Forum Menu - Click/Swipe to open
 

Ash'ari and Deobandi/ Maturidis

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Appreciate
Topic Appreciation
abu mohammed
Rank Image
sister-in-islam's avatar
Offline
westmidlands
857
Sister
470
sister-in-islam's avatar
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2010 22:58
Deobandis and Marturidis

by Moulana Imraan Vawda



Introduction

Of recent, the so-called Salafi sect have declared the followers of the Ulama of Deoband to be out of the pale of Islam on the basis of them being Marturidis.

Who are the Marturidis?

The beliefs of Islam are quite clear, as expounded in the Quran and Sunnah, and as understood by the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). It is this set of simple beliefs that are the fundamentals of Imaan. Whoever adheres to these straight-forward Aqaaid is considered a Muslim and one who rejects any of the essential beliefs of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum) is out of Islam. It is this set of simple beliefs that is the criterion of whether a person is Muslim or not.

As Islam spread far and wide, many of the works of Greek philosophy were translated into Arabic. Muslims were for the first time exposed to the rational theology of the Greeks. This created a climate where arguments for and against Islamic beliefs were examined in the light of Greek rational thought. This gave birth to a new discipline called Ilmul Kalam.

Thus Ilmul Kalam was not a purely Islamic discipline, having not existed during the time of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). It was a branch of knowledge that arose out of the need of the time, i.e. the need to refute Greek theology on the basis of rational principles.

In the process of examining Islamic beliefs on the basis of Greek philosophy, many new questions arose. These delicate and intricate questions were never posed before, nor were they discussed during the age of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). There were no explicit texts of the Quran and Sunnah in reply to these intricate questions.

Discussions around these intricate issues led to the formation of many groups. In this field of knowledge the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah were represented by two Ulama, Imaam Abul Hasan Ashari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi (Rahimahumallah). They successfully covered these delicate issues in their discourses, and clarified the standpoint of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah in these matters. Thus, as far as Ilmul Kalam is concerned, the outlook of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is confined to the works of these two Imaams of Ilmul Kalam. Allamah Haythami states in his Fatawa Hadithiyyah:

"...whoever is upon a path other than the path of Ahl al-Sunna wa l-Jama'a, Ahl al-Sunna wa l-Jama'a meaning the followers of Sheikh Abul Hasan Ash'ari and Abu Mansur Maturidi, the two Imams of Ahl al-Sunna." (Haytami, al-Fatawa al-hadithiyya, 280)
The followers of Imaam Abu Mansoor Marturidi are called Marturidi. The Ulama of Deoband are Marturidi.

While these two Imaams differed on minor issues, it was merely a difference of interpretation, for the subject matter of Ilmul Kalam is rational thought, which itself allows for differences of interpretation.

Salafis and Marturidis

At the very outset it should be stated the Salafis possess very shallow knowledge. They lack depth and understanding, and are extremely hasty in rejecting that which they cannot understand, or rather, do not wish to understand.

The Salafis have taken some of the statements of these two Imaams (Imaam Abul Hasan Ashari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi - Rahimahumallah) and misinterpreted them on the basis of their superficial knowledge. They have thus decreed these two to be out of the pale of Islam (May Allah Ta'ala save us from such evil).

Secondary Nature

The issues discussed by these two Imaams are of a secondary nature. They are issues of rational thought, and not issues of the basic and simple Aqaaid of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum). Since there exists no clear cut texts of the Quran and Hadith on these issues, differences in these issues do not render one out of Islam, provided one adheres to the Aqaaid of the Sahaabah (Radhiyallahu unhum).

The Challenge

If the followers of the Ulama of Deoband are to be regarded as apostates on the basis of them following Imaam Abu Mansoor Al Marturidi (Rahimahullah), then we challenge the Salafis to declare all those illustrious Ulama (past and present) who followed him to be apostates as well. The result will be that a major portion of the heritage of the Ulama of Islam will have to be thrown in the waste bin.

