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#661 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 20:48

I am currently doing what Mr.Maripat is asking us to do. I am communicating the point of view of Muslims (or Muslims who think like me) up to my capabilities. I was not responsible for partition and I don't represent the whole population. Neither my forefathers or I have ruled this country. I am doing whatever is in my capacity. I am not an academic so I can't do this work up to Mr. Maripat's level. However, I am a sparrow who is dropping water drops on the fire of Nimrod with full force and passion. My body doesn't allow me to migrate and my circumstances don't allow me to cross the barrier. However, thoughts and feelings are boundary less and I am conveying them to uplift the emotions of Muslims of the whole world.

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#662 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 20:51

I may be senseless but I am not heartless and I am proud of this. I may be a mad man. And my dream may seem to be a foolish one. But from the core of my heart, I firmly believe , more than I believe that I am the son of my mother and father, that Islam will rise soon, no matter what the realists say or think of me.

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#663 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:06

STUPIDITY PERSONIFIED

THERE IS NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY IN THIS WORLD. THERE ARE ONLY SECULAR COUNTRIES. PAKISTAN IS RUN BY SECULARISTS. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF SHARIAH LOVING ISLAM LOVING MOMINEEN. AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY IS ONLY THAT COUNTRY WHICH IS RUN BY THE LAWS OF QURAN AND SUNNAH.

Mr. Jinnah didn't ask me for advice when he was making the moves he made. He also came from India (by the way). And many great ulema supported him.

MY STRATEGY! MY STRATEGY?

MY STRATEGY WAS THROWN AWAY IN THE INDIAN OCEAN WHEN THE FIRST ALIM OF SUBCONTINENT JOINED A DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL PARTY.

GO ask these things from the jamhuri ulema. GO ask these things from JI and JUI. And those who have been favoring democracy and legalizing it.

I am not responsible for the present condition of this ummah and state. People of knowledge and authority are.

I will not be offended if I am banned after this post.

Jazak Allah for your kindness.

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#664 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:15

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As stated by Hazrat sipraomer (Damat Barakatuhum Mudda Fuyuzuhum) 40 minutes ago

Some members need to drink water and cool off.

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#665 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:24

If Mr. Maripat thinks that I have offended him in any way. I seek his forgiveness. I never ever think nationally. Indian Muslims are as dear to me as any other Muslim in the world. I follow the Chishti path, connected to Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi RH and Khuwaja Moinuddin Chishti RH. Both of them are resting in India. How can I offend Indian Muslims?

This is totally absurd. Look I am son of a villager and retired army officer. My statements may seem blunt. I don't know how to talk in an academic (civilized koochi koochi) manner. I am a very very passionate person. Blame my genes for it or any thing else. I am a Sapraa Jatt.

There is a saying about Jatts

"Jithe Jatt aye uthe matt nai jithe matt aye uthe jatt nai"

"Where there is jatt there is no wisdom and where there is wisdom, there is no jatt"

We are here to share ideas and not win debates.

We should not doubt each others intentions. Don't be negative. Be positive. I want all of us to gather in Jannah. What good will I get if I win a debate. Will I get a trophy? Or will I get rich by this?

I apologize to Mr.Muadh Khan also. He is a nice guy. Although he gets angry very quickly. May Allah have mercy on bhabi.

I think silence is better.

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#666 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:26

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To be honest Muad khan,I am still struggling to understand why Pakistan was created ?

The fight for Pakistan was fought by those Muslims who lived in the present day India. The areas now called Pakistan had very little role in it if any.The flag bearers of Pakistan movement were mostly Aligarh inspired young Muslims or those business elites who felt challenged by Hindu hegemony as Hindu,s were more educated and more business minded or those civil servants who thought they could not compete Hindus.

Those common people of Muslim India who so enthusiastically joined Pakistan movement knew or should have known they would be migrating to a new country leaving everything behind,their homes,businesses,lands etc. Granted that no body could guess or predict the severity of the blood bath which occurred as a result of partition but still ‘Pakistan’ meant ‘migration...

The big question is,it was pretty obvious that not ALL Muslims would be able to migrate and the majority of Muslims would still be left back in India,at the mercy of a hostile majority. So even a layman could understand that the creation of Pakistan was NOT a solution to the problems of Indian Muslims. Why then they acted so heedlessly ? I fail to understand it.

The most acceptable solution was the creation of an Indian Union with a confederation of ‘Muslim majority’ units and Hindu majority units that were supposed to be autonomous with defence,finance,foreign affairs etc with the centre. It could have avoided the bitterness created with partition and would have given Muslims the required leverage in the Indian Union for the protection of their rights. With some variation that is what Abul Kalam ra and Hazrat Madani ra were suggesting. It did not happen...

Fine,but then,the rulers did not even apply Islam and sharia in the newly created country as was promised. Those who migrated to Pakistan failed to assimilate in the local cultures of the areas called Pakistan.Undoubtedly the migrants were culturally superior to the locals,more educated with a high degree of sophistication attached to them,they grabed the most lucrative positions in the new set up causing resentment against them in locals. Urdu was made the ‘national’ language which was NOT the language of any nationality in Pakistan ( Arabic could have been the best option)....and most importantly in the absence of Sharia being the law of the land,there was nothing left which could give Pakistan an identity. The culture of Pakhtunkhwa was more that of Afghanistan and Central Asia rather than the subcontinent,the same was the case with Baluchistan. Sindh had its own rich culture. You know the story of Bengal better than me. The only part which truely belonged to subcontinent was Punjab...

A modern nation state is made either on the basis of common history,ancestry,language,economic interests or then a common ideology like faith/ religion. The only common thing between the small nationalities living inside Pakistan was faith..but then a Pukhtun would think :”The faith is common between me and punjabi but there are many more common things between me and Afghan including faith,but also including common history,common language and common ancestry,why then I am a Pakistani and not Afghan ?”

My point is this : “Lack of implementation of sharia negated the NEED for the creation of a new state”...

That is the root cause of all the problems Pakistan faced in future years

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#667 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:40

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Bhabi is a Jatt so she can cope just fine :lol

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Take a look at the state of Indian Muslims and you can see why Pakistan is a blessing for Muslims, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) and others saw no choice.

You can hear the Adhan of Fajar and nobody can ban it.

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#668 [Permalink] Posted on 11th September 2018 21:43

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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WWE WRESTLING?

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#669 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 06:06

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Assign deserving and talenting people to the task and things will start to get better. The issue is we have Hazrat Worshippers being assigned tasks when they don't deserve it.

Great idea. Jazakallah Khairan. I shall work on this direction, Allah SWT willing.

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The oldest son of the leading Shaykhul-Hadeeth in Pakistan is a drug-dealer and he is also on the board of his father's Darul-uloom. He comes to DU stoned and drugged about mid-day spends an hour or so and then leaves.

Everyone knows that he is a drug addict and a drug dealer and YET everybody in the DU still respects him because of Hazrat.

A leading Alim in UK sends dirty text messages to Sisters, one of the brothers even wrote about it on this forum with proof...His father issues all kinds of Bayans about Islaah but does nothing about his own son.

What system can you put in place to mitigate this situation? Nothing!

Astaghfirullah.
This kind of information is most difficult for person like me to deal with. May be it is because of these obnoxious pieces of reality I find it easy to talk about the external factors affecting our Ummah.

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#670 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 06:13

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The problem, akhi, is that we common Muslims expect not only guidance but even leadership from such quarters. As a result this kind of news simply kills our courage, enthusiasm and part of our hopes.

And that pinches.

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#671 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 07:04

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1. Do you believe that the western governments with their Zionist agenda will change their attitude towards the Muslim World if we communicate our point of view?

