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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 10:25
samah wrote:
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Jzk, I'm aware of this Hadith. The reliable questioner said he was unable to find the Hadith on the same source you've quoted.

Not just, that. He hasn't found it in any Arabic or English Hadith reference sites.

Also the Hadith topics quoted would be found under fasting and not hajj.

Baffled :(
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 16:50
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I don't understand your question. Yes, I was not able to find the ḥadīth with the exact wordings "الحج ما يحج الناس" either in any primary source; I only found some Arab scholars quoting it with such wordings but without reference. However, it is assumed that they narrated it by meaning and not intending to quote the exact words. The particular ḥadīth that they all seem to be referring to seems to be the one I posted in the previous post. It is pretty much of the same meaning, since it talks about beginning fasting (Ramaḍān), ending fasting (ʿĪd al-Fiṭr), and the sacrifice (ʿĪd al-Aḍḥā), which automatically includes ḥajj. It's also present in the Jāmiʿ of Imām al-Tirmidhī (رحمه الله), so I don't see what the big deal or confusion is since it's now quite clear which ḥadīth Muftī Ṣāḥib was referring to.
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 17:20
samah wrote:
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Jzk, I understand your point and the Hadith clearly. My/our question is that the Hadith narrated in the lecture is allegedly from "The book of hajj" of Tirmidhi Shareef.

Also that the verse quoted from the Quran mentions precision together with hajj!

I'm just saying, I'm not that intellectual to question anything. As I said, this has been brought up by a professional in the field. Who by the way is also attempting to contact Mufti E Desai for clarification.

The understanding is that this Hadith may have been narrated with the word "Hajj" using scholarly ijtehad. Allah knows best. But if so, why the book of hajj and boot the bin of fasting?
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 17:48
Asaaghir wrote:
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It was probably just a mistake. It's not something to be so "baffled" about. He quoted a ḥadīth while being asked on the spot; it's not like he had time to conduct complete research on the exact wording of the ḥadīth. He just quoted from memory and exercised caution by saying "reported to have said".

As for determining whether a ḥadīth or ruling contradicts the Qurʾān, that is the job of a faqīh, not a layman. If you're saying that an ʿālim is seeking clarification from Muftī Ṣāḥib, then fine. Let them discuss whatever needs to be discussed. Laymen (who usually have no idea what they're talking about) discussing so-called "errors" of ʿulamāʾ on forums or social media is quite futile and will not solve anything. For some reason, unfortunately, this is a common theme here. It's like patients discussing among themselves what they perceive to be the mistakes of their doctors.
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 18:36
Understood, acknowledged and appreciated.

Will wait for the expert in the field of moonsighting, astronomy, science and so on and the response from Mufti sahib.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2017 20:17
Asaaghir wrote:
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Forgive me if I came across as harsh.
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 25th October 2017 01:51
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It's like patients discussing among themselves what they perceive to be the mistakes of their doctors.

I always see people comparing blindly following ulama to blindly following doctors.
People assume that we just have to shut up and trust professionals. Yes we follow professionals and those qualified in specific fields, but that does not mean we have to blindly follow them, and that we cannot question them or that they are free from error.

From personal experience, qualified doctors also have many differences of opinions in certain diagnosis and best medications to prescribe, and they also make mistakes, some of which can be pretty serious. I know of cases where doctors attributed symptoms of cancer to other minor diseases.

People are different. Some people are satisfied with one opinion and can't be bothered to find out any further information, while some people will question and learn about topics they are interested in or that are important to them
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 25th October 2017 12:43

samah wrote:
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Let us side-step all other discussions about authenticity, context and take this Hadeeth on face value.

Doesn’t it demolish the entire concept of Ruyah (sighting) in Islam. In 2017, all we have to do is wait for some sighting somewhere (first) and the whole world merely follows that sighting? For example Malaysia/Indonesia sight and California 12+ hours earlier simply announces start (or end of) Ramadhan. Does your mind accept the implication and applicability of this Hadeeth? Why bother with the sighting of the Moon, then?