Salafis and Barelvis

If the Salafis continue at their present rate of Takfeer (declaring others as kaafir), they will soon resemble the Barelvis who declare almost everyone beside themselves to be kaafir. Thus, besides this handful of misguided souls, everyone of earth are out of Islam. May Allah Ta'ala save us from such misguidance.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Moulana Imraan Vawda, www.ask-imam.com
for: FATWA DEPT.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
shining light's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
738
Brother
311
shining light's avatar
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2010 23:12
Good article..but is it posted in the right topic i.e Maududi?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 10:23
Should definitely be another topic...i.e.

Abul Hasan As'hari & Abul Mansoor Maturidi

Not many people ordinary know about them and the Salafis tend to mention them and cause confusion
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 10:24
sorry spelling mistake..should be Ash'ari
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sister-in-islam's avatar
Offline
westmidlands
857
Sister
470
sister-in-islam's avatar
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 10:32

shining light wrote:
Good article..but is it posted in the right topic i.e Maududi?


shining light post it where you think its appropriate.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
shining light's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
738
Brother
311
shining light's avatar
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 12:26
Done!..topic has been split and renamed.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 16:05
I do apologise for being fussy about the spelling in the title but i'm almost sure that the spelling is Maaturidi and thats how i've heard it said as well.

Also i would like to mention that the title should have Ash'ari along with Maaturidi rather than Deobandi (even though the Hanafi/Deobandis follow Imam Maaturidi's aqeedah). On the whole the Salafis have a problem with the Ahlu Sunnah wal Jamaa'at saying we follow either Ash'ari or Maaturidi and not just that Deobandis follow Imam Maaturidi...I may be wrong of course but this is how i've understood it
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
shining light's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
738
Brother
311
shining light's avatar
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 15th April 2010 21:22
Hows that ..although your pronunciation of maaturidis is correct its commonly not spelled with double a,i have left the Deobandi's as that's what sisters article is about,the salafi's declaring the followers of the Ulama of Deoband to be out of the pale of Islam on the basis of them being Marturidis.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 16th April 2010 09:28
jazakallah for considering my suggestion..sorry i know i'm a fusspot about detail
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
shining light's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
738
Brother
311
shining light's avatar
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 16th April 2010 09:48
Hey its ok..together we work as a team inshallah..honestly i don't mind.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sister-in-islam's avatar
Offline
westmidlands
857
Sister
470
sister-in-islam's avatar
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 19th April 2010 23:47
asha'irah and Maturidis are they Ahlu sunnah?

please can you tell me is deoband same sect as Ahlu sunnah Wal jamaah?or are there difference between them.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2010 12:37
ABOUT THE IMAMS OF AQEEDAH

Q. Who are Imam Abu Mansoor al Maaturidi and Imam Abul Hasan al Ash'ari?

This is an often asked question and the reply is as follows:

To believe in the set of beliefs (Aqeedah) as expounded in the Qur'an and Sunnah and as understood by the Companions, is a prerequisite for a person to be a Muslim. This is a set of quite clear and simple beliefs. However, as Islam spread, Muslims were exposed to other cultures and heritages, Greek philosophy being one of them and Muslims were exposed for the first time to the rational theology of the Greeks. It gave rise to a discipline called 'Ilmul Qalaam which had not existed during the time of the Prophet s or his illustrious Companions. This branch of knowledge therefore arose out of the need of the time as a climate was created where arguments for and against Islamic beliefs were examined in the light of Greek rational thought. Many delicate and intricate questions arose for which there were no clear texts of the Qur'an and Sunnah and discussions on these issues led to the formation of many groups.

In this regard it was Imam al Maaturidi and Imam al Ash'ari who represented the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah and they clarified the position held by the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah in their discourses. It is in regard to the issues of 'Ilmul Qalaam that the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah follow these two Imams.

