why, and that the action of 36 soon stopped.
3. Tahajjud was ordained in Makkah whilst Taraweeh was prescribed in Madina. (In the Final Ramadan of The Prophet (SAW))
4. It is mentioned in the realiable books of the Hanbali Madhab, Muqna: “Taraweeh is 20 Rakaats which a person performs in Ramadan in Jamaat. He will read Witr after it in Jamaat. However if he reads Tahajjud then he will make Witr after it.”
5. Tahajjud is generally performed after sleeping while Taraweeh is performed after Esha.
6. Taraweeh was the name given to the night prayer after Esha in Ramadhan by Ali رضي الله عنه
7. There were a great number of Sahabah رضى الله عنها present at the time (when 'Umar رضي الله عنه instructed Ubay رضي الله عنه to lead them in 20 rak'ah taraweeh). Amongs them were 'Uthman رضي الله عنه, 'Ali رضي الله عنه, Abdullah ibn Mas'ud رضي الله عنه, 'Abbas رضي الله عنه and his son, Talha رضي الله عنه, Zubayr رضي الله عنه, Mu'aadh رضي الله عنه and many other Muhajireen and Ansar. None of them objected to 'Umar رضي الله عنه, but rather supported him and practiced accordingly with steadfastness.
9. When Imam Abu Yusuf (rh) asked Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) whether 'Umar رضي الله عنه had any proof from Rasulallah (saw) to perform 20 rak'ah taraweeh, Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) replied, "'Umar رضي الله عنه was never one who perpetrated acts of bid'ah." (Faydhul Bari, v.2 p.420; Maraaqil Falaah, p.81; Bahrur Raa'iq, v.2 p.66)
10. ibn Taymiyyah (rh) writes that Ubay bin Ka'b رضي الله عنه led the Sahabah رضى الله عنها in twenty rak'ah taraweeh during the Khilafah of 'Umar رضي الله عنه. (Fatawa Ibn Taymiyyah, v.1 p.148). He further writes (v.1 p.191) that because Ubay led the Sahabah رضى الله عنها in twenty rak'ah taraweeh and three rak'ah witr during Ramadan, most 'Ulema regard this to be a Sunnah because all of the Muhajireen and Ansaar performed the salah without an objection from any of them.


The word Taraweeh comes "resting places" or "pauses" between every 2+2 rakaat's.
The salah is called Taraweeh because of the pause for rest after every 4 rakaats - this pause is called tarweeha (singular). Now if only 8 rakaats are prayed and is supposed to be the Sunnah, then there would only be one tarweeha between each 4 rakaats. Therefore it would be illogical to name the salah as "Taraweeh" which is the plural of of tarweeha, if the salah only consisted of just one tarweeha.

For it to be named Taraweeh it would be necessary to have a number of tarweeha, which makes 8 rakaats invalid. So how many breaks or pauses did they take? Let's look at a few narrations!
  • Abul Khaseeb (rh) says, "Suwayd bin Ghafala رضي الله عنه used to lead us in Ramadan with five resting periods and twenty rak'ah." The narration is authentic. (Bayhaqi, v.2 p.496; Aathaarus Sunan, v.2 p.55)
  • Abul Bakhtari (rh) also took five resting periods and performed three rak'ah witr. (Ibn Abi Shaybah, p.406)
  • Abul Hasana (rh) says, "'Ali رضي الله عنه instructed someone to lead us in twenty rak'ah taraweeh with five resting periods. (Sunan Kubra of Bayhaqi, v.2 p.496). This narration is authentic. (See Jawaahirun Naqi, v.1 p.208 and Umdatul Qari, v.11 p.127 for details on authenticity)
  • Sa'eed bin Ubayd (rh) reports that 'Ali bin Rabee'ah (rh) took five resting periods and performed three rak'ah witr during Ramadan. This narration is authentic. (Aathaarus Sunan, v.2 p.56


Sorry Dr Zakir Naik, I cannot accept your version and I think You need a second opinion because everything you say goes against all the Hadith as a whole
Because if we take into consideration of the number of pauses after each 4 rakaat's mentioned above and the Hadith below, it becomes very clear that you are mistaken!
Quote:
Abdullah Ibn Abbas رضي الله عنه reported that: "During Ramadan, the Messenger performed 20 rak'ah salah as well as the witr salah without the congregation."