Yes.

Allow me to explain though I have included my answer in earlier posts and I have to repeat some of the points.

When Edward Said wrote Orientalism you can not believe how swift was the action of the American academia and intellectuals. It is not a joke that the book is included in the syllabi of 900 American universities. In fact I doubt there is any American university that does not ensure it that it is seen as post-colonial in out look. Now that is funny because colonialism was not a sin committed by the Americans! There, Americans', sins are different and colonialism is not one of them - unless you start talking about neo-colonialism and economic colonialism. And that is what I want to talk about.

So what you say does make a difference.

You see I do not have a public profile but sometime I come across such small bits that might have originated in my writing only. In brief people do take notice.

Let me remind again about my dissection of a Pat Condell video on Sunni Forum. It was picked up by one of the most rabid Islamophobic sites.

Now that is not the set of intellectuals who influence the US policy makers. But let us check again. Who are the heroes of that site? Well it includes Richard Dawkins, Steve Pinker, late Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss and the list is longer.

Now do these people affect the US policy? Not directly perhaps but boy do they, in their lives, have influence? The US simply can not think anything that will offend them.

I suppose it is fair to conclude that what we say will not go unnoticed.

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2. We may succeed in convincing "some" people from the public.

I am not sure. Their public and hence our public will simply ignore us of being no consequence for we are not white western academicians. We are people of colour and Muslims to boot. We have no standing in their public.

There academia is a different thing. If we say our view in forceful enough manner it is going to reach them. The trick will be to not go bombastic so as to give them the excuse to go after you. And that is the only risk. In anyway I am not saying that the enterprise is entirely innocuous. remember Dr Zakir Naik did not take any aggressive posture. He simply took the correct stand and he ended up being self-exiled.

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3. Do you believe that the public influences the policies of their governments?

Not at all. They might delude themselves to be a democratic society - by the people, for the people and of the people. In fact public opinion has drives Indian polity more than the US public driving US policies.

There the craft politicians serve the public what is in their, politician and not the public, interest. They do it nicely and get away with it. If all was OK in US you would not get so many utterly stupid presidents there.

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4. Why the US invaded Iraq despite of protests from the American public? Did the public protests change the government's direction?

Have you heard of the neo-cons? Spend some time googling about them. You will be surprised to know the power they wield over US politics. Please do not get distracted by the Dance of Democracy. that is the red herring as far as the US is concerned.

Try to get some accurate assessment of the power that pressure groups wield in the US. that will also give an idea of the power of Israel on US power structure.

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5. Isn't it true that Israel controls USA and she doesn't care about US public opinion. In fact some American visitors and humanitarians in Israel have suffered themselves and the American government didn't and couldn't do anything about it.

All said and done there is a dynamics in the US. The policy makers and academicians and intellectuals are in the loop. Our exercise will have an effect on this segment.

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6. What good will this academic exercise do? Instead of informing the West about our feelings, our academicians must use their intellect to wake up the slumbering youth of this ummah. They must ignite the passion to change for good in the youth of this ummah. They must use their pen to capture their imagination and instill the Islamic dream in it. They must give them examples from distant and recent past and make them believe that "YOU CAN DO IT". The world caliphate is possible. The history of Persian and Roman defeat by the hands of Muslims is repeatable. And for that you only have to do one task. Become Super Muslims instead of being superficial Muslims.

Suppose we manage to fire up and charge up the Muslim youth. What will this youth do? Do we have a blue print?

I shall take this opportunity to talk about late Dr Israr Ahmed - the man I love most after Ali Mian RA in their category. He did the most to clarify the situation before the Muslim youth. (Sadly my own scholars a keep assuring me that our scholars have written books against Dr Israr Ahmed RA.) But what was the weakness in his, Dr Israr Ahmed's, argument?

