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Is Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel Shia Lover or Kaafir?

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 12:10
abu mohammed wrote:
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Exactly.. Jazakallah khair..
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 19:18
Such Posts moved to debates section. Only members who have been added to that section may view and post there.
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 19:26
abu mohammed wrote:
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Also, all posts here are in defence of a rare scholar we have. Any posts (especially) as guest doing the opposite should be ignored and reported. Please don't cause this thread to end up in debates section too by replying to the guest or other further attacks.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 8th June 2014 21:54
@Admin

If you want such a topic to remain in public view, move it to "Members Research"

No guest posts allowed there and if anyone misbehave's, you can unselect them from the group.

JZK
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 09:55

Part 4 about Shias NOT being Kaafir:

Testimony of Saad Khan (Sunniforum Moderator) confirming what I have written:

Mawlana Tariq Jamil made ruju' from this statement after 'Allamah 'Ali Sher Haydri had a discussion with him.


It is Haram and Academically dishnoest to now bring this stuff up in blogs etc because the issue has been retracted/resolved.

Asslamo Allaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh Hazrat (HA),

If someone makes a mistake then realizes the mistake and uses the same method to publicize that he takes his words back and apologizes to the person and the person also forgives and forgets is it permissible for others to continue to discuss the matter?

For example lets say that you said something in "The Majlis" in 2011, upon reflection and afterwards in 2013 you realized that it may have been a problem so in 2013 you made a correction also in "The Majlis". You approached the person concerned and also published your correspondence. Is it permissible for me to continue to analyze your 2011 mistake when you clearly turned away from your mistake? Suppose that you had a disagreement in 2011 and you wrote something and in 2013 you stated that I still have a disagreement but my words may have been against Shariah so I apologies and seek forgiveness for my words but I make no apology for my Shariah stance and I continue to differ with the person but I do apologies for my behavior (and words)

Is this permissible?

What is the status of a person who will continue to analyze, discuss and publicize the stance from which a person has relented?

The reason I ask is that I have heard Hazrat Thanwi (RA) and our Akabir had changed some views but some people on the Internet still continue to publicize the old positions. Even in real life two people can fall out and say things which are inappropriate, if they communicate directly with each other (and patch up) what is the status of others continuing to discuss and deliberate matters which are not their business?

What is the status of a person who publicizes the "private" sins of a Muslim? A Muslim commits a sin privately which 5 people witnessed (and I made Taubah) but this person starts to publicize this sin to 500 people?

Jazakallahu Khayran

ASSALAMU ALAIKM

3 Sha’baan 1435 (2 June 2014)

Muadh Khan

Your e-mail dated 31 May 2014 refers.

It is improper to cite a retraction to convey the impression that the view, i.e. the retracted / former view, is still extant. To do so is khiyaanat and not permissible. It is  fitnah.

A retraction is naasikh (abrogater) of the earlier view.

It is correct to apologize for  one’s method of acquittal whilst maintaining  one’s view/stance. For example,  if I feel that I had unjustifiably referred to someone as a moron, then I should apologize. But such apology does not cancel the  view which I believe to be correct.

A person who publicizes  someone’s hidden/private sin is evil. He believes himself to be pure. He is a mutakabbir. It is necessary to conceal the  private sins of people.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 10:04

Part 5 Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) & objections of Ghair-Muqallids:

Shaykh (Maulana) Ilyas Ghumman (HA)  in his illness (after his accident) states that it is necessary for us to defend our Akabir and our UIama because due to Jealousy (due to success of Tableeghi Jamaat) people are raising concerns so it has become incumbent upon us to answer these even during illness.

The enemies of (Deobandees) know that by attacking Fazail-e-Amaal they weaken the work of Tableegh and thereby weaken the Maslak of Deoband. So we will until our last breath defend Islam, defend Sunnah and defend the books, works and personalities of Deoband, Insha’Allah.

Halalified YT Audio

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 11:04

Part 6 Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) calling Tahirul-Qadri "Shaykhul-Islam":

On the Internet excerpts of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) are available where he calls Tahirul-Qadri “Shaykhul-Islam”. We would like to first produce the whole episode in 2012 as to what happened and its background.

