Discussion with a follower of Ahmadiyyah sect...

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 15:58

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The Holy Prophet(SAW) and the sahaba and many scholars have clearly stated that the messiah will be a nabi in fact the Holy Prophet (saw)

called him a prophet four times in a single hadith yet brothers are saying its fact that he wont be a prophet. Now my question is why should I leave the belief of the Holy Prophet (saw)

the mercy for all of mankind for a false ideology of yours? secondly imam suyuti has a fatwa against you now for committing disbelief. many ahadith show the messiah would be a nabi is four times in a single hadith not enough for you? thats pretty upsetting as one dot out of the mouth of my master Muhammad (saw)

is bound to be accepted by true Muslims. Now who is right and who is wrong? If you brothers are contradicting yourself how can you think of inviting someone to a discussion?

Where is the Hadeeth text and source that you keep mentioning post after post?

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 15:59

we believe that the Prophet Muhammad (saw)

was the seal of the Prophets.
we believe that the Prophet Isa (as) has not yet died and will return to lead the muslims.
we believe that the Prophet Isa (as) will return as an ummati who will follow the shariah of the Prophet Muhammad (saw)

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:11

Ok I have another question thats been bugging me, if someone does not believe that mirza ghulam is a prophet is he a Muslim? Yes or no?

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 16:14

Quote:

we believe that the Prophet Muhammad (saw)

was the seal of the Prophets. [/quote]
Mirza ghulam would beg to differ.
[quote]we believe that the Prophet Isa (as) has died according to the Quran and Sunanh and will not return rather the messiah who was prophesied was prophesied as an imam from amongst us and that man is no other than Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) of Qadian :)

So has the messaih killed dajjal then?

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:12

Dear Qadiyani,

Preamble:

Our success and the success of whole mankind is dependent upon obeying the commandments of Allah (SWT) as shown by Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who lived and passed away in Madina 1400 years ago.

Your illusions and misunderstandings will be addressed systematically in a point by point manner so I suggest that you also get organised and address issues systematically.

Part 1: Prophets are Chosen by Allah (SWT):

We (Muslims) Believe that Prophets are chosen by Allah (SWT) and they deliver the message as they are commanded by Allah (SWT) without deviation and amendment.

There are many examples of the Prophets (AS) saying it to their people and clarifying the matter so I will give you a few.

Sayyidina Huda (AS) told his people very clearly that he was appointed towards them by Allah (SWT).

Evidence 1:

[11:1] Alif , Lam , Ra . (This is) a book the verses of which have been made firm, and elaborated by the One who is All Wise, All Aware.

[11:2] (directing the Prophet to say to the people,) .You must not worship anyone other than Allah; I am for you a warner from Him, and a bearer of glad tidings;

Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was explicitly commanded by Allah (SWT) to deliver the message AS-IS.

Evidence 2:

[5:67] O Messenger, convey all that has been sent down to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you shall not have conveyed His message (at all). Allah shall protect you from the people. Surely, Allah does not lead the disbelieving people to the right path.

Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) also explicitly states that he doesn’t speak from his desires but what is revealed to him (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Evidence 3:

[53:3] He does not speak out of (his own) desire.
[53:4] It is but revelation revealed (to him).

Summary of Part 1:

Prophets (AS) are chosen by Allah (SWT)
They deliver the message which is revealed to them by Allah (SWT)

If you DISAGREE please state your evidence.

If you AGREE (so far) please state clearly that you AGREE.

I will continue the discussion based on your response.

Thanks

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:25

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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Of course prophets are chosen by Allah...

[admin edit: the rest of the post was removed as it's going in circles and it's been pasted many times in previous posts]

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:25

ahmadianswers wrote:

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So are you asserting that the Prophet Salalaho Aliahi wasalam lied when he said there will be no prophets after me?

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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:30

ahmadianswers wrote:

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I read the Hadeeth, every single word. There's no mention that the Prophet (saw)

or the Sahaabah said that he will be a Prophet when he returns. He "is" a Prophet and He "will" be a Prophet are two different things. You need to first understand timelines and then maybe you can understand Jinn's question and answer him.

Second you need to answer Muadh's question because you've not posted an answer.