Answer : He thought he has to explain, clarify and motivate the Muslim youth and as a result an Inqilab, a Revolution will come in the Muslim world. He did his work fantastically. Did it generate an Inqilab, a Revolution? No. Let me guess for future - I do not expect a thing along those lines. Revolutions do not come on their own and revolution is not the Islamic mode of talk - it comes from the communists. The communists had their revolution and that is dead by now. We killed that in Afghanistan - with some US help. We had a faint echo of that in the Arab spring and believe me, thankfully, that is all. Indeed the communists stole our revolution in Egypt.

Q: Does this mean no change can occur? A: No, I do not mean that. This world is a test for us and we better take the test or we shall fail for not trying. Things get done in this world when some one does them. Rasoolallah SAW actually did the work. His was not simply the life of expounding theological theories. He was a man of action.

By the way Rasoolallah SAW always kept his theories, I mean his plans, to himself. He never divulged it. except for the last expedition - the Tabuk. You see when you have a plan and the enemy smells it then he will do all to defeat it.

This finally brings me to the question that am I too not focusing on the same think which went wrong in case of Dr Israr Ahmed - that is theory, academics and intellectual exercise. A: Yes and no. Yes because that is what it is. No because the second part of my strategy is to communicate to our own rulers, democratic or traditional kingdoms, to take up the responsibility of Ummah by uniting with each other. This part has technicalities of its own and for the moment I request to leave that topic alone so that we can implement the first part.

Incidentally there is yet another weak spot in all this line of thinking - eschatological things. I firmly do believe , in spite of the fact that for last 1400 years we have been getting false alarms, that we are very close to Hazrat Mehdi AS. In my way of thinking I shall ignore this angle because we can not be sure about his appearance.

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#672 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 07:26

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Because you are a Pakistani living in a country with 95%+ Muslims and he is an Indian living in a country with close to 80% Non-Muslims, the context of both of you is entirely differently.

Despite their situation there is more Islam in Indian Muslims compared to Pakistan and despite having an indepedent country run by Muslims for 71 years, AIMPLB is still more Islamic compared to constitution of Pakistan so how has your strategy worked?

After 71 years, you have a failed state which is a failure from both Deen and Dunya perspective. If the state of Indian Muslims is bad it is because they are an (oppressed) minority, what is your excuse?

You are just putting the things in perspective but the impression that will go out will be slightly different. That is internet for us!

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lol! What are your comments to do with what I am saying?

As I said he is just giving one additional perspective so please do not make any extension to that.

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Let me remind everybody that we are dealing with very difficult issues. There are issues of the Ummah that we have been ignoring for 500 hundred years. We simply have to realized what went wrong in span and since then it has been on a downward slope. At the moment the things are looking up. Please belive me in spite of the fac that we have seen devastation of Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq, Syria, Libya and partial ones in Egypt and Pakistan and Muslims of India are in an extremely bad shape.

I personally am not participating in theological revival of Islam. I personally feel theologically we are at a pitch that perhaps is at its best after a long time. Of course the sectarian divisions are very irritating but I personally intend to do little on that front at the moment. My main focus is on academic clarification at international level and in India.

So when we are busy in addressing that problem then we are bound to get into each other's hair. that is inevitable. But please do not allow that to p-i-s-s you off with others or worse yourself.

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#673 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 08:23

sipraomer wrote:

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My comments are never against Professor Maripat Sahab or Indian Muslims or any other member. I am totally saying a different thing. Some members need to drink water and cool off.

Secondly, I am not limited to a single country. My belief is that Muslims were born to rule the world. And I am not the cause for the failure of a country. Just chill.

Relax. I understand and in this case that is all that matters.

sipraomer wrote:

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I have a different approach than Mr. Maripat based upon my understanding of things. This doesn't mean that I disrespect his views. And I think difference of opinion doesn't make you an APOSTATE

True.
And here I shall take the opportunity to clarify one point. I invite and request help from my brothers and sisters in this enterprise. At the same time it does not mean that this is the only way in which brothers and sisters can contribute to the work of Allah SWT. But I would certainly like to assert that this angle that I am pursuing should not be ignored. We do so to our own loss. And ignoring the work of Allah SWT is something that we have been doing for far too long and my personal feeling is that some of the calamities on us might be because of that.