Pakistan is devastated with violence and killings of Ulama and in this background Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) visited one of their centres in 2012. He was given a tour of the whole location and then towards the end Interviewed for a few minutes and here is an honest translation and analysis of the whole issue.

Whole issue:

Halalified YT Audio

We will not translate the Interview and would like for everyone to pay attention to the RED highlighted words.

Q): In what pretext and context do you view the Dawah activities of Shaykhul-Islam?

A): I see it in a beautiful context. It is the Grace of Allah (SWT) that he chooses someone for his work. He is one person and work is taken of thousands. Shaykhul-Islam is an individual who is one but I see him dominate in a crowd of thousands.

Q): There is a wave of Extremism and Terrorism in the world and in this context Shaykhul-Islam has issued a Fatwa, what are your views on this?

A): It is balanced and fair.

Background?

 

Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) is a Da'ee so is there any precedence for giving Dawah and stating the obvious rank of someone? First the Hadeeth of Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) as illustrated by Shaykh (Maulana) Abu Uzair (HA)

Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) wrote a letter to Heracules (Roman King) and called him great (Roman King)!

حدثنا الحسن بن علي ومحمد بن يحيى قالا حدثنا عبد الرزاق عن معمر عن الزهري عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة عن ابن عباس أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كتب إلى هرقل من محمد رسول الله إلى هرقل عظيم الروم سلام على من اتبع الهدى قال ابن يحيى عن ابن عباس أن أبا سفيان أخبره قال فدخلنا على هرقل فأجلسنا بين يديه ثم دعا بكتاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فإذا فيه بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم من محمد رسول الله إلى هرقل عظيم الروم سلام على من اتبع الهدى أما بعد

Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanwi (rahimahullah) and Shaykh Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi (rahimahullah) by Shaykh Muhammad Tayyib al-Qasimi (RA)

I have witnessed the fact that Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanwi (rahimahullah) differed on numerous subjects from Shaykh Amad Raza Khan Barelwi (rahimahullah). Their differences covered the topics of Qiyaam, Urs, Meelad etc. But in spite of this, whenever his name happened to be mentioned in a Majlis (gathering), he used to say, "Moulana Ahmad Raza Khan Sahib."

On one occasion an individual sitting in the Majlis mentioned his name without adding the title Moulana to his name saying, "Ahmad Raza Khan." Shaykh Thanwi (rahimahullah) became angry and scolded him saying, "He is an Alim after all in spite of the fact that there are differences of opinion between us, you are disrespecting the position he has been granted. How can this be correct? Differences of opinion is another matter altogether. It is a seperate issue that he considers me to be upon error pertaining to certain issues. What is the meaning of such condescension, such disrespect for him?"

Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanwi (rahimahullah) was among the Ahl-ul-ilm, the people of knowledge. If and when someone's name occurred he used to consider respect for that person to be necessary. Even if it was a person who bore absolute enmity towards him, he never allowed respect to leave his side.

 

 

Deobandi Reaction?

This issue was blown up on the Internet a few years ago because of a couplet displayed by a User Reehab (Haqqforum) and the translation is as follows:

Shaykhul-Shaytaan is he and not Shaykhul-Islam

The one who consider Tahirul-Qadri as Shaykh, what sort of a Muslim is he?

The Ghair-Muqallids and Barelwees wanted Deobandees to be humiliated so they wanted an open condemnation of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) using the own Deobandee standards.

Reehab possibly represents the most ardent (extremist) wing of Deobandees against Barelwees and he answers first while in Pakistan (while this issue arose) in July 2012 and then afterhis return from Pakistan in September 2012 and his comments are eye opening and truthful.

First comment (while in Pakistan): I am currently in Pakistan and I seldom get a chance to come here. I will answer your allegation and answer it loud and clear. The methodology of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) is clear and unambigous and he has ven gone to a pub to invite the people (back towards Allah). The work of Dawah/Tableegh needs wisdom and foresight and to bring the drunkard to Allah (SWT) and not to merely satisfy oneself from declaring a drunkard a drukard. While the purpose of my (couplet) is to make the lives of Barelwees as uncomfortable as possible!

