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Is Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel Shia Lover or Kaafir?

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 16:56
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I hope the Guest no longer posts randomly, this was a one off and was important therefore the message of every post was passed on. Otherwise, next time I won't be passing on any messages. Jazakallah.
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 10th June 2014 11:47

Part 11 Does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) still call for Shia/Sunni unity?

This alleged statement is made in some books and introduced in English on Sunniforum by Shaykh (Maulana) Syed Taliban (HA) as follows:

The excerpt in question is from Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) Bayan in Barcelona (2013). We will translate the full passage and its context to make it clear what he is actually saying so listeners can listen to the whole conect and decide for themselves, Insha'Allah:

Halalified YT Audio

Adopt the life and appearance of our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) both internally and externally. Allah (SWT) wants appearance like his beloved Habib (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)!

I was in Quetta surrounded by a large group of people and a man was knocking on the glass door and I could see him. I asked for him to be let in, he had a child who looked like my son so I asked for the man to be let it. He requested for me to make dua for my son so I asked him about the illness. He replied that his son had a congenital heart defect so I suggested surgery and the father starting sobbing and said that he is a poor man how can he afford surgery?

I know nothing about this man or what he does but his son looked like my son. I called my brother who is cardiologist and said that I am sending a man with his son operate on him and don’t charge a penny! We will arrange for all the expenses. Why? Because in the appearance of this child I saw (the suffering of) my own son and I am a minor agriculturist (with little means) but my heart melted. So imagine when you adopt the appearance of our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and my Allah (SWT) witnessing this appearance of his beloved Habib (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) how will his treasures of Mercy respond to your appearance?

How will his Mercy response?

How will his treasures open up?

I beg of you, I beg of you for Allah(SWT)! La Ilala Illalah is the passport and Muhammadur-Rasoolullah is the VISA. Allah (SWT) blessed you with the passport now at least get the VISA! In Europe on every airport they looked at our shengen (European) VISA and then they let us through the airports, which visa do you think will be checked at the Bridge of Siraat? They will ask you for your “Muhammadi stamp”?

Maulana is now sobbing with tears!

If you have the visa then you will be able to cross! I haven’t come here to ask you anything for myself! I haven’t come here to make you a member of Tableeghi Jamaat! Tableegh is the effort of Emaan! After centuries a work has been revived which is free of sectarianism, it presents “Islam”. If this (work) was also based on sectarianism then you won’t be gathered here in such large numbers. If this was a movement to collect funds then I would have sent so many people around to get funds from such a large gathering (such as yourselves). I want to connect you with Allah (SWT) and his Rasool (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). I am also looking to connect (with them) and I am more in danger then you. You don’t understand that the one standing here (in front) is more in danger (then you), he can’t even claim that I am sincere in my search for Allah (SWT) you can claim that because I can see your tears falling but I know myself and I can’t say that about my (own sincerity) . I am also searching for my Allah (SWT), I also want to learn to be a slave of His Habeeb (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). I also invite you to do the same! You don’t need to go to a jungle, you just need to reflect upon (and amend) your daily lives. Mould your life according to the model of our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), fix your business dealings (according to Sunnah), fix your work (according to Sunnah), adopt truthfulness as your criteria, fall into prostration at prayer times ensure that no matter where you are what you are engaged in your Salah shouldn’t be skipped or delayed, don’t deceive others, it is unbecoming of a believer to be deceitful! My Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) has declared that my Ummati can do other things but he can neither lie nor deceive.

So don’t deceive these (Europeans)! Don’t marry their (European) daughters to get passport! Don’t defame your Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) in these (European) lands. Say to yourself that if I can’t increase the honour of my Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) then at least I shouldn’t defame him (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) either! Are you denying that you will one day meet him (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)? That’s can’t be done so you have no choice but to be prepared to meet him (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Today is a huge gathering so let me say what is within my heart. Firstly I tell you to make the desire of Allah (SWT) and His Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) your own desire. Whatever you need to abandon (for their sake), abandon it, discard it! If you can’t abandon it immediately set yourself on a path to do it slowly (and gradually). Snap out of these (sins) progressively, I accept that sometimes it is difficult to snap out of them at once (and immediately), begin to back out step by step and one day you will get out (of sin) but at least make the intention. Make the intention to abandon the wrong, make the intention to abandon the sin. Why have you decided that this is the only way?