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I again ask you to relax. I appreciate your efforts and I am thankful to you and Allah SWT to have opened your heart for it. And from the comment by Khan Sahab that I should think of distributing the work among ourselves already means that he appreciates what you are doing.

sipraomer wrote:

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As I said earlier - relax.

sipraomer wrote:

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STUPIDITY PERSONIFIED

THERE IS NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY IN THIS WORLD. THERE ARE ONLY SECULAR COUNTRIES. PAKISTAN IS RUN BY SECULARISTS. AND THEY ARE NOT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF SHARIAH LOVING ISLAM LOVING MOMINEEN. AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY IS ONLY THAT COUNTRY WHICH IS RUN BY THE LAWS OF QURAN AND SUNNAH.

Mr. Jinnah didn't ask me for advice when he was making the moves he made. He also came from India (by the way). And many great ulema supported him.

MY STRATEGY! MY STRATEGY?

MY STRATEGY WAS THROWN AWAY IN THE INDIAN OCEAN WHEN THE FIRST ALIM OF SUBCONTINENT JOINED A DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL PARTY.

GO ask these things from the jamhuri ulema. GO ask these things from JI and JUI. And those who have been favoring democracy and legalizing it.

I am not responsible for the present condition of this ummah and state. People of knowledge and authority are.

I will not be offended if I am banned after this post.

Jazak Allah for your kindness.

Relax again.

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Muadh is what he is. A Pathan. Aur Pathanon ki aql ghutne mein hoti hai. Shayad tum bhi Pathan ho. It is difficult to change that nature. Should we not thank Allah SWT that Pathans are not complicated people? Boy you have not dealt with the chosen people of different kind - or the people of AMU. You will thank Nakshatras (just kidding) for not sending you to Aligarh.

But let me say the conservative things. No you have not offended me. Khan Sahab is not a bad person - he is there in the field for us and with us. You see we want others to accommodate our weaknesses. I certainly want. And I am afraid I am not the only one to do so. So the beginning has to be that we start accommodating other people's weaknesses. For example Khan Sahab's weaknesses. If he sometimes comes across as abrasive then please pay attention to the following.

Many times I write very short posts. This is to focus on the real issue and cut all the overhead. But to many people it might come across as rude, offensive and abrasive. But that is mostly not my intention. That is what happens on the net. Communication is difficult in real life and on the net it is more difficult.

In the meanwhile Khan Sahab too is requested to take care of the youngsters and increase the amount of tenderness in the posts. That is the part of task we have taken upon ourselves. It is more difficult part of the job. In fact it is in this context that Rasoolallah SAW wa told by Allah SWT that if there was hardness in your heart then they would have simply deserted you. My God! God is talking about Sahaba RA! Clearly we the sinners are even more delicate and sensitive.

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This is totally absurd. Look I am son of a villager and retired army officer. My statements may seem blunt. I don't know how to talk in an academic (civilized koochi koochi) manner. I am a very very passionate person. Blame my genes for it or any thing else. I am a Sapraa Jatt.

OK that is not much different from a Pathan so guys just cool it down. It can be done. It should be done. It has to be done for we got to get back to action.

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There is a saying about Jatts

"Jithe Jatt aye uthe matt nai jithe matt aye uthe jatt nai"

"Where there is jatt there is no wisdom and where there is wisdom, there is no jatt"

We are here to share ideas and not win debates.

Yup.

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We should not doubt each others intentions. Don't be negative. Be positive. I want all of us to gather in Jannah. What good will I get if I win a debate. Will I get a trophy? Or will I get rich by this?