Second comment (After return Pakistan): I have now returned from Pakistan. It is simple to understand the methodology of Dawah/Tableegh that these places have to be visited for Dawah and our (Haqq) has to be placed in front of people otherwise how will their hearts turn? And in order for people to listen one has to break the barriers, create space in the hearts before a person can actually listen to you. Now he (Tahirul-Qadri) has been called this (Shaykhul-Islam), now what can be done? But if this guy doesn't receive guidance then he will certainly be Shaykhul-Shaytaan!

Humble opinion:

I disagree with Tahirul-Qadri being called "Shaykhul-Islam" myself but who knows what intention was there?  And again taken the worst case scenario Shaykh (Maulana) Taqri Jameel (HA) has merely confirmed the rank in the words of his own people, I am not sure if we can declare him heretic for that?

Shaykh (Mufti) Rafi Usmani (HA) recalls in his 2011 Bayan at Ebraheem College (London) that his father i.e. Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (HA)  used to ride the same car and address gatherings of Seerah with Shia and Barelwee Ulama around 1948!

Halalified YT Audio

This talk is in response to sectarianism in the Ummah and Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA's words can be interpreted in the same way/intention. 

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 11:18

Part 7 Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) and Dawah with Actors/Actresses/Singers/Celebrities:

We will discuss the Aamir Khan issue separately but let’s discuss two issues around the same time which have been skipped in public.

Actress/Dancer  Deedar:

Left show business, made Taubah and now married, living with her husband and kids.

Actress/Dancer  Nargis:

From her press conference from her home (married and settled), she swears on the Qur'aan (silly but she is a new practising Muslimah who doesn't know much about Islam yet)

  1. I announce retirment from Show business
  2. Recently an actress said that “Nargis” placed the foundation of nudity in Pakistan and she alleged many things. My Sisters I just want to say that today I have placed a foundation for HIJAB so also follow me (now)!

Halalified YT Audio

Actress/Dancer/Stripper Veena Malik:

Broke all relationships and married! Says on TV about her meeting with Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) in January 2014.  She says that that she was apprehensive about meeting such a huge (religious) personality but Maulana met her and said a few words as follows:

(My) Daughter: For 2 years I have been making dua for you and it was my heartfelt desire to meet you and today my desire is being fulfilled. Maulana (HA) is the only person that didn’t judge me, didn’t take any promises from me BUT just called me “Daughter”

Singer Junaid Jamshaid:

Do I need to say more?

Mohmmad Yusuf (Yusuf Yohanna):?

Former Christian now Muslim with family and kids now in Darul-uloom!

Halalified YT Audio

Maulana Tariq Jameel (HA) on people who are quick to issue Fatwaas to condemn others!

People are hungry for love and you start giving Fatwaas!

I heard that our companions (from tableeghi Jamaat) didn’t use to eat at the residence of Junaid Jamshaid (in the beginning) because his income was Haram. I learned that he was very disheartened and sad about this behaviour (of others) as he was new in Tableegh.

I was going somewhere in Tableegh (beyond Karachi) so I called him and told him that I am coming and will be eating at your house!

Junaid Jamshaid asked, “At my house”?

I said yes at your house.

Junaid Jamshaid asked again, “At my house”?

I said yes at your house.

Junaid Jamshaid asked the third time, “Really, at my house”?

I said yes really, honestly at your house.

He said that nobody eats at my house because they say that my food is Haram

I said, “I am not a big Maulana, I can survive on your food…”

A little while later he was in 4 months Jamaat

So give people LOVE!

I was sitting in Raiwind Markaz and a man came and I was told that “Mubarak Cinema in Lahore” was owned by him. He used to come to Raiwind Markaz so that day he had brought some food with him which he tried to give to someone but they rejected saying that I can’t eat because your income is Haram. This guy is now very embarrassed (due to his food) being rejected.

I asked from him to be brought to me.

I asked him about his name and he said, “Haroon”

I asked him about his occupation so he bowed his head down and said, “I run a small business”.

I asked again about his business while his bowed down low he said, “Just a small business”.

I asked again about his business his bowed down low he said, “A cinema”.

I said which Cinema? He said, “Mubarak Cinema”

I said, “Mubarak Cinema?” Where I saw “Shamma Parwana”? Mubarak died so before the movies they used to have his picture and sad music and then they started the movie, that Mubarak Cinema?