Make the intention!

Secondly become an (singular) Ummat! Be an (singular) Ummat! Be an (singular) Ummat! Don’t be Deobandi, Wahabi, Barelwee, Shia, Sunni! Ummat!!! There is wild fire (of sectarianism) raging in Pakistan! This wild fire has burned homes, hearts and Mosques to ash and tinder...

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 10th June 2014 12:24

Part 12 Does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) say that battles Badar and Khandaq are irrelevant?

He actually says the EXACT opposite!

Halalified YT Audio

After being ground in the mill (of patience) for 13 years THEN the occasion came which is declared Yaumul-Furqan by Allah (SWT), 1000 on one side and 313 on the other, 2 horses on one side and fully armed on the other and there is no comparison.

But my Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) cried all night in dua, the Sahabah (RA) cried all night in dua and Allah (SWT0 said that if they are 1000 (disbelievers) then I will send 1000 Angels!

[8:9] When you were calling your Lord for help, so He responded to you (saying): .I am going to support you with one thousand of the angels, one following the other.

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2014 11:12

Part 13 Why does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) praise Maulana Maududi (RA)?

We have dedicated an entire thread to this discussion about praising the good qualities of someone while disagreeing with someone.

Here is a talk on the subject by Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) about Maulana Maududi (HA) in which he disagrees with a lot of factors but also says:

Halalified YT Audio

Maududi Saheb (RA) was a person who (self) studied and his studies were indeed extensive and he also familiarised himself with the Deen to a large extent. He wanted to establish an Islamic organisation and to make Islam supreme and for an Islamic system to emerge (and become dominant) and for the believers to establish (and stamp) their personalities. This was his ideology and for it he worked for his entire life.

His efforts (in their right) were praiseworthy and to be appreciated. However unfortunately when his writings came forth then in almost every writing violations of the (soul of his mission) were found.

Also refers to him as Maulana e.g. minutes 2:23

Specifics will be discussed in the next part, Insha'Allah

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 13th June 2014 11:34

Part 14 Why does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) praise Maulana Maududi (RA) over Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA)?

Again we will report the entire clip and translation for people to judge what he says:

Halalified YT Audio

Maulana Maududi (RA) was a pious person, a good Alim, he didn’t create a new sect, he didn’t write a new Fiqh, he didn’t write a new Ijtehaad. He was a Hanafi Muslim and a Hanafi Scholar and he has a lot of credit for to explaining Deen to the (literate and professional) classes. He has a lot of credit for refuting Socialism. He has a lot of credit for refuting rejecters of Hadeeth. Hamidud-deen Farahi (RA)  was a well known Scholar whose student was Maulana Amin Islahi (RA) and now followed by Javed Ghamdi who has completely lost the plot!...But Maulana Hamidud-deen Farahi (RA) objected to some Ahadeeth in the light of logic (and intellect) but Maulana Maududi (RA) refuted and countered him and did it with extreme force, due attention and diligence.

If you read the Mawaidh of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) you will find that the language is of very high Academic standard and it appears that there were Ulama present in front of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) and even the laymen were of extremely high (Academic) calibre and it makes sense because this was in UP. Even Ulama find some things hard to understand and laymen has no way to understand it let alone benefit from it. The language is very Academic in nature!

We (Punjabees) on the other hand don’t even know Urdu properly let alone Academic terms and nuances. So the writings of our Akabir have been of extremely high Academic standard and language and the Academic excellence shines through. Maulana Maududi (RA) was the first person who presented Islam in a simple down to earth language and manner so people understood it. Read the  Mawaidh of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) sometimes and you will find Mantiz terms, Arabic idioms and proverbs, Fiqh terms and this is of such high Academic calibre that forget a laymen even a student of a Darul-uloom may have difficulty following it. So it is credit to Maududi Saheb (RA) that he chased (refuted) socialism and did it in language and tone which is appealing and lucid.

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 21st June 2014 12:52

Part 15 Why does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) narrate weak and fabricated traditions?

There are two issues being discussed here, weak and then fabricated traditions and we will Insha’Allah discuss the two issues separately.

