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The Meccan Rebellion: The Story of Juhayman al-'Utaybi Revisited

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abu mohammed, Taalibah
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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 24th December 2019 11:36

abu mohammed wrote:
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ok.

There is direct testimony of Pakistan Army officer who was involved in this operation on the Internet but since this has never been unclassified, I am unable to provide official accounts.

The only dispute is whether it was Parvaiz Musharraf who commanded it or not.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 25th December 2019 15:13
Question: What is the similarity between Santa Claus and Musharraf conducting SSG?
Answer: They are both HOAX!





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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 25th December 2019 16:52
Makkah Attack 1979 & Role of Pervez Musharraf کیا پرویز مشرف نے کعبہ کو باغیوں سے آزاد کروایا ؟

youtu.be/yK1_d_RbCd0
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 25th December 2019 17:45
Rajab wrote:
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The video claims the three French men become Muslim.

According to Prince Turki, they only went to Taif and trained the others. Therefore, full video not watched.

Again, only saying that the whole truth is not out there. Hearing it from those who are / were in charge gives credibility to their version.
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 25th December 2019 18:29
This post has been marked as private by the moderators and is only visible to the 2 members involved.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 25th December 2019 19:00
RenderedWhite wrote:
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Regardless of your position, to me you are a Muslim and that is enough for me to know that you are my brother in Islam.

If you are including me in your post, then you are making assumptions.

I'm sure I don't have to share knowledge on assumptions.

I'm an not assisting with Musharraf or anyone else, I have presented information that shows no involvement of Pakistan and involvement of Pakistan and so on.

I'm not taking sides nor bigging up Pakistan or Musharraf.

As far as I'm concerned, he will be dealt with by Allah, regardless of what we know or don't know. That's not my job.

For all we know, this could've been an inside job just to get the vision of the people changed in order to become leaders and make changes in the Islamic world which comes in the form of vision 2030! Who knows?
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 02:39
abu mohammed wrote:
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The message was not directed to you at all. It was more of a general message, but now that I have quoted a member of this forum on the previous post, it should allow who I was more precisely addressing.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 10:36
Did Musharraf claim any such involvement in his autobiography
“In line of fire” ?

Even if he did take part in that operation, would that ‘make up’ for his crimes against the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan, and the Muslims he handed over to America for dollars ?

Those are the things he himself admits in his book.
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 11:25

On the Topic:

www.muftisays.com/forums/75-books/8425-the-meccan-rebelli...

Quote:

There is direct testimony of Pakistan Army officer who was involved in this operation on the Internet but since this has never been unclassified, I am unable to provide official accounts. The only dispute is whether it was Parvaiz Musharraf who commanded it or not.

Off the Topic:

abu mohammed wrote:
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Mufti Saheb is targetting me and no one else on the forum. Rest assured that I try to read everything directed at me and if there is something which needs clarification on my part, I respond. In case of personal attacks, I do respond to defend myself.

If its something which has already been answered (multiple times) I ignore it to not flood the system.

If it's a "rant" its their democratic privilege so let them...

ALIF wrote:
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He has not mentioned it in his book because maybe:

  1. He never did it
  2. It is classified

Either way whether Musharraf was part of the operation or not it makes no difference to his (current) judgement.

You asked sometime ago about targetting of "Sufees" and I talked about their intense hatred and poison. Imagine a person engaged in "Islah" from the best of the elders and that is all they are focused on. After years of involvement, they cannot let go of their hatred and poison SO then we have to think that the system is not working.

I can (Astagfirullah) become apostate and then become Muslim again and these people will forgive me. BUT they will never forgive me for pointing out that "Hazrat worship" is destroying the Ummah. If I was to become Bay't to a "Hazrat" tomorrow and for the rest of my mortal life dissociate myself from the Dunya and remain in Tazkiyah, I will NEVER be forgiven (by them) and such is the poison of hate. A brother one told me that these "Sufees" react to criticism of their "Hazrat" with much more venom then they react to the criticism of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)

3 days ago, they did not even know much about Parvaz Musharraf's book until I told them that he admits handing people to CIA. 3 days later, they are questioning what is classified and what is unclassified based on my own post without reading anything.