He now raised his head in astonishment and started staring at him as to what I am talking about?

So that’s how I befriended him. Few days later I saw him with a huge beard putting 4 months in the Path of Allah (SWT).

People are so quick in issuing Fatwaas.

They assume in the worst, very quickly.

If someone has 100 good characteristics but 1 bad trait, they dismiss all of his good characters and utterly turn away and ignore the good.

I was at my (farmhouse) and a well-known (and qualified Engineer) came and started counting the bad traits of Tableeghees:

  1. You tableeghees are hypocrites.
  2. You tableeghees are two-faced
  3. You tableeghees are this and that

He was my guest and at my farmhouse and we are told to honour the guest so what could I say? If the guest beats us with his shoe we will tolerate it.

But after he was done I said, “Brother, Allah (SWT) has not demanded perfection. Allah (SWT) will count (and make up the discrepancy with His Mercy). Allah (SWT) has not demanded 100 out of 100 but said I will count if you have 51 I will forgive and you will pass. So these sins and mistakes which you are counting it is possible that Allah (SWT) will forgive (and forget) on account of the good actions of the Tableeghees. “

And to call someone evil is a sign of person’s own evil. I didn’t say it to him I am talking you all this.

To him I said that this (Government) of Pakistan which runs the education department passed a student who gets 33 (and overlooks 67 marks) and everybody tells this student of 33 marks that you passed (nobody calls him a failure, nobody can taunt him for being a failure) . Allah (SWT) is millions and millions times more Merciful then this (Government of) Pakistan who knows on which good deed he will overlook and say “Go, I have forgiven you!”

But our method has become of criticism.

Someone said, “Noor Jehan (the famous) singer died on the 27th of Ramadhan, how come???”

I said, “Go file a lawsuit and seek a response from Allah (SWT) as to why a singer, move actress died on the 27th night of Ramadhan!”

Can someone die on the 27th night of Ramadhan on their own free will? Blessed month, blessed last 10 days, blessed night, can anyone set their death on that day? May be Allah (SWT) liked something for which she was given death on that night!

But our habit is to become to criticise, to taunt, to hurt, and to malign and abuse. To pierce the heart with own taunting and abuse!

Why are you so concerned with the definciences of others? Why do recoil in anger, jealousy and disgust at others?

Become blind to deficiencies of others and look at their good.

Bring people closer with love, don’t push them away!

 

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 11:42

Part 8 Why does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) meet celebrities?

On the 25th of Janaury 2014 while discussing the Taubah of Veena Malik Asma Shirazi asked Maulana (HA) on Dawn news (Live).

Asma Shirazi:  Maulana, your words are eloquent and I would like for you to continue but let me ask as to why you only have contact with Show-biz people?

Maulana Tariq Jameel (HA):  (Sister) Asma, I have been roaming around in Tableegh for forty (40) years and we make contact from peon to a King! But when famous people undergo a change it comes on the Media. I am from a small town (Talamba) in Khanewal district and when Multan conquered by Raja Ranjit Singh in 1818 he created 3 brothels:

  1. Multan
  2. Talamba
  3. Khairo-Pakka

I meet daughters from there and my friends get upset that I meet prostitutes but it is the Fadhal of Allah (SWT) that so many daughters have made Taubah and gotten married and if I tell you about their lives you will not be able to withhold your tears but your program is short; all I am saying is that I meet everyone.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 11:58

Part 9 Why does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) do what he does?

On the 25th of Janaury 2014 while discussing the Taubah of Veena Malik Asma Shirazi asked Maulana (HA) on Dawn news (Live) about his live and Maulana responded.

Maulana Tariq Jameel (HA):   (Sister) Asma, I come from a wealthy family and my father sent me to Lahore (from my small town) at the age of 11 with plenty of money. So plenty of money abound I got into singing and dancing. I was a fantastic singer in my time and when the Tableeghi Jamaat people first came to my college (dorm) there were musical instruments all over the room but they said nothing about them.

I was infested with bad Akhlaaq so I kicked them out but they came back again and again.

They still said nothing about my signing etc and it was their (good) morals which embarrassed me into going out (with them).

Our work of Tableegh, no let me correct this and say our Islam teaches us to hate the sin and not the sinners.