Weak Narrations:

As far as weak traditions are concerned then it is permissible to narrate them when it comes to matters of Fadhail i.e. encouraging Muslims to do good deeds or discouraging them from doing evil. We have covered this topic in great detail in a dedicated article.

The issue of strengthening or weakening of Hadeeth (and its chains etc) isn’t mentioned in the Qur’aan or Sunnah as explicitly, neither is it a foregone conclusion (as its portrayed by overzealous Brothers and Sisters) rather, it is a matter of Ijtehaad (amongst Scholars). To summarise the matter we quote the Saudi site islamqa as follows:

ومسألة تصحيح حديث ، أو تضعيفه ، في مثل ذلك هي من موارد الاجتهاد ، التي يعمل فيها العالم بما ترجح لديه ، ويتابع فيها طالب العلم ما ترجح لديه من أقوال أهل العلم ، وليست من موارد الإنكار على المخالف
 

The issue of whether a hadeeth is to be classed as saheeh or da‘eef is one of the areas of ijtihaad, in which the scholar acts upon that which is more likely to be correct in his view, and in which the seeker of knowledge follows that scholarly view which is more likely to be correct in his opinion. This is not a matter in which one may denounce someone who holds a different view.

Fabricated Narrations:

Ruling:

Narrating falsehood in the name of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is indeed forbidden and a very serious matter since it is categorically stated:

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو نُعَيْمٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ عُبَيْدٍ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ رَبِيعَةَ، عَنِ الْمُغِيرَةِ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ كَذِبًا عَلَىَّ لَيْسَ كَكَذِبٍ عَلَى أَحَدٍ، مَنْ كَذَبَ عَلَىَّ مُتَعَمِّدًا فَلْيَتَبَوَّأْ مَقْعَدَهُ مِنَ النَّارِ ‏"‏‏.‏ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ مَنْ نِيحَ عَلَيْهِ يُعَذَّبُ بِمَا نِيحَ عَلَيْهِ ‏"‏‏.‏

Sayyidina Al-Mughira ibn Shu'ba (RA)  narrated, "I heard the Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." I heard the Prophet saying, "The deceased who is wailed over is tortured for that wailing." [Bukhari]

‘Allamah ‘Abd al-Hayy al-Laknawi (RA) has categroically stated this matter as follows:

Know that the fuqaha and the muhaddithun in their entirety have clarified in their books that it is prohibited to narrate, cite and transmit fabricated (mawdu’) [hadiths], and act upon its purport while believing it to be established, except with a warning that it is fabricated.

All of the above categorically explains that there is no room for deliberate narrating of fabricated traditions, at all.  However, we need to make a distinction between deliberately narrating a fabrication, making a mistake and valid difference of opinion.

Difference of opinion regarding the fabrication?

Here we would like to quote an example of a narration which is declared “fabricated” by Shaykh Ibn Hazm (RA), Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) amongst others:

أصحابي كالنجوم بأيهم اقتديتم اهتديتم
 

“My Companions are like the stars, whichever of them you follow you will be rightly guided”

The fact of the matter is there is a difference of opinion upon this narration and many Scholars have declared this to be “Authentic”.

Establishing the fabrication and what is being claimed:

We found an instance where Scholars have ruled on a narration presented in a talk of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) to be a fabricated and this was given at Blackburn Markaz (UK) around 2009. A recording of this is presented from a source on youtube as follows followed by a full translation:

Halalified YT Audio

Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was ill for approximately 13 days. A week before his passing away a delegation of Sahabah (RA) comes to visit. Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) cries and then states, “I entrust you (all) to Allah (SWT) and He (SWT) will suffice for you. He (SWT) will be your Guardian. He (SWT) will be your Helper.

Sayyidina Abdullah Ibn Masood (RA) heard this and said O Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) this sounds like farewell (parting) advice so who will give you Ghus’l, he (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) replied my Ahl al-Bayt.

He (RA) then asked who will give you Kafan, he (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) replied my Ahl al-Bayt.

He (RA) then asked who will give lower you into the grave, he (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) replied my Ahl al-Bayt.

He (RA) then asked who will perform your Janazah Salah, at this tears came in the eyes of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). His (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam)’s Janazah wasn’t like mine or yours! He (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said after Ghus’l leave the room as my Allah (SWT) will perform my Janazah and then Jibarel (RA), then Mika’el (RA), then Israfeel (RA) then the selected angels of the throne...