This hadith has been recorded by the following:

* Ibn Abi Shaybah (rh) in his Musannaf
* Imam Bayhaqi (rh) in his Sunan
* Tabraani (rh) in his Kabeer
* Ibn Adi (rh) in his Musnad
* Baghawi (rh) in his Majma Sahabah


Dr Zakir Naik, if you don't mind, I think this is a much better explanation about the actual Hadith

Youtube Video

You must listen to this talk to find out who says It Is A Sin To Do 8 Rakaat's only for Taraweeh!

Many people are of the opinion that Taraweeh can be 8 and 20 rakaat's so they pray 8 rakaat's and do not deny that 20 is also correct.

However, 8 was never correct in the first place, despite all the evidence they bring forward!

Why do I say 8 was never correct?

Well, Shaykhul Islam ibn Taymiyyah (rh) refuted the first person to claim that Taraweeh was 8 rakaat's and not 20!

You can hear how lies are made up, how something is made THE Sunnah when its not and why it is a SIN to pray only 8 rakaats in the above talk of Shaykh Riyadhul Haq. Also, Taraweeh not being 20 rakaats was a fitna started by a Shia, by the name of al-Hillee (or Hilwee), in his book he wrote that 20 rakats is an innovation of Umarرضي الله عنه. Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah wrote a book refuting every point in this book of al-Hillee. You can hear it yourself in the above talk, go to 42 mins of the talk by Shaykh Riyadhul Haq for proof.

Shaykh Riyadhul Haq also covers the reasons why Imam Malik and the people of Madinah did 36 Rakaat's whilst in Makkah, it was still 20 Rakaat's. In short, The Makkans would perform Tawaf after 2+2 rakaat's as their break/pause/tarweeha and the people of Madinah were not able to perform Tawaf, so after offering 2+2 rakaat's they offered 4 rakaat's of nafl Salah (not in jama'at) as their break/pause/tarweeha, thus completing 36 rakaat's!

Further evidence brought to you from IslamQA.info (A Salafi website)
Quote:
The report that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab ordered that Taraweeh prayer should be twenty rak’ahs came from four of the Taabi’een. These are their reports:

1 – It was narrated that Saa’ib ibn Yazeed said: ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) gathered the people together in Ramadaan to be led by Ubayy ibn Ka’b and Tameem al-Daari in praying twenty-one rak’ahs, and they used to recite hundreds of verses, and they dispersed before dawn broke.

A number of narrators narrated it from al-Saa’ib, some of whom mentioned twenty rak’ahs or twenty-one or twenty-three. They were:

  • Muhammad ibn Yoosuf, the son of the sister of al-Saa’ib, from al-Saa’ib, as was narrated by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf (4/260) from the report of Dawood ibn Qays and others.
  • Yazeed ibn Khusayfah. This was narrated by Ibn al-Majd in al-Musnad (1/413), and via him by al-Bayhaqi in al-Sunan (2/496).
  • Al-Haarith ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Dhubaab. This was narrated by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf (4/261).


These reports are saheeh reports narrated by trustworthy narrators from al-Saa’ib ibn Yazeed. They mention twenty rak’ahs at the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). The extra amount mentioned – twenty-one or twenty-three, refers to Taraweeh plus Witr.

2 – It was narrated that Yazeed ibn Rumaan said: At the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab the people used to pray twenty-three rak’ahs of qiyaam in Ramadaan.

This was narrated from him by Maalik in al-Muwatta’ (1/115). Al-Nawawi said in al-Majmoo’ (4/33): It is mursal, because Yazeed ibn Rumaan did not live at the same time as ‘Umar. End quote.

3 – It was narrated from Yahya ibn Sa’eed al-Qattaan that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) ordered a man to lead them in twenty rak’ahs of prayer. This was narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-Musannaaf (2/163) from Wakee’ from Maalik. But Yahya ibn Sa’eed did not live at the same time as ‘Umar.