Next, why is it that for the past 40 years Saudi Arabic has consistently sighted the Moon (more often than not) before anyone else on Planet Earth? Before the changing of rules, it was consistent and every time. Does your mind accept that a single location on Earth can consistently sight the moon for 40 years before anybody else? Again, take the Hadeeth on face-value and nobody needs to sight the moon, at all.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 25th October 2017 14:42

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Even if you disregard the issue of Hadeeth being quoted in error and you cling to the (supposedly Hanafi) opinion that there is no differences of horizons (i.e. sighting in Jakarta is valid for Rabat thousands of miles away), British Muslims still cannot follow Saudi Arabia for Dhul-Hijjah as the Hanafi Madhab is clear:

www.wifaqululama.co.uk/is-hajj-invalid/

Allamah Shami (RA) [1198–1252] states Local Sighting for Dhul-Hijjah:

Allamah Shami (RA) [1198–1252] explicitly states that global sighting is not applicable for the month of Dhul-Hijjah and there is clear evidence for this in the Hanafi Madhab even if a person follows the opinion of global sighting in the Hanafi Madhab

يُفْهَمُ مِنْ كَلَامِهِمْ فِي كِتَابِ الْحَجِّ أَنَّ اخْتِلَافَ الْمَطَالِعِ فِيهِ مُعْتَبَرٌ فَلَا يَلْزَمُهُمْ شَيْءٌ لَوْ ظَهَرَ أَنَّهُ رُئِيَ فِي بَلْدَةٍ أُخْرَى قَبْلَهُمْ بِيَوْمٍ وَهَلْ يُقَالُ كَذَلِكَ فِي حَقِّ الْأُضْحِيَّةِ لِغَيْرِ الْحُجَّاجِ؟ لَمْ أَرَهُ وَالظَّاهِرُ نَعَمْ؛ لِأَنَّ اخْتِلَافَ الْمَطَالِعِ إنَّمَا لَمْ يُعْتَبَرْ فِي الصَّوْمِ لِتَعَلُّقِهِ بِمُطْلَقِ الرُّؤْيَةِ، وَهَذَا بِخِلَافِ الْأُضْحِيَّةِ فَالظَّاهِرُ أَنَّهَا كَأَوْقَاتِ الصَّلَوَاتِ يَلْزَمُ كُلَّ قَوْمٍ الْعَمَلُ بِمَا عِنْدَهُمْ فَتُجْزِئُ الْأُضْحِيَّةُ فِي الْيَوْمِ الثَّالِثَ عَشَرَ وَإِنْ كَانَ عَلَى رُؤْيَا غَيْرِهِمْ هُوَ الرَّابِعَ عَشَرَ وَاَللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ

…It is understood from their words in kitab ul-hajj (chapter of hajj) that difference of place in respect of the moon’s rising (ikhtilaaf ul-mataali’) is taken into considerstion (for thu l-hijjah). Therefore, they will not be liable of (any missed acts of worship) if it becomes evident that it (the crescent) was sighted in another country a day before them. Can the same be said for the Qurbani of non-pilgrims? Although I have not seen this (issue in books), the plausible (answer) is, yes! Because ikhtilaaf ul-mataali’ is given no consideration in respect of fasting, as fasting is dependant on absolute/sheer/… sighting, while Qurbani is similar to the times of prayers; each group (of people) is tasked with performing it according to their circumstances. As such, Qurbani on the 13th day (of thu l-hijjah) is valid, although it maybe the 14 day according to the sighting of others. Allah knows best.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd November 2017 11:05
Asaaghir wrote:
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Q: Is the following statement mentioned in any of the Hadith books, what is the reference and is it a sahih hadith? Al-Hajju maa YuHujjun-naas"; Translation: "Hajj is on that day when all the people perform Hajj

A: We have not come across this, but the meaning of these words is correct.

And Allah Ta'ala (الله تعالى) knows best.

Answered by:

Mufti Ebrahim Salejee (Isipingo Beach)
muftionline.co.za/node/22946
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