Disturbing statements from Hamza Yusuf

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 08:57

mkdon101 wrote:

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You need to seriously articulate your arguments with a bit more decorum.
And Adaab. Such emotion filled outbursts are counterproductive.

As for the gist of your remarks, All celebrity Imams need to be avoided. We are probably better off finding a local Imam who is completely unknown. And seek deen from him.

Celebrity shaykhs and Ustadhas and Qaris should be treated cautiously.

If we are going to sanctify someone then sanctify the servants of the deen that have died and not those who are living.

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Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 09:48

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

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As-salam-alaykum:

Brother ibn Awf, It's nice to see you online after such a long gap.

I apologize. I don't live in the US, so I don't know much about the Shaykh (HA). From what I've seen of his videos online, I've found them to be enlightening, but obviously since I haven't had any personal interactions with him, I'm not in a position to say anything definite about him, other than just having a good opinion of him as a Muslim.

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan (HA) is very well respected among the traditional ulama here in India. Our ancestral home is very close to where Maulana (HA) is from. He has a few eccentric views, but his services to the educated class of Muslims are immense, as are his contributions to interfaith dialogue. His sons are also an asset to Indian Muslims. He is able to bring secular minded Muslims closer to Islam, and I've seen the immense benefits of that first hand in my extended family. Some deen is better than no deen at all.

In Pakistan, I would wager that Ghamidi Sahab also has a similar following among liberal and secular Muslims, those wary of traditional ulama, and he succeeds in preventing such people from falling into outright atheism. This contribution of his should likely be sufficient for his salvation, and his errors may likely be forgiven on this account.

By all of this, I don't mean to belittle traditional ulama. They are the true guardians of Islam. We should only be taking deen from them. It's just that our ulama cannot reach out to all sections of the ummah, and so we have these other personalities doing their bit for Islam, and they should be appreciated for that.

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abuzayd2k

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 10:07

abuzayd2k wrote:

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Some Christians are also doing well in refuting atheism so that should be enough for their salvation. Such a misguided approach this is! Naudhubillah.

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الإسلامُ یَعْلُو وَلَا یُعْلیٰ

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:12

bint e aisha wrote:

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Again, I'm sorry to have offended you. I clearly do not know what I'm talking about, so i take back whatever was offensive in my previous post.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:31

abuzayd2k wrote:

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hbr.org/amp/2016/11/the-4-types-of-ineffective-apologies

Offended me? No, you posted something that can misguide others into believing that certain things are enough for their salvation.

"I clearly do not know what I'm talking about" - you actually do know what you're talking about. Stop feigning ignorance please. Show some characteristics of a Muslim with integrity.

"so i take back whatever was offensive in my previous post." - tells me all about the sincerity of your apology. I don't need your apologies, ok?

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الإسلامُ یَعْلُو وَلَا یُعْلیٰ

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:37

bint e aisha wrote:

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As salamu alayna wa ala ibadillahis saliheen.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:42

bint e aisha wrote:

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For a Muslim, the smallest Deed can be salvation. For a Mushrik, all the good Deeds in the world can't. You can't compare the two for any action or Deed.

There's a lot about reckoning we can't comprehend. We don't know anyone's intentions for their actions so we should be right inbetween hopeful and fearful.

On its own there's nothing wrong with what abuzayd said if the person he's talking about has Imaan.

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Yasin

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:49

abuzayd2k wrote:

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Walaykum Salaam.

I am well aquainted with Maulana Wahidudin Khan. He has many deviant views and many scholars have given fatwas against him.

Similarly Javed Ghamidi he has many fatwas against him. And none of the traditional Ulemah in Pakistan support him. He had to seek asylum in Sweden.

Yes Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is eloquent and mesmerising in his speech , and Maulana Wahidudin Khan is a hypnotic writer. And Javed Ghamidi is charming to the secularised and the liberals.

But all three need to be avoided. As for Maulana Wahidudin Khan and Javed Ghamidi if you search you will find threads on both and no they are not just minor mistakes that they have made.

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Abdur Rahman ibn Awf

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 11:50

Yasin wrote:

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Please read more about the beliefs of Ghamidi.

drnaumanshad.com/index.php/2016/06/17/fitnah-of-mr-javed-...

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الإسلامُ یَعْلُو وَلَا یُعْلیٰ

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:22

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:

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Thank you for your quick reply.

I am absolutely 100% in agreement with you that we should not be taking our deen from the likes of Ghamidi Sahab, Maulana Wahiduddin Khan (HA), and Shaykh Hamza (HA), and only stick to our traditional ulama. My point was only this, that there is some good in what they are doing, and some people are benefiting from their work. You may disagree with this, and you have every right to your opinion, because you are obviously older than me and have more experience in these matters than I do. My post was only about a Muslim having a good opinion of his fellow Muslim.

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abuzayd2k

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:23

Maulana Nadeemul Wajidi's refutation of Wahiduddin Khan

www.muftisays.com/forums/55-members-research-group/11615-...

The Truth Concerning the Beliefs of Wahiduddin Khan
www.discussworldissues.com/forums/islam/249826-truth-conc...

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Rajab

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:27

Javed Ahmed Ghamidi se ikhtilaf kyu?

youtu.be/JsVchnPhAlE

youtu.be/F7jwYGWFqTc

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Rajab

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:28

Please stop feigning ignorance then apologising.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:32

bint e aisha wrote:

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I don't deny what you said. It's perfectly fine to assume salvation for anyone with Imaan based on even the smallest of Deeds. We only need a few stories of forgiveness to realise how judgemental we are when there's only one judge. Yes `taking Deen from` is another matter. There's no dispute in hating actions, beliefs and any wrong or evil a person may stand for but there's nothing misguided in hoping for salvation due to the smallest of deeds even for a sinner.
Loading Hadeeth

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Yasin

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 28th February 2021 12:38

Rajab wrote:

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As salam alaykum.

Honestly, I'm lost.

If my posts are inappropriate, please report them, and admin/mods will censor them.

If I try to deescalate by apologizing, it just seems to make things worse. Please tell me what I should be doing. I will say whatever needs to be said so that this does not turn into a debate. Please give me the exact words you're looking for, and I will say those exact words. I am not here to ruffle feathers and upset people. If I end up doing that, please realize it is completely unintentional.

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