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abu mohammed, Desi tadka, Taalibah, Naqshband66, Acacia, member2, Black Turban, Sulaiman84
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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:37
Oops, I didn't read the replies before I jumped in. It seems the conversation shifted to causing harm to others to teach them a lesson. Is that in keeping with the sunnah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wa sallem)?
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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:37

Taalibah wrote:
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Really, when bullies get a taste of their medicine they usually STOP; trust me.

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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:42
With you maybe but if they've got issues that need sorting out, it could be that they take their bullying elsewhere.
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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:45

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Forgiveness isn't an obligation its an option for the oppressed in Islam. In fact the Sunnah and superior option is to STOP the oppressor using all methods at one's disposal, as long as the reprisal is proportional.

 

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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:46
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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:48
Here's another way to think about causing harm in retaliation to personal hurt/harm or to teach a lesson: with the car example, others in their family may rely on the car too so it isn't just the person who inflicted the hurt/harm that suffers... others suffer collaterally, though our intention may never have been to inflict harm on them. A vicious cycle of hurt/harm takes momentum and perhaps one of the affected family members say something hurtful at work or school as a result of feeling negative after having to deal with car 'issues' in the morning... and that person takes those feelings to heart, perhaps they were having a particularly difficult time in all spheres of their life and they lacked a spiritual anchor to help keep them grounded and they take their own life. And... after all that... the person we intended to teach the lesson may not have learned anything and all of this would have been futile.
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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:52

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Car is not used by anyone else in the family but it will cause great inconvenience and headache and lost business. So once we have determined the impact and know that its exclusive to the bully, can we then go ahead?

The Bully can't take financial loses of this nature with regards to his only means of transport. I guess you can say that loss of earnings will hurt the family.

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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 14:55
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Are we not talking about day-to-day hurts and harms we all suffer? Or... is the topic related to more general, deliberate and persistent attacks on Islam and Muslims in the form of war, propaganda and hate crimes?

I think there is a huge distinction there. One is personal on an individual level while the other is personal on a collective level.
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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:01

Acacia wrote:
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This is about someone who bullies other Muslims, hurts their feelings, causes discord and harm, sows seeds of suspicion between husband and wife, mocks people for their poverty and lack of status in Dunya. They have continued their behavior for a long time and no chance of changing.

Should they be taught a lesson and kick'em where it hurts?

Situation doesn't concern me or my family at all.

I am just talking "randomly".

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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:03


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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:15
I don't know... it just sounds like a person who has a heavy dose of everything nasty that I'm sure many of us have to some degree, at least some of the things that are listed if not others. We're all going to get kicked eventually... may Allah Ta'aala forgive us and soften the hearts of those who we've caused harm to so that they too can find it in their hearts to forgive us.

I think we should always strive and struggle to treat others with fairness, justice, kindness, and humility, and to seek such treatment for others as well as ourselves. There are ways to go about doing this without resorting to hurting and harming the person.

This is life, these are our struggles, our trials and tribulations... we're in a test in that sense too and so we really have to tread carefully and think about the long-term consequences of our actions. Easier said than done... a constant struggle for sure.
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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:28

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Let me put the situation another way.

I have a very good friend who visits nasty rightwing Christian fundamentalist forums and debates with them. They accused Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) of ordering assassinations and the rest of the Muslims on the forum tried to deny it.

He went it and admitted it (it’s a fact anyways) and postulated that by ordering assassination Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) prevented harm which would have fell on innocent civilians in an open battle. He gave the example of Americans dropping Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to prevent the prolonging of WII and further bloodshed; crude example but it struck a chord in most Americans.

So shouldn’t this bully be prevented from causing further harm and if he can’t be prevented left in no state to do harm?

 

 

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#118 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:36
Insha'Allah whoever it is that is affected by this will pause to think some more before they act, look for more solutions and really check their intentions before they set out to do whatever it is they feel is necessary.

From personal experience, I know that even when you think you've exhausted an issue - thinking about if from this angle and that, if you persist and are patient eventually more is revealed alhamdulillah and if you strive to do right with the right intentions, then insha'Allah eventually it all works out.

It definitely does sound like an issue worth doing some further mushwara on - with people more familiar with the circumstances.
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#119 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 15:37
My turn to throw a can!

On the topic of fez... The red fez lives on in places like Egypt as well. But also, sadly, on the heads of many freemasons.
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#120 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd October 2013 16:42
In the case of someone causing harm to various people within a community, the community (not just an individual) should stand up and tell the person to stop.

I think some issues are meant to be dealt with at a community level but we've relegated everything to the 'private' sphere and don't want to meddle with personal affairs and the public arena is dictated by laws, rules and regulations that may or may not be conducive to effective and efficient collective action. In any event, communities need to step up, learn to operate within the laws of the countries they find themselves in, and grow stronger insha'Allah.
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