I apologize to Mr.Muadh Khan also. He is a nice guy. Although he gets angry very quickly. May Allah have mercy on bhabi.

Good.

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I think silence is better.

Just cool down the dialogue with Khan Sahab but do not go silent on the issue that we have taken upon ourselves.

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#674 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 08:26

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Pakistan creation is one interesting and very important issue but it should be done, say, in my Comprehensive Pakistan thread.

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#675 [Permalink] Posted on 12th September 2018 09:59

Staretgy?

Growing up in Pakistan, I played Hockey (and occasionally) Cricket and I was actually very good. In our school our coach (Sir Akram) used to make us run like mad for 120 minutes and he used to say that in order to last a game of 70 minutes, you need to be able to sustain fitness for 140 minutes.

Before the game, he used to tell us our positions and what to do and during halftime, we used to get shouted at for leaving gaps and playing out of position etc.

Before the game, each of us knew exactly WHAT we needed to do but when you step onto the field you were playing another team who were also out there to win so tactics went out of the window and mist descended in your brain!

You did things which were not planned, sometimes good, sometimes bad and often ugly. The other team threw all your plans, preparations out of the window. The only thing which lasted was your fitness and preparation and you hoped that you practised so so much that subconsciously you will not make mistakes.

The other team is there to win, they are not there to help you win.

When plating Cicket, you cam bowl in the nets a thousand times but in match conditions the batsmen will advance, retreat, take a leg stump guard, off stump guard, middle stump guard etc and it takes serious practise and discipline to bowl like you practised in the nets.

My point is that during match conditions and competition and under pressure, you need to hope and pray that you have practised that one shot again and again and again and you can do it blindly, subconsciously and under pressure.

My problem with Pakistan!

I was born in Pakistan, raised in Pakistan, went to school and college in Pakistan. My problem with majority of Pakistanees is that they are pretty good at blame game:

RAW is making things happen
CIA is making things happen
Mossad is making things happen
Zionists and all 3 of the above are targeting Pakistan

All of this may or may not be true. Assuming that it is valid and true, WHY DON’T people of Pakistan ever look inwards and understand that when you are competing the other side is not there to help you win. YOU NEED TO WIN!

In order to win, it takes blood, sweat and tears. Majority of Pakistanees are not prepared to work hard at all. Forget about secular institutions, religious intuitions have little timekeeping, discipline, they are rife with nepotism and favouritism.

Did CIA ask a DU to put up with a (Mufti) who is the son of the Shaykhul-Hadeeth who is a drug dealer?
Does CIA ask for most Islamic programs to start late?
Does CIA ask for Darul-ulooms to produce low standard graduates?

Most books, bayans and speeches of Ulama in Pakistan are 90% filled with conspiracy theories and blaming someone else. EVEN IF HARP is causing natural disasters in Pakistan, either DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT or positively act and deal with the aftermath.

You need to play your own game and keep getting better and better. You cannot continuously moan and complain about the opposition, they are not there to help you win, they are there to help you lose!

ENOUGH OF THESE PAKISTANI CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!

Does the CIA hold the hand of Pakistanees and FORCE them to come late to work and not do their job?

My problem with India!

I have never been to India but I deal with Ulama and laymen of India almost on a daily basis. Hazrat worship has ripped soul of Indian Muslims, they are hopeless, rudderless, and directionless. Indian (Islamic) Institutions are worst then Pakistan in any and all imaginable metrics. DU Deoband is surviving on past glory and DOES ABSOLUTELY nothing to provide direction for millions of Muslims in India.

If the purpose of DU Deoband is to provide Academic excellence, it is a disaster and a failure on that front as well. Just because you have thousands of students studying, it is not a sign of excellence. The excellence of an institute is measured by the research and contribution of its graduates in public life. Compare DU Deoband of 1940’s, 50s and 60s to NOW, where is it?

Problem:

The fish rots from the head!

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