These are our daughters in Islam. When Nargis was with me (in Hajj) there was a huge uproar even from some of our (friends) that how come Maulana (HA) has tagged someone like (Nargis) along?

Qur’aan says that our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was on the highest rank of (good) morals but this verse is actually that our Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) OVERWHELMED (good) morals that he reached (and surpassed) the highest pinnacles of (good) morals.

And this is our criteria.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 12:49
Quote:
Our work of Tableegh, no let me correct this and say our Islam teaches us to hate the sinners and not the sin.


I'm sure you/he meant it the other way round!
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 14:45

Part 10 Does Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) say that guidance is not from Sahabah and Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) but from Bani Israel? Also degrades Jihad?

Accusation:

This alleged statement is made in some books and introduced in English on Sunniforum by Shaykh (Maulana) Syed Taliban (HA) as follows:

I have heard that recently ml Tariq Jameel said in a bayan that Khulafa e Rashideen are not our guides, we won’t find guidance from Nabawi period, Badr, Uhud, Khandaq is not any daleel for us, there is nothing for us in Sahabas time.

Poof?

The clip given by Maulana no longer exists!

We can no longer listen to what Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) said and in what context etc.

Investigation of these claims?

We have nothing to go by except many opinions but I would like to quote two by well known Sunniforum members who both know Urdu, are Non-Tableeghees they listened to the clip and then said:

Shaykh (Mufti) Javed Iqbal (HA): Let's bring some balance to this discussion. Firstly, to say someone is speaking against Qur'an and Sunna is not necessarily accusing them of kufr. Secondly, being a shaykh al-hadith, big alim etc. does not mean one is inerrant and free from making mistakes. However, in the case of something wrong being said by an alim, the issue needs to be addressed properly and with decorum. Secondly [sic], Mawlana Tariq Jamil is not saying that the Khulafa Rashidun and Sahaba (radhiallahu anhum) are no longer a source of guidance for Muslims. His point is quite simply that how do you think people are going to be able to live by the example of the Sahaba (radhiallahu anhum) in Badr and other battles when our condition is similar to that of Banu Israeel? I don't think there is a need to take it out of context and suggest that Mawlana has disrespected the Sahaba (radhiallahu anhum) in any way or is saying we should discard the Sahaba (radhiallahu anhum).

Ansari (well known follower of Shaykh (Mufti) Zarwali Khan (HA): I agree with Abu Zubair. This part of Ml. Tariq Jamil can be interpreted differently. To summarize the bayan in 1 statement as "we wont find guidance from Nabawi period" is wrong. He addresses here the KACHAY muslims and only talks about jihad here and he says right away in the beginning that those who deny Jihad are denying the Qur'an. So the talk is addressed to KACHAY (simple minded) Muslims. Even Jihadi organisatin like Harkat al-Ansar would only recruite people with beards. No shaven persons were allowed to come in. What is this kacha Muslim going to do on the battlefield when he does not even pray properly, commits sins and his imaan is near to nothing? Even the Taliban stated that we have no need of emotional youngsters coming over and running away in 1 week. What they need is big money and weapons. 

 

Precedence of comparing Muslim Ummah to Bani Israel?

Although we no longer have the luxury of listening to the Bayan of Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) which initiated such fierce debate on Sunniforum and the response of others (who listened) should be sufficient nevertheless, lets assume that Shaykh (Maulana) Tariq Jameel (HA) did compare Muslims to Bani Israel indeed blatantly and clearly.

Is that a problem?

Shaykh (Maulana) Manzoor Naumani (RA) did an entire Bayan on the subject at the occasion of Eidul-Adha at Darul-uloom Nadwatul-Ulama and the English translation is available for all to read.

What;s the issue?

Acknowledgement: The reference to this book was provided by a Guest User and may Allah (SWT) give him/her the best of reward in this world and the next (Ameen).

 

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 15:02
OP updated with exact text in Arabic and the statement.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 16:00
SubhanAllah. InshaAllah this will clear a lot of misconceptions about Maulana saheb. I didnt know about a lot of the stuff mentioned in this thread before.

JazakAllahu khairan.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 9th June 2014 16:44
Post 27 updated with the reference provided by Guest Poster.

Jzk
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