  1. Pakistani Army was part of the operation to clear out the Terrorists from Haram
  2. Parvaiz Musharraf was part of the operation to clear out the Terrorists from Haram

2 separate matters and they could be mutually exclusive.

EVEN IF Musharraf was part of the operations, it makes no difference to his current legal predicament and no difference to potential crimes which he could be tried for.

Everyone on this forum (disagreeing with me) knows fully well that my point is that the punishment meted out to Parvaiz Musharraf for treason and violating Article 6 does not (legally) stack up and I fear that it will be overturned.

YET they put Taqwa aside and engage in attacks by twisting clear words deliberately because of their intense (personal) hatred.

And YET you think that Tasawuff (today) does not have a problem? Do you not witness this day in and day out? Is the behaviour of those who confess to be engaged in "Islah" not worrying?

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 12:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Any idea, why the involvement of Pakistan (if any), remains such a closely guarded secret ? We know about ‘french’ involvement, after all...

That is just for academic interest...

I mean, many things happen that are ‘unofficially’ acknowledged but ‘officially’ either denied or ignored, that happens in diplomacy.For example, Pakistan never officially acknowledged its support for Mujahideen against Russia, still everybody knew it. It was an open secret.

The operation in haram shareef was not particularly of a ‘secretive’ type, it did not involve any international repercussions, and it looks very natural that another Muslim country should help out...

Why it remains classified after so many years ?
Why every body is silent about it ? May be Arab pride or some internal politics, presuming Pakistan was indeed involved.

But, i agree, it has got no bearing on the current judgement and Musharraf is a nobody in pakistani politics these days. The army is helping him to save its own institutional honour.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 12:36

ALIF wrote:
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Pakistani Involvement

There is direct testimony of Pakistan Army officer who was involved in this operation on the Internet and publicly available.

SSG Position

Operationally, SSG do not publicise anything apart from actual wars which are still not exact but broad details. Let me know if there are details of any SSG operations issued by them.

Deobandi Position

Once again, people may get upset at me for bringing "Deobandees" into this discussion. The reason is that because "Deobandees" have issued an open challenge here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9bDs4M2OE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK1_d_RbCd0

Both of these videos create an enormous challenge for "Islam" because the "Deobandees" are suggesting that:

  1. Deliberately FAKE and FALSE Shahadahs were given to grant entry into Haram

In the minds of "Deobandees" the testimony of the independent (British Newspaper) may seem credible to attack Pakistani Army and Parvaiz Musharraf but in the process they are willing to absolutely MOCK ISLAM!

They are willing to publicise and look past CLEAR & BLATANT HARAM of Saudi Scholars in order to target Parvaiz Musharraf. 

Strange times, we live in...

 
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 16:45
Read the book "Lal Masjid, ham par kya guzri".

The legal system today is corrupted. If system really wants to punish the tyrant for his atrocities on innocents, one need not follow the procedure.

Kabhi kabhi Tedi ungli se makkhan nikalna hai wala usool follow karna padta hai.

Regarding army taking part in operation, it was their obligation and contract, nothing related to service to haram. Even Western Army would have done that as part of contract.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 16:52

Anonymous wrote:
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Bhai Saheb,

Teethi Ungli say "Ghee", not Makhan!

You can bash me but don't take it out on Urdu :P

I have been saying it for a long time, whether Musharraf took part in the operation OR not it does not matter for legal purposes.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 16:54
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Thank you for correction. But I am happy you got the message.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 26th December 2019 16:57
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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To punish a tyrant, it takes long procedure to punish him, so normally a small and strong deviation can be blown up and the tyrant can be punished.
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