A point often mentioned is the fact that they differed from each other. They did differ on minor issues of interpretation, however the subject of 'Ilmul Qalaam is rational thought which in itself allows for differences of opinion.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
ummi taalib's avatar
Unspecified
2,180
Sister
2,605
ummi taalib's avatar
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2010 12:43
Deoband is a place in India where there is a Darul 'uloom and their graduates (the Ulama who study and teach there) are known as Deobandi Ulama (includes many of our great pious predecessors). Their teachings are based on the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. Therefore if anyone says they are of Deobandi thought they are in fact Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah....hope this helps insha Allah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
shining light's avatar
Offline
Unspecified
738
Brother
311
shining light's avatar
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 20th April 2010 21:26
Bismihi Ta'ala

The Deobandis represent the Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah. Their beliefs are in accordance to the Qur'an and Sunnah. In creed they follow a combination of the Matureedi and Ash'ari Schools of theology, and in Islamic Law they follow the Hanafi School.

If a person wishes to understand more about the Deobandi Creed then it is advisable to refer to the small but valuable book written By Imam Abu Ja'far Tahawi, known as Al-Aqeedah Al-Tahawiyyah.

-------------------------------------- Mufti Yaseen Shaikh Sahib

www.muftisays.com/qa/question/442/deobandis.html



Bismillah

Assalamu alaikum,

Ulama of Deoband

A:1)

You will find in history that during the British colonial rule of India between 1864 CE to 1867. A mass genocide took place against the ulama of India perpetrated by the British colonial rule. Thereafter only a handful of ulama remained in India. In 1867, not a single madrasa was left in its original state. In 1608 when they first came to India, it is recorded that there were more than a thousand madrasa in just the city of Delhi. They bulldozed over Shah Waliullah (RA) madrasa raheemiyya and demolished it. No madrasa remained in 1867 CE. The ?Ulama? were being extinct. In this trial and tribulation (fitna) Hadhrat Muhammad Qasim Nanotwi (RA) saw the messenger (SAW) in his dream, ordering him to lay down the foundation of a madrasa in the village of Deoband. Thereafter Hadhrat Manotwi (RA) in accordance to the prophet?s glad tidings laid the foundation of a madrasa beneath a pomegranate tree in the village of Deoband in the year 1866 CE. This madrasa is known as Darul Uloom Deoband and its graduates are known as the Ulama Deoband. For full detail refer to a short book ?Who are the Ulama of Deoband? By the late molana Zia-ur-Rahman Farooqi

(i dont know about the situation of taweez being practised in the indian subcontinent, if the question is about its permissibility then i can fully answer that question. )

A:2)

Ulama Deoband are Ahlul- haq because they are upon the Creed of ahlu-sunnah wal jamaah. Since deobandi ulama came they always fought against falsehood. To find out our Aqeedah refer to a short book named Aqeedah At-tahawiyah of Imaam Tahawi رضي الله عنه. There are some who have slandered our Imaam abu hanifa of being a heretic with their shallow knowledge & ignorance etc. Some have even gone to extreme by declaring deobandi Ulama murtads. But Deobandi Ulama have always answered to these slanders. May Allah keep the work and effort of ulama deoband in combating against falsehood and showing the path of guidance till Qiyamah.

Answered: Moalana Habib

And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best.

--------------------------------------

Moulana Qamruz Zaman London, UK

www.muftisays.com/qa/question/464/deobond.html --------------------------------------------------







Sacrifices by Ulema-e-Deoband

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v-IZ-z-VRM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=13MOwL8gXwk
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top
Rank Image
sister-in-islam's avatar
Offline
westmidlands
857
Sister
470
sister-in-islam's avatar
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 21st April 2010 08:50

ummi taalib wrote:
Deoband is a place in India where there is a Darul 'uloom and their graduates (the Ulama who study and teach there) are known as Deobandi Ulama (includes many of our great pious predecessors). Their teachings are based on the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. Therefore if anyone says they are of Deobandi thought they are in fact Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah....hope this helps insha Allah


thank you sister,i am getting to understand a little about sects,but why another name for Ahlus sunnah wal jamaa'ah,dosent that just create another sect?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
back to top