Split: Discussion...Ahmadiyyah sect... unrelated posts

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:31

ahmadianswers wrote:

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this is probably because you started inviting people to what we believe is a false religion by posting your links in other threads. you have been invited here to debate. not to spread what we believe is falsehood.

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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:32

ahmadianswers wrote:

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Yes I do.
So did the messiah kill dajjal?

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:32

ahmadianswers wrote:

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All new members posts remain in pending until checked and authorized, it's nothing personal, it's how the website is designed. Alhamdulillah

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:33

xs11ax wrote:

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well now you have told me to not spread a website about the true Islam and because its your website ill respect that and not start a topic on it but if i use the website here to answer you guys shouldnt complain and take it off now as ill stop posting...or im out

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:34

Taalibah wrote:

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it wasn't happening before now it is. Your friend said it happened cuz i post websites but i will not as a new topic but here i can post my website with my answers

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:39

ahmadianswers wrote:

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It wasn't happening before because another authorizer was approving your posts,some posts take a little longer than others to authorize depending on when an authorizer is online.

And site admin is correct by stating some posts that advertise links to websites that are against the ethos or belief of MS are declined. JazakAllah

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:40

just a quick question. do you guys believe that anyone who does not accept mirza is not a muslim. or do you still accept them as muslim?

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:41

byellow200 wrote:

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Why are you lying byellow200? Do you not fear Allah? You made an oath and lied this shows you haven't read the works of Ahmad(as):

I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that I am not a disbeliever. My doctrine is that there is no one worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah . I believe concerning him that he was the Messenger of Allah and the Khataman Nabiyyeen. I affirm the truth of this statement with as many oaths as are the Holy names of Allah and as are the letters of the Holy Quran and as is the number of the excellencies of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. No belief of mine is contrary to the commands of Allah and His Messenger. He who imagines anything contrary to this labors under a mis-conception. (Karamatus Sadiqeen, p.25)

Again he has stated:

The person who was above all, and was a perfect man, and a perfect prophet, and who came with the fullness of blessings, through whom, on account of his spiritual advent and the spiritual resurrection that he brought about, the first judgment manifested itself and a whole universe that was dead was revived, that blessed prophet Khatamul Anbiya, Leader of the elect, Katamul Mursileen, Pride of the Prophets was Muhammad Mustafa, peace and the blessings of Allah by upon him. (Itmamul Hujjah, p.28)

He claimed:

Allah is Glorious, Allah is Glorious; what a high station was that of the Khatamul Anbiya, the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Glory be to Allah, what high degree of light was his. (Braheen Ahmadiyya, p.246)

My belief that I hold in this life and with which, by the grace of Allah, I shall pass on from this world is that our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was Khataman Nabiyyeen and the best of Messengers. (Izala Auham, part I, p.137)

He declared:

I believe in the Khatam-i-Nabuwat of the Khatamul Anbjya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and consider one who denies the Khatam-i-Nabuwat as faithless and outside the pale of Islam. (Taqreer Wajabul llan, 1891)

You misunderstand what it means but that does not change the fact that we believe in Nabi (saw)

as the seal..

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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:42

ahmadianswers wrote:

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why not just copy and paste the quote. this way we are all happy. you get to post your info and we do not advertise sites that we believe spread falsehood. cool?

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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:42

ahmadianswers wrote:

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just copy and paste the section you want us to read that will be even better

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:42

This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.

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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:43

xs11ax wrote:

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Ok i will copy paste as you said:

Promised Messiah(As) never called other Muslims kaffir.He always called them his Muslim brothers if you take a look at his writings,and always treated them with respect.

Ahmad(As) said:
“He who does not call us a kafir, we do not call him a kafir at all.”

“We do not declare anyone to be outside Islam unless he himself becomes a kafir by calling us kafirs. It is not perhaps known to you that when I first claimed to have been appointed by God, Maulvi Abu Said Muhammad Husain of Batala prepared a fatwa with great effort in which it was written that I was a kafir, etc. ..Now it is accepted on all hands that anyone who calls a believer a kafir himself becomes a kafir”

Non Ahmadi’s usually bring a quote from a letter to Dr Hakim, but this is in detail explained by Promised Sonرضي الله عنه and was actually a reply to people who call the Messiah(as) kaffir. They were not even the words of the Messiah(As) rather a revelation from Allah to him. If you read the whole reply he who does not accept me is not general to all rather apply to those ulama who had declared Ahmad(As) and Ahmadis as kafir.

Also the Promised Son, Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad(Ra) did originally explain the status of Non Ahmadi Muslims differently but later on changed his views and showed the correct meaning of what he was referring to as these quotes show :

Khalifa II about non-Ahmadi Muslims later in his life:

“There is a lot of difference in the definition of kufr between Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis. They consider the meaning of Kafir to be denial of Islam, but we do not give it this meaning for them.”

“We believe that after a certain point, a man gets the right of calling himself a Muslim, but when he denigrates from that point, he can be called a Muslim but not a true Muslim. This is our definition of Kufr and Islam.”

“According to this definition, we do not say that every kafir will go to hell for eternity. We do not even say that for Jews and Christians. We believe one day God will free them from Hell and they will enter paradise.”

“Again I pronounce that we do not give kufr the meaning which they (other Muslims) give. According to our meaning, when a person considers Islam as his religion and Qur’anic commandments as his manual for life, he gets the right of being called Muslim but in the true sense he only becomes Muslim when he acts upon the Islamic teachings. However, when he denies some fundamental principle of Islam then he is called Muslim but in the true sense does not remain Muslim.”

“We do not say someone is kafir in the meaning that he is rejecting Hadrat Muhammad (sa) as a prophet, when some say that I believe in Hadrat Muhammad (sa), then who can say that you do not? In our opinion, denying of fundamentals of Islam is kufr and such a person cannot be a TRUE Muslim.”

You are still a Muslim but not a true Muslim.You have committed disbelief by rejecting the Promised Messiah(As) in not only him, but the prophecies of Muhammad (saw)

as well.

This is commonly misunderstood with many Non Ahmadis. For some reason they believe that as Ahmadis we say that they are non Muslims and this is totally incorrect.There are different types of kufr (disbelief). There are some types of kufr which do not make you a non Muslim rather are kufr within Islam. Here are some examples from the Ahadith:

حَدَّثَنَا سُلَيْمَانُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا وَائِلٍ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ “‏ سِبَابُ الْمُسْلِمِ فُسُوقٌ، وَقِتَالُهُ كُفْرٌ ‏”‏‏.‏ تَابَعَهُ غُنْدَرٌ عَنْ شُعْبَةَ‏.‏

Narrated `Abdullah:
Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (i.e., an evil-doing), and killing him is Kufr (disbelief). (Bukhari, Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 70) Now killing a Muslim is also kufr but this does not make you a non Muslim.

Another example:

حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى التَّمِيمِيُّ، وَعُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، كِلاَهُمَا عَنْ جَرِيرٍ، قَالَ يَحْيَى أَخْبَرَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرًا، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏ “‏ إِنَّ بَيْنَ الرَّجُلِ وَبَيْنَ الشِّرْكِ وَالْكُفْرِ تَرْكَ الصَّلاَةِ ‏”‏ ‏.‏

It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that he heard the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) saying. Verily between man and between polytheism and unbelief is the negligence of prayer.( : Sahih Muslim 82 a) Skipping prayer is also a form of kufr according to this authentic narration, but does not make you a non Muslim.

If you follow these conditions, you are a Muslim

حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ الْمَهْدِيِّ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مَنْصُورُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ مَيْمُونِ بْنِ سِيَاهٍ، عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ “‏ مَنْ صَلَّى صَلاَتَنَا، وَاسْتَقْبَلَ قِبْلَتَنَا، وَأَكَلَ ذَبِيحَتَنَا، فَذَلِكَ الْمُسْلِمُ الَّذِي لَهُ ذِمَّةُ اللَّهِ وَذِمَّةُ رَسُولِهِ، فَلاَ تُخْفِرُوا اللَّهَ فِي ذِمَّتِهِ ‏”‏‏.‏

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, “Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah’s and His Apostle’s protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection.” (Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 8, Hadith 386)

Ahmad(As) is a prophet of Allah and is the same messiah(As) whom the Prophet Muhammad(Saw) had prophesied about. If you reject Ahmad(As) you are not rejecting him alone, but rather are rejecting Muhammad(Saw) as well because it was him who made the prophecies which were all accepted.By rejecting Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(As) you have committed kufr in him and in reality have also went against the prophecies of Muhammad(Saw) the Seal of all the Prophets and committed disbelief in regards to his prophecies about the Messiah(As). Non Ahmadi Muslims are indeed Muslims but it is clear that they are not true Muslims.

Some also quote a saying where Ahmad(as) has stated that those who oppose him are opposing Muhammad (saw)

and are jahanami. There is nothing wrong with this statement and whoever raises this allegation has no clue of the Ahadith of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)

. He

stated:

حَدَّثَنَا مَحْمُودُ بْنُ غَيْلاَنَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو دَاوُدَ الْحَفَرِيُّ، عَنْ سُفْيَانَ الثَّوْرِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ زِيَادِ بْنِ أَنْعُمَ الإِفْرِيقِيِّ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ يَزِيدَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ “‏ لَيَأْتِيَنَّ عَلَى أُمَّتِي مَا أَتَى عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ حَذْوَ النَّعْلِ بِالنَّعْلِ حَتَّى إِنْ كَانَ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ أَتَى أُمَّهُ عَلاَنِيَةً لَكَانَ فِي أُمَّتِي مَنْ يَصْنَعُ ذَلِكَ وَإِنَّ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ تَفَرَّقَتْ عَلَى ثِنْتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ مِلَّةً وَتَفْتَرِقُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى ثَلاَثٍ وَسَبْعِينَ مِلَّةً كُلُّهُمْ فِي النَّارِ إِلاَّ مِلَّةً وَاحِدَةً قَالُوا وَمَنْ هِيَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ قَالَ مَا أَنَا عَلَيْهِ وَأَصْحَابِي ‏”‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ مُفَسَّرٌ حَسَنٌ غَرِيبٌ لاَ نَعْرِفُهُ مِثْلَ هَذَا إِلاَّ مِنْ هَذَا الْوَجْهِ ‏.‏
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr:
that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “What befell the children of Isra’il will befall my Ummah, step by step, such that if there was one who had intercourse with his mother in the open, then there would be someone from my Ummah who would do that. Indeed the children of Isra’il split into seventy-two sects, and my Ummah will split into seventy-three sects. All of them are in the Fire Except one sect.” He said: “And which is it O Messenger of Allah?” He said: “What I am upon and my Companions.(Jami’at Tirmidhi #2641)
This does not mean that all of these sects would be non Muslims rather shows they would be misguided, as are the ones who reject Ahmad(as).
Here is the saying of the Promised Son Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmadرضي الله عنه which people should also read when it comes to this confusion of kufr:

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:44

This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.

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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:03

ahmadianswers wrote:

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So what happened to ummati nabi? You keep saying that some brothers are contradicting each other but it is kind of scary for mirza ghulam to be doing that isn't it?
So did he believe himself to be a prophet after Rasoollulah (saw)

or not?

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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:05

byellow200 wrote:

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I have already answered you stop repeating yourself. Anyways my comments now need approval any sincere mind that reads this discussion can see who was unable to answer

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