You Have to Read 8 Rakats - Mufti AbdurRahman ibn Yusuf

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 18:34

I did not watch the videos. I quoted the Maliki view from 2 scholars , so unless another Maliki refutes that view and considers it a misrepresentation of the Maliki madhab , or a view that does not exist in the maliki madhab, then I don't see why I should change my point of view.

Then we still have the statements of the shafi scholars to consider, and this would have to be dealt with by a shafi.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 19:35

That's not what I expected to read.

Until you don't watch the videos, anyone of them, which provide the "nail in the coffin", yours and those opinions kind of remain null and void.

Shaykh Riyadhul Haq presents all the opinions and reasons and it is clear that from the very beginning, it always was 20. Where this Shia and Salafi opinion comes from is also made clear. The last video's posted is basically a summary of the Hadith!

Where 8 comes from can be thrown out of the window basically!

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 19:37

Please let us know in detail with historical background from the life of Prophet Salallaho-alaihi-wasallam, Sahaba and aur Bujurgaan-e-deen

Answer
RAMADHAAN
Until approximately two centuries ago there were no two answers to this question. Every person until this time unanimously agreed that it is TWENTY Rakaats.

Around the twelfth century a group calling itself the Ahle Hadith emerged and began propagating the fallacy that Taraweeh is only eight Rakaats.
Recently, a small group in our country, in order to cast aside the following one of the four Madhabs, have begun blindly following the so called Ahle Hadith. Hence not only do they deprive themselves from the rewards of the entire twenty Rakaats, they also mislead other simpleminded
people who are unaware of the facts and deprive them as well.

At the same time those of weak Imaan who find the twenty Rakaats difficult due to their laziness and lack of realisation of the tremendous rewards of Taraweeh, have found a scapegoat in the baseless propaganda of the Ahle Hadith and its
followers. The reality, however, is that twenty Rakaats of Taraweeh is Sunnatul Mua’kkadah (a greatly stressed Sunnah, deliberate omission of which is a sin).

ALL UNANIMOUS
In the time of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) the Taraweeh Salaat was performed individually and in small groups. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) stressed its performance but did not perform it with the
congregation since he feared that it may then become Fardh (compulsory) upon the Ummah. In one narration, it is nevertheless mentioned that Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) performed twenty Rakaats of Taraweeh and the
Witr in Ramadhaan. (Musannad ibn Abi Shaiba and Bayhaqi). This practice of performing the Taraweeh individually and in small groups continued in the time of Sayyidina Abu Bakr (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) and the initial years of the
Khilafa of Sayyidina Úmar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu). Thereafter Hadhrat Úmar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) appointed Ubayy ibn Kaáb (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) as the Imaam and gathered everybody in one Jama’ah behind him for the full twenty
Rakaats of Taraweeh. At that time there were numerous Sahaabah (Radhiallaahu Ánhum) present. All of them agreed on this decision of Hadhrat Úmar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu). If this decision was contrary to Deen, the Sahaabah
(Radhiallaahu Ánhu) would have never been tolerated it. Their consensus on this manner is itself a Shaée proof of twenty Rakaats being Sunnah. A number of narrations mention the performance of twenty Rakaats by the Sahaaba
(Radhiallaahu Ánhum). Therefore, we find that the four great Imaams of the four Maddhabs, despite a number of minor differences among them on the interpretation and application of various aspects, are unanimous that Taraweeh is twenty Rakaats. This is authentically recorded in their books.

HARAMAYN
The aspect of Taraweeh is really as clear as daylight. Therefore, one will find that in the Haramayn of Makkatul Mukarramah and Madinah Munawwarah up to this day, from the very time of Umar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu), twenty Rakaats is performed in Jamaa. The Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Ánhu), the Taabiéen (those who came after the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Ánhum), the Imaams of Fiqh (jurisprudence) and the entire Ummah, with the exception of the so called Ahle Hadith of recent times, has been unanimous on twenty Rakaats.

YOUR DECISION
Finally, in one Hadith Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said, ‘After me there will be much differences. Hence hold on to my
Sunnah and the Sunnah of my rightly guided Khulafaa’. (Mishkãt). Twenty Rakaats of Taraweeh with Jamaa was the Sunnah of the rightly guided
Khulafaa. In this latter day difference, who will you follow? The Sunnah of the Khulafaa of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) or the way of those
who contradict them??? You make the decision.

and Allah Ta’ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 19:45

Concerned wrote:

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Can your tell me why the Maliki's prayed 36 Raka'h? Maybe that will make it a bit clearer to understand the number for Taraweeh is 20, not 8 or 36!

For those who don't know why 36 were prayed, then they have no reason to argue on the numbers as they would fail.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 21:17

I can listen to the lectures and read all the articles you posted and based on the evidences presented I can come to a conclusion. I can also read all of the evidences presented by the salafis and come to a conclusion based on their evidences. To be fair, I would then have to try to weigh each side and come to a final conclusion, based solely on what I have read and listened to.
But then why don't I do that regarding all of the fiqh issues. But that would be like what the "salafis" do.

Which of the following three points are you making?

1) that the Maliki position as presented by Maliki scholars is incorrect, and that Malikis should abandon their madhab in this issue.

2) the Maliki scholars have not understood their madhab

3) the Maliki position is incorrectly presented.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 21:49

All I am saying is that from what I am seeing, it is not as black and white as people suggest.

Shaykh Isa Johansson, who is a Shafi writes on facebook:
"There are a wide range of opinions on the matter, and not a discussion fit for this forum (but I will upload a recording for our Matn Abi Shuja' class). The reality is that the Prophet (صلى الله تعالى عليه وآله وسلم) is recorded to have prayed 11 and 13 raka'at, but never 20. However, 20 did become established practice during the era of the Sahaba, which shows that there is flexibility, as it is from the general nawafil (qiyam l-layl), which were left open. Hence, 8, 20, 36 etc. were performed, and they were prayed at home or in the masjid, individually or in jama'ah, and all of that has basis. And Allah knows best."

The opinion that the Rasul salalalhu alayhi wasalam did not pray 20 is also mentioned by the other shafi scholar in the link I provided before.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 22:31

You're getting it all wrong.

~~What Shaykh Isa Johansson is saying is based on what he learnt, but when he learnt was wrong and refuted in the video (last video posted) with evidence!~~

You can read all the schools work and their original conclusion was always 20! What came after is not from the original.

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 22:36

Right so then you are saying that the shafis learnt it wrong from their shafi teachers.

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 23:08

~~What I'm saying is that Shaykh Isa Johansson's opinion is based on an "Omission" watch the video.~~

What I'm asking you is to tell me why the maliki say 36 when the opinion is and always will be 20!

I've mentioned the reason why many times before, but I'm asking you if you know why.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 23:18

OK I will watch it soon insha Allah

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 23:20

You're saying that the Prophet didn't pray 20, I'm saying he did and the evidence is there.

(My bad, I thought you wrote that Shaykh Isa Johansson is a Salafi. But I just read again, it says Shafi)

But my question remains about the 36, then we'll move on.

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 03:48

abu mohammed wrote:

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Can you provide the link to the lecture, please?

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 06:21

Bro Abu Muhammad, you have misunderstood the whole issue being discussed. The links I posted show the rulings some shafi ulama and the Maliki ulama derived concerning how many rakats an individual can pray. These rulings are based on all of the evidences, and even if twenty should be established in the masjid or is the official view of the madhabs based on the sunnah of the khulafa, there is flexibility within the madhab regarding how much an individual can pray.

Your video touches on 4 points:

1) It s a sin to pray less than 20. This is obviously not the view of the other 3 madhabs. This is only the Hanafi view, so no need to discus this point.

2) praying more than 8 is not a bida. All the info I posted agree with this point so there is nothing to debate.

3) the sunnah of Umar r.a is 20 rakats. The info I posted does not deny this, so nothing to debate.

4) did the Prophet Salalahu alayhi wasalam pray 8 or 20? Sh Abu Yusuf tries to prove that the prophet salalahu alayhi wasalam prayed 20. Other scholars Who are not salafi differ with him, as mentioned before:

Quote:

There are scholars who inclined to eight [thirteen with witr] being established from the Prophet (upon him be peace). For instance, in Fath al-Qadir, the great Hanafi jurist Ibn al-Humam inclines to the number thirteen being confirmed from the Prophet's practice, but not twenty. He says twenty is from the 'sunnah' of the Khulafa' Rashidun.
The number of eight being confirmed from the Prophet (upon him be peace) has a basis related on the authority of Jabir (radyAllahu 'anhu). Jabir related that the Prophet (upon him be peace) came out and prayed eight rak'ahs and witr along with the Sahabah. Then, the next night, they were waiting for him in the mosque. They waited until morning, and then went and asked what happened. The Prophet (upon him be peace) said that he did not want it to be made obligatory on them. This report, including the mention of eight, is related by Abu Ya'la, Ibn Hibban, Ibn Khuzaymah, Tabarani, Ibn al-Mundhir in his Awsat, and others. From the Shafiyyah, some have strengthened this hadith; it clarifying a specific number: eight. From them is Hafiz Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari 3/12 and Ibn Hajar al-Haytami in his Fatawa 1/195.

So those lectures added nothing to the discussion, which is that the Maliki position and various shafi scholars state that there is flexibility regarding the number of rakats an individual can pray. So based on this, to make it seem that only the salafis recently came up with praying less than 20 is misleading.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 10:26

Link on page one

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2017 10:32

Concerned wrote:

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Jzk for taking the time to listen to the lecture(s)

The point I'm trying to make is that the unanimous decision for all 4 schools is that there is 20 Rakats of Taraweeh from the beginning.

If scholars of later generations came and made additions to the schools and passed other rulings, then that is their choice.

The Ijma for Taraweeh is 20 Rakats to be the Sunnah, no more, no less.

If one wishes to pray 8, he doesn't fulfil the Sunnah of Taraweeh. If one wishes to pray 36, he fulfils the sunnah of Taraweeh and more.

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You Have to Read 8 Rakats - Mufti AbdurRahman ibn Yusuf

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