4 – It was narrated that ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Rafee’ said: Ubayy ibn Ka’b used to lead the people in praying twenty rak’ahs during Ramadaan in Madeenah, and he would pray Witr with three rak’ahs.

This was narrated by Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-Musannaf (2/163).

From all these reports it is clear that twenty rak’ahs was the way that Taraweeh was usually done at the time of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him). A matter such as Taraweeh prayer is something that is well known among all people, and is transmitted from one generation to another. The report of Yazeed ibn Rumaan and Yahya al-Qattaan is to be taken into account even if they did not live at the same time as ‘Umar, because undoubtedly they learned it from a number of people who had been alive at the time of ‘Umar, and this is something that does not need and isnaad, rather all the people of Madeenah are its isnaad.

Imam al-Tirmidhi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Sunan (3/169):

Most of the scholars are of the view that what is narrated from ‘Umar, ‘Ali and other companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is twenty rak’ahs. This is the view of al-Thawri, Ibn al-Mubaarak and al-Shaafa’i.

Al-Shaafa’i said: This is what I learned in our land, in Makkah they pray twenty rak’ahs.

Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr said in al-Istidhkaar (2/69):

Twenty rak’ahs was narrated from ‘Ali, Shateer ibn Shakl, Ibn Abi Mulaykah, al-Haarith al-Hamadaani and Abu’l-Bakhtari. It is the view of the majority of scholars and it is the view of the Kufis, the Shaafa’is and most of the fuqaha’. It was narrated in saheeh reports from Ubayy ibn Ka’b, and there was no difference of opinion among the Sahaabah. ‘Ata’ said: I grew up at a time when the people prayed twenty-three rak’ahs including Witr.

See that in Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah (2/163).

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (23/112):

It is proven that Ubayy ibn Ka’b used to lead the people in praying twenty rak’ahs in qiyaam in Ramadaan, and he used to pray Witr with three rak’ahs. Many scholars think that this is the Sunnah, because he established that among the Muhaajireen and Ansaar and no one objected to that. Others regarded it as mustahabb to pray thirty-nine rak’ahs, based on the fact that this was the practice of the people of Madeenah in the past. End quote.

There is more to this but it goes off track and I would like to present evidence which explains why I have left it out! Source Islamqa.info

So where did 8 come from? Firstly it was the Shia deception which was refuted by Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah (rh), then it was the work of Shaykh Albani (rh) as can be seen below.

These images have been taken from the two YouTube talks provided below.
This is the manuscript of Original Text and below that, the Missing Text from Shaykh Albani (rh) Book on Taraweeh
Missing Text Highlighted in Yellow


Same Hadith, Same chain, Same wording but Vital Information missing from the Book of Taraweeh by Shaykh Albani (rh)

The ommited part from Shaykh Albani's book is the part where the narrator admits his error and then the narrator, Muhammad ibn Yusuf says, "IN FACT, I SAY, DEFINITELY IT IS 21"

This ommited part gives strength to the those who advocate 8 rakaat's to also be part of the Sunnah of Taraweeh and it can be seen that this was never the case!

You can see this very simple explanation in Urdu (even if you don't understand it, you'll get the idea)

How 20 went to 8 and then corrected back to 20 again.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvz5qnabSEs

Shaykh Albani exposed, deleting valuable text from Hadith!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFJVuiuM3tY

Taraweeh had always been 20 rakaat's until about 200 years ago. So any new ruling or definition brought about and acted upon as part of a school is not the practice of the Sahaba, Tab'i, Tabe Tab'i and so on. Any evidence used for it is most likely based on an incomplete narration or on those narrations about Qiyam ul-Layl.

I hope that is sufficient proof that Taraweeh is 20 Rakaat's only. Not 8!

Please check with the Ulama with the breakdown of the Hadith about 20 vs 8 and how Shaykh Albani removed the text from his book. Until you haven't checked these scholars, you have not done justice to the topic.

Alhumdulillah, there are plenty more threads on the forum where you can find ample evidence as well as all of the above.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2022 11:42
Quote:
Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah wrote a book refuting every point in this book of al-Hillee. You can hear it yourself in the above talk, go to 42 mins of the talk by Shaykh Riyadhul Haq for proof.