 

Verdict on Fabrication?

To the best of our knowledge as the Ulama have ruled that this is indeed a fabrication. Allamah Dhahabi (RA) ruled it as such:

قال الحافظ الذهبى فى " العلو " 1 / 43 : هذا حديث موضوع و أراه من افتراء عبد المنعم و إنما رويته لهتك حاله

Ruling on this narration by Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA):

Here Shaykh (HA) is attributing this to Sayyidina Abdullah Ibn Masood (RA) and NOWHERE does he claim this to be Authentic words of Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) directly.

This indirect association has a different ruling so we quote the Saudi site islamqa as follows:

 واعلم أن هذا القول في غاية القوة كما تراه ، لكن يتوجه أن يُفرق بين الذي يكذب عليه مشافهة ، وبين الذي يكذب عليه بواسطة ، مثل أن يقول: حدثني فلان بن فلان عنه بكذا ، فإن هذا إنما كذب على ذلك الرجل ونسب إليه ذلك الحديث ، فأما إن قال : هذا الحديث صحيح أو ثبت عنه أنه قال ذلك ، عالما بأنه كذب ، فهذا قد كذب عليه، وأما إذا افتراه ورواه رواية ساذجة ففيه نظر ، لاسيما والصحابة عدول بتعديل الله لهم ، فالكذب لو وقع من أحد ممن يدخل فيهم لعظم ضرره في الدين، فأراد قتل من كذب عليه ، وعجل عقوبته ليكون ذلك عاصما من أن يدخل في العدول من ليس منهم من المنافقين ونحوهم .

وأما من روى حديثا يعلم أنه كذب ، فهذا حرام كما صح عنه أنه قال : " من روى عني حديثا يعلم أنه كذب فهو أحد الكاذبين" لكن لا يكفر إلا أن ينضم إلى روايته ما يوجب الكفر؛ لأنه صادق في أن شيخه حدثه به ، لكن لعلمه بأن شيخه كذب فيه لم تكن تحل له الرواية ، فصار بمنزلة أن يشهد على إقرار أو شهادة أو عقد وهو يعلم أن ذلك باطل ، فهذه الشهادة حرام ، لكنه ليس بشاهد زور)

It should be noted that this view is very strong but a distinction should be made between the one who tells lies about him verbally and the one who tells lies about him that he claims to have heard from someone else, such as saying: “So and so the son of So and so told me such and such from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” In this case he is telling lies about that man and attributing the hadeeth to him. But if he says “This hadeeth is saheeh” or “It was proven that he said that”, knowing it to be false, then he is telling lies about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). But if he fabricates it and narrates it in silly manner, this is subject to further discussion, especially since the Sahaabah are regarded as being dignified and of good character and if one of them were to lie it would cause a great deal of harm to the religion. Therefore the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)  wanted to kill the one who told lies about him and he hastened to punish him so that would be means of preventing any of the hypocrites being counted as one of the Sahaabah of good character.

But if a person narrated a hadeeth knowing it to be false, this is haraam, as it was narrated in a saheeh hadeeth that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:  “Whoever narrates a hadeeth from me that he knows is false is one of the liars.” But he is not a kaafir unless he adds to that narration something that implies kufr, because he believes that his Shaykh narrated it, but he knows that his Shaykh is lying and it is not permissible for him to narrate it. So he is in the same position as one who witnesses a deal, a testimony or a contract knowing it to be invalid. This testimony is haraam, but he is not bearing false witness per se (shahaadat al-zoor). 

What should be done?

This is a mistake!

Whether its directly narrated, indirectly narrated, done unintentionally it should NEITHER be reported NOR spread rather Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) should be immediately notified of this error even if he is narrating it from an authority who has deemed this narration not to be a fabrication (remember that if he thinks of it as weak then it is permissible for him to narrate it).

Nevertheless to issues Fatwaas of Kuf’r or Fatwaas for him to be avoided based on this particular incident is far fetched because we have example of Ulama who in the past have included fabricated narrations in their works for two simple reasons:

  1. They didn't consider it to be a fabrication
  2. They made a mistake i.e. it was unintentional

Therefore Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) should be notified of this error or anyone for that matter who makes similar mistakes.