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:34

Summary of Part 1:

Prophets (AS) are chosen by Allah (SWT)
They deliver the message which is revealed to them by Allah (SWT)

[QUOTE=ahmadianswers]Of course prophets are chosen by Allah..[/QUOTE]

You have chosen to neglect Part 2 of the summary.

If you DISAGREE please state your evidence.

If you AGREE (so far) please state clearly that you AGREE with both 1 & 2.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:39

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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I clearly said I agreed with both? ....

[admin edit: remainder of post removed as it's just repeating more accusations - please continue with the just answers. Nothing extra]

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:40

Holy Prophet Mohammed said:

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."

(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:40

Say sadaqa Rasollalah (saw)

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 17:48

Who will be Imam Mahdi that is predicted in the Ahadith of Holy Prophet Muhammad ??

Another claim that the founder of Ahmadiyya had put forward is that he is Imam Mahdi. Many Muslims have been trapped by this claim. Let us see what Holy Prophet Muhammad had said about the coming of Imam Mahdi.

·The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi
Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra)

·Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99)

·Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression.(Abu Dawood)

·The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a SINGLE NIGHT. (Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

·The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima.(Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519)

·The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet's daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086)

·Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

·Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275)

·After the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him. Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground. On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate INDEED is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat. (Abu Dawood)

·A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: "No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them. (Sahih Muslim)

According to these reliable, authentic, and universally accepted narrations, Imam Mahdi will:
1.Be from among the family of Prophet (saw)

, among the descendants of Fatimaرضي الله عنه;
2.Have a broad forehead and pointed noise;
3.Appear in one night;
4.Appear just before the day of judgment;
5.Have same name as Hazrat Muhammad(SAW);
6.Escape from Madina to Makkah where people will pledge allegiance to him;
7.Receive pledge and help of Iraqi people;
8.Fight in battles;
9.Rule over the Arabs for seven years according to Sunnah;
10.Spread justice and equity on earth;
11.Eradicate tyranny and oppression;
12.Lead a prayer in Makkah which Jesus(pbuh) will follow in;
13.NOT be the same individual as the Promised Messiah (Jesus).

Did Mirza Ghulam Qadiani fulfilled these criteria and performed his duties?

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 18:01

Dear Qadiyani,

Preamble:

Your illusions and misunderstandings will be addressed systematically in a point by point manner so I suggest that you also get organised and address issues systematically.

Part 1 was stated here and summarised as follows:

Prophets (AS) are chosen by Allah (SWT)
They deliver the message which is revealed to them by Allah (SWT)

Qadiyani has decided to waffle post after post but conceded that he at least agrees to Part 1 of the conclusion above.

Part 2: The Station of Prophethood is Permanent!

Throughout the entire treasure of Qur’aan and Sunnah we do not find a SINGLE reference where Allah (SWT) revoked someone’s prophet hood, in fact once they were chosen by Allah (SWT) they remained Prophets (AS) FOREVER.

Their lofty rank and stature will continue even into the next life. How do we know this? Because Allah (SWT) has declared that those who obey Allah (SWT) and Prophet Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) will be amongst the company (and their ranks and stature specifically) designated.

[4:69] Those who obey Allah and the Messenger are with those whom Allah has blessed, namely, the prophets, the Siddiqin, the Shuhada‘ and the righteous. And excellent are they as companions.

Summary of Part 2:

Prophets (AS) are PERMANENT!
There is NOT A SINGLE Prophet (AS) who UNBECAME a Prophet (AS)!

If you DISAGREE please state your evidence.

If you AGREE (so far) please state clearly that you AGREE.

I will continue the discussion based on your response.

Thanks

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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 9th May 2015 18:03

Muadh_Khan wrote:

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if someone is chosen as a prophet he remains as a prophet and prophethood is not taken away

[admin edit: answer kept above, the rest where he tries to change Muadh's meaning and puts words into messages that aren't there has been removed

so you are clearly stating the messiah would come as a prophet. Do you agree that there is no contradiction in Quran? If Allah states something it is final?

]

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Discussion with a follower of Ahmadiyyah sect...

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Preamble:

Part 1: Prophets are Chosen by Allah (SWT):

Evidence 1:

Evidence 2:

Evidence 3:

Summary of Part 1:

Summary of Part 1:

Preamble:

Part 2: The Station of Prophethood is Permanent!

Summary of Part 2: