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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:57

The Holy Qur'�n says:

No believer, neither man nor woman, has a right, when All�h and His Messenger decide a matter, to have a choice in their matter in issue. And whoever disobeys All�h and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (33:36)

Here, the decisions of All�h and the Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) both have been declared binding on the believers.

It is worth mentioning that the word "and" occuring between "All�h" and "His Messenger" carries both conjunctive and disjunctive meanings. It cannot be held to give conjunctive sense only, because in that case it will exclude the decision of All�h unless it is combined with the decision of the messenger- a construction too fallacious to be imagined in the divine expression.

The only reasonable construction, therefore, is to take the word "and" in both conjunctive and disjunctive meanings. The sense is that whenever All�h or His Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), any one or both of them, decide a matter, the believers have no choice except to submit to their decisions.

It is thus clear that the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) has the legal authority to deliver decisions in the collective and individual affairs of the believers who are bound to surrender to those decisions.

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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:59

The Holy Qur'�n says:

Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, refrain from it. (59:7)

Although the context of this verse relates to the distribution of the spoils of war, yet it is the well-known principle of the interpretation of the Holy Qur'�n that, notwithstanding the particular event in which a verse is revealed, if the words used are general, they are to be construed in their general sense; they cannot be restricted to that particular event.

Keeping in view this principle, which is never disputed, the verse gives a general rule about the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) that whatever order he gives is binding on the believers and whatever thing he forbids stands prohibited for them. The Holy Qur'�n thus has conferred a legal authority to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) to give orders, to make laws and to enforce prohibitions.

It will be interesting here to cite a wise answer of 'Abdull�h ibn Mas'�d (radiallaahu 'anh), the blessed companion of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), which he gave to a woman.

A woman from the tribe of Asad came to 'Abdullah ibn Mas'�d (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and said, "I have come to know that you hold such and such things as prohibited. I have gone through the whole Book of All�h, but never found any such prohibition in it."

'Abdullah ibn Mas'�d (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) replied, "Had you read the Book you would have found it. All�h Almighty says: "Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, refrain from it." (59:7). (Ibn M�jah)

By this answer 'Abdullah ibn Mas'�d pointed out that this verse is so comprehensive that it embodies all the orders and prohibitions of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and since the questioned prohibitions are enforced by the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) they form part of this verse, though indirectly.

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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:01

The Holy Qur'�n says:

But no, by your Lord, they shall not be (deemed to be) believers unless they accept you as judge in their disputes, then find in their hearts no adverse feeling against what you decided, but surrender to it in complete submission. (4:65)

The authority of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) established in this verse seems apparently to be an authority to adjudicate in the disputes brought before him. But after due consideration in the construction used here, this authority appears to be more than that of a judge. A judge, no doubt, has an authority to deliver his judgments, but the submission to his judgments is not a condition for being a Muslim. If somebody does not accept the judgment of a duly authorized judge, it can be a gross misconduct on his part, and a great sin, for which he may be punished, but he cannot be excluded from the pale of Isl�m on this score alone. He cannot be held as disbeliever.

On the contrary, the verse vehemently insists that the person who does not accept the verdicts of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) cannot be held to be a believer. This forceful assertion indicates that the authority of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is not merely that of a customary judge. The denial of his judgments amounts to disbelief. It implies that the verdicts of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) referred to here are not the normal verdicts given in the process of a trial. They are the laws laid down by him on the basis of the revelation, recited or unrecited, that he receives from All�h. So, the denial of these laws is, in fact, the denial of the divine orders which excludes the denier from the pale of Isl�m.

Looked at from this point of view, this verse gives the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) not only the authority of a judge, but also confers upon him the authority to make laws, as binding on the Muslims as the divine laws.

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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:02

The Holy Qur'�n says:

They say, "we believe in All�h and the Messenger, and we obey." Then, after that, a group of them turn away. And they are not believers. And when they are called to All�h and His Messenger that he may judge between them, suddenly a group of them turn back. But if they had a right, they come to him submissively! Is it that there is sickness in their hearts? Or are they in doubt? Or do they fear that All�h may be unjust towards them, and His Messenger? Nay, but they are the unjust. All that the believers say when they are called to All�h and His Messenger that he (the Messenger) may judge between them, is that they say, "We hear and we obey." And they are those who acquire success. And whoever obeys All�h and His Messenger and fears All�h and observes His Awe, such are those who are the winners. (24:47-52)

These verses, too, hold that, in order to be a Muslim, the condition is to surrender to the verdicts of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). Those who do not turn towards him in their disputes inspite of being called to him cannot, according to the Holy Qur'�n, be treated as believers. It carries the same principle as mentioned in the preceding verse: It is the basic ingredient of the belief in All�h and His Messenger that the authority of the Messenger should be accepted whole-heartedly. He must be consulted in disputes and obeyed. His verdicts must be followed in total submission, and the laws enunciated by him must be held as binding.

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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:03

"adibgnial" wrote:

If you are rejecting quranic verses I can not continue discussing with you ,it is useless.

Are you talking to your self? You have rejected the following verses:

Surah: Verse

4:59,

24:63

4:65

8:24

4:80

4:150 - 153

http://www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/4463/submitters.html?p=29375#29375 For the verses.