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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 8th August 2014 11:55
It has been weeks since the questions about this issue were delivered to Mufti Zarwali Khan (HA)' Darul-uloom in Karachi. They promised a response in 1 week and this was a few weeks before Ramadhan!

No update, no ETA and it is hampering further progress on this issue...
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2014 14:21

Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) on Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA):

This was a chance for Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) to explain his statements on one hand condemning him and his Bayan (praising Maulana) Tariq Jameel Saheb (HA) when he visited Jamia Ahsanul-Uloom (Karachi). I have been waiting since Ramadhan for Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) to clarify his statements and issue a clear Fatwa on Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) instead of random (and conflicting) statements here and there.

Sent a full query to him which was hand delivered to the Darul-uloom in Karachi, I was promised a response within a week. I have been patiently waiting since!

Just been told (now ) from Karachi that Darul-uloom doesn't feel comfortable in responding to my query in an official capacity as they believe that their response will be interpreted in a wrong way if publicly released.

I had asked their clear opinion on Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) while providing excerpts on his Bayans (which are deemed controversial) and explanations from other Bayans.

Jazkallahu Khayran

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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 15th September 2014 12:45
Post 23 updated with the latest Bayan and English translation provided by Brother Jinn.
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 20th August 2015 13:00

Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA) & Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA):

8th July 2014:

Question handed over personally to Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA)'s Darul-uloom in Karachi as follows:

  1. What is your precise position on Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA)? You have criticised him but also invited him to your Darul-uloom and said that his speech moved you to Tears
  2. What precisely are your objections and what are the basis for them?
  3. Kindly respond in writing and in detail

Response promised in 1 week!

27th July 2014:

No response so 2nd (perasonal) visit to the Darul-uloom asking for a response.

8th August 2014:

No response and at this time Darul-uloom REFUSE to write a detailed Fatwa on their position.

8th August 2015:

Darul-uloom REFUSE to write a detailed Fatwa on their position but continue to MOCK  Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) and take pot-shots in random Bayans.

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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 20th August 2015 13:38
Sad and they continue to take pot shots.
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 20th August 2015 13:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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If you really think that Darul uloom will deliver a clear cut fatwa regarding Molana db, then this is just a thought. No one (except majlis) delivers fatawa like this.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 20th August 2015 13:50

Abdullah1 wrote:
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شیخ صاحب فتوی چھوڑو مسٰلہ کیا ہے یہ بولو بجاے جمعہ بیانوں مے فضول ایران توران اور لطیفے سنانے کے بجاے۔ اصل پروبلم کیا ہے تفصیل سے بتاو؟ اپنے مریدوں اور مداحوں میں بیٹھ کے الٹے سیدھے پشتو لطیفے سنانا بھت آسان کا م  ہے

ٖForget Fatwa, What is the real and precise issue of Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA)? Stop taking silly pot-shots and making (not funny) Pushtu jokes what is the PRECISE problem and the reason?

To sit amongst your Mureeds & cult members and say (unfunny) Pushto Jokes is an easy thing; anyone can do it!

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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 20th August 2015 19:06
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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میں آپ کے جذبات کی قدر کرتا ہوں

I respect your sentiments.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2016 20:16
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A small mistake by Junaid Jamshed and they have issued Fatwaas of Kuf'r and filed a Police Report? This has shook me to the core. What did the Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) do to people who plotted his assassination for so many years?

How low can this Ummah go?

I have been talking for 40 years, don't you think I (Tariq Jameel) can make a mistake? I have been talking daily for 40 years, Allah Ta'ala has given us the door of repentance.

Can Tariq Jameel not make a mistake?

Can Tariq Jameel not repent?

At least ask me before issuing Fatwaas.

How low can this Ummat go?

What has this Ummat done to Junaid Jamshed. Kafir! Dog! Pig! What has this Ummah done?

I can make a mistake, I am human, I can say wrong things. IF a person says something wrong deliberately then he (indeed) become Kaafir but even he can repent. Can Tariq Jameel not make a mistake?

Junaid Jamshed has been serving Islam for 17 years and ONE MISTAKE of his and you made him a Kaafir???

Forget Deen, Humanity is lost!
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