I believe this refutation can be found in Minhaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah in which is a response to the book Minhaj al-karama fi ma'rifat al-imama by the Shia theologian Ibn al-Mutahhir al-Hilli, also spelt as Ibn al-Mutahhir al-Hillee.
Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah refuted every point of this Shia cleric and proved that Taraweeh was not an invention of Umar رضي الله عنه and it was not 8 Rakaat's as claimed by the Shia cleric.

Quote:
Jamāl ad-Dīn al-Ḥasan bin Yūsuf bin ʿAli bin al-Muṭahhar al-Ḥillī, commonly known as Allāma Ḥelli, was a Persian Twelver Shia theologian and mujtahid. He was one of the well known Shia scholars of his time.
Born: 15 December 1250, Hillah, Iraq
Died: 18 December 1325, Hillah, Iraq
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 25th April 2022 11:48
ABRIDGED BY SHEIKH ABDULLAH AL-GHUNAIMAN
ebnhussein1424.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/the-path-of-su...
Quote:

SEGMENT

THE RAFIDI CRITCISED UMAR ON MAKING TARAWIH PRAYER CONGREGATIONAL

The Rafidi stated: “The thirteenth perspective: He (Umar) innovated congregational Tarawih prayer, although the Prophet (s.a.w) has said: „O you people! Certainly, night prayer in the month of Ramadan is supererogatory and doing it congregationally is an innovation. And the prayer of Dhuha (supererogatory prayer after Sun rise) is an innovation. Surely performing a little Sunnah is better than much innovation. Listen carefully, surely every innovation is a misguidance, and every misguidance is a path to Hell-Fire.‟ Umar come out during Ramadan and saw lights in the mosque. He asked: „What is that?‟ They said: „Some people have gathered for supererogatory prayer.‟ He commented saying: Good innovation.‟”

We reply that: We have not seen or found among all the sects of innovation and misguidance a sect that is so reckless and bold in telling lies against the Prophet (s.a.w) than Shia Rafidah; they have attributed to him what he never say and they have gone to the extreme in telling lies against him. Some of them did not know the lies of their scholars and this is extremism in ignorance.

A poet says it: “If you did not know, then that is a calamity. And if you know, then the calamity is greater.” We reply to the above from many perspectives:
Firstly: We make requests; what is the proof of the soundness of this hadith? Where is its chain of authority? In which book among the books of Muslims is it narrated? Who has said among the scholars that: This is a sound hadith; meaning who has affirmed it among the scholars of hadith?

Secondly: All those who have knowledge of hadith and its sciences knew out of necessity that this hadith is a fabricated lie against the Prophet (s.a.w). Nobody among the Muslims have narrated it in his book; it cannot be found in Sihah books or Masanid or Ma‟ajim etc., and nobody know its chain of authority, neither a sound one nor a weak one. Nay, it is a clear lie.

Thirdly: It is established that people used to pray in the nights of Ramadan during the time of the Prophet (s.a.w) and it is established that he prayed congregational prayers for two or three nights with the Muslims during Ramadan. It come in sound hadiths on the authority of Aisha and other companions that: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) prayed one night in the mosque and people also prayed along with him. He then prayed on the following night and there were many persons. Then on the third or fourth night (many people) gathered there, but the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did not come out to them (for leading the Tarawih prayer). When it was morning he said: I saw what you were doing, but I desisted to come to you (and lead the prayer) for I feared that this prayer might become obligatory for you. (He the narrator) said: It was the month of Ramadan” (Bukhari, Muslim).

Umar called this prayer innovation because he did not arrange it before then and because whatever is done for the first time is linguistically called innovation and that is not innovation in religion. Certainly, innovation in religion is misguidance and that is what is done without any legal proof.

Fourthly: If this is a prohibited bad act Ali would have stopped it when he became the Caliph and he is in Kufa. Since he continued to practice it as practiced by Umar, it is proven that it is a recommended action. Nay, it is reported that Ali said: “May Allah lighten the grave of Umar as he has lighten for us our mosques.”
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