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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:09

Salamun 'alaykum,
My brother I think it is useless to continue this discussion, since the verse you posted clearly concerns spoils of war and you then used hadiths and said that the prophet has a legal authority while in 6:114 GOD is the only lawmaker, and his book fully detailed as a source of laws ,if you reject this quranic verse ,I can not continue discussing with you. I noticed that the brothers are more defending their opinion then using quran and logical thinking,just keepins asking me questions and disregarding the verses I posted from quran.
I have nothing to gain if you are with quran alone as source of laws or not , I just did what I consider a duty of believer by sharing the verses (6:114;21:73 znd 16:123) ,but apparently none care if something is GOD's words or not . Therefore it is useless to keep discussing ,each one will stay at the same place.I respect of course the other opinions and the freedom of choice. Take care!

(I have answered this argument in a previous post, obeying the prophet is obeying the verse 6:114 since it came out from his mouth.Take care!)

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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:51

Salamun 'alaykum,
last post just to answer Abou Muhammad.I follow GOD ,I said that some hadiths are against hadiths to show you that hadiths are contradicting themselves(and to answer muslimah247 challenge).Who has to make up his mind ? Take care!

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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 15:54

Why do you accept some hadith and not others?

"Do not write (what you hear) from me, and whoever has written something (he heard) from me, he should erase it. Narrate to others (what you hear) from me; and whoever deliberately attributes a lie to me, he should prepare his seat in the Fire. "[Sahih Muslim]

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"Indeed, by the Remembrance of Allah do hearts find peace." (Chapter 13, verse 28)

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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 16:05

Era Of The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam)

During the life of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) there was no pressing need to write down all of his various statements or record his actions because he was present and could be consulted at any time. As a matter of fact, the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) himself made a general prohibition against writing down his statements which were other than the Qur'aan itself (Saheeh Muslim, zuhd, 72. This is the only authentic hadeeth on the topic and al-Bukhaaree and others considered it to be a statement of Aboo Sa'eed himself that was erroneously attributed to the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam). See Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, p. 28.).

This was to prevent the possibility of mixing up the Qur'aan with his own words during the era of revelation. Consequently, the greatest stress regarding writing was placed on recording the Qur'aanic verses. However, there are many authentic narrations collected by the Scholars of Hadeeth that prove that Hadeeth were recorded in writing even during the lifetime of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam). For example, 'Abdullaah ibn 'Amr رضي الله عنه said: "I used to write everything which I heard from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) with the intention of memorizing it. However, some Qurayshites forbade me from doing so saying, 'Do you write everything that you hear from him, while the Messenger of Allaah is a human being who speaks in anger and pleasure?' So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam). He pointed with his finger to his mouth and said: 'Write! By Him in whose hand is my soul, only truth comes out from it.' (Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, p. 1035, no. 3639 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3099. The collection of Hadeeth of 'Abdullaah ibn 'Amr is known as as-Saheefah as- Saadiqah.)

Aboo Hurayrah رضي الله عنه said: When Makkah was conquered, the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) stood up and gave a sermon [Aboo Hurayrah then mentioned the sermon]. A man from Yemen, called Aboo Shaah got up and said, "O Messenger of Allaah! Write it down for me." The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) replied, "Write it for Aboo Shaah." (Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, no. 3641 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3100.)

Al-Waleed رضي الله عنه asked Aboo 'Amr رضي الله عنه, "What are they writing?" He replied, "The sermon which he heard that day." (Ibid., vol. 3 no. 3642 and authenticated Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3101)

Aboo Qaabeel رضي الله عنه said: We were with 'Abdullaah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'Aas رضي الله عنه and he was asked which city will be conquered first Constantinople or Rome? So 'Abdullaah called for a sealed trunk and he said, "Take out the book from it." Then 'Abdullaah said, "While we were with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) writing, The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) was asked, "Which city will be conquered first, Constantinople or Rome?" So Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said: "The city of Heracilius will be conquered first," meaning Constantinople." (Saheeh: Musnad Ahmad (2: 176), Sunan ad-Daarimee (1: 126) and Mustadrak al Haakim (3: 422).)

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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 16:08

I don't think he has any answers to any questions. All he does is repeats one verse which doesn't even prove what he's trying to prove.

All Shaytaanic groups and religions do similar things from Qadiyanis to the likes of the poets who tried to write their own Qur'aan's.

The religion (Quranists, submitters or Ahlul-Qur'aan which is ironic) are according to some out of the boundaries of Islam as their Kalimah is "Laa Ilaaha Ilaalah" only. They do not believe Muhammad to be the last Messenger nor do they believe in the Qur'aan fully as they reject the verses that Seif posted.

Can this topic be concluded now or does anyone want to add anything or correct anything I've typed above?

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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 18:11

The topic can be concluded inshaAllah as it it is apparent that he is in A BIG DNIAL.

There is ample evidence here to prove the point of Ahle Sunnah wal jama'ah with regards to the Ahle Quran, pervezis, 19ers, Submitters, etc. There is plenty more evidence to come if needed.

But as sister-in-islam rightly pointed out in the first few posts, they are not Muslim.

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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 29th December 2011 13:58

MashaAllah, we have had all sorts of people coming for a challenge.

They have all failed Alhumdulillah.

I noticed a few changes in some of the posts, (at least 6), it would be worth a second recap.

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Ahmed ibn Hanbal said, "If in any matter there is agreement between three people, then one pays no attention to the verdict of anyone who disagrees with them." Someone asked him, "Who are they?" He answered, "Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad ibn al-Hasan.
As-Samani / kitab al-ansab.

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