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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 03:00

This prohibition is of a temporary nature when the Quran was initially being revealed (and there was a possibility of the hadith and Quran being mixed up) so that the hadith and the Quran do not get mixed up. When this initial period has passed and this possibility was ruled out, this prohibition ceased and an order was given to write and record the Ahaadith as Allama Ibne-Hajar has detailed in his commentary on Bukhari Shareef. Allama Nawawi
in the commentary of Muslim Shareef has stated that the prohibition was when the mixing was feared. Thereafter when it was safe, permission was granted for writing. (www.islam.tc)

So

Why don't we have any record of early Muslims completely rejecting hadith? i.e the sahabah, tabi, tabe tabi

There are collections of hadith from Hadhrat Ali, Abdullah ibn Amr, Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masood , Abu hurayrah (radhiallahu anhum) and more

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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 03:09

Salamun 'alaykum,
The risk of a mix between quran and hadith is what we witness now,when people put hadith as a source of laws beside Quran ,but the record I showed you was crystal clear, and your answer lacks logic, since quran was written and memorised apart.
Also look at the 5 others records that I have posted before, proving that this order from the prophet Muhammad was not temporary

Again :

(2) From Ibn Hanbal;

Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiyah (more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Mu'aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said. " the messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his hadith".

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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 03:19

adibgnial wrote:

Salamun 'alaykum,
The verse said wipe your head, so it is your whole head,if it was only one part GOD would have specified this part.
Concerning,the translation why not wiping the feet,it is because of the diacritics ,in arabic it is "arjulakum" not "arjulikum" so this is the "maf'oul bih" of the verb wach,not the verb wipe.
About "taharra" this word means purification ,and in the context of physical purification ,attaining physical purification in general means purifying the whole body,this is exactly the meaning of bathing,unlike ablution with only some parts of the body.

Problems with your answer which isn't really an answer to any of my queries. Let me explain and ask again:
1) Okay so you answered that it's whole head. Do you wipe your entire head? Top, sides and back when doing wudhu? Do you cover it all wiping as GOD did not say part of the head, he said head.

2) I did not say wiping the feet as I know Arabic grammar and which Maf'ool Bihi belongs to which order (Amr). I asked where did you get the translation of WIPING when "Imsahoo" means "To Rub" - clearly someone has explained to you why it refers to wiping so whoever told you it's wiping, what is their source (in the Qur'aan)?

3) One can attain physical purification by washing the entire private parts too. The body might have already been 100% clean until one became impure. So by washing the private parts alone, a person has attained physical purification so how did you deduce or come to the conclusion that it refers to bathe? Is that just your opinion or is that the opinion of someone else? Because from the Qur'aan alone, you have not proven why it refers to bath. You just explain what it means generally which is not even the case here.

Once again, please answer all 3 above from the QUR'AAN only. Not from geneal human actions. You said soil is soil and clean is clean so how is purification not purification generally and here it suddenly means bath?

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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 03:36

Salamun 'alaykum,
At the very beginning I said that the salat came to us from Abraham 21:73 himself and his children teached it to the people , and imams after them keeps teaching salat, even the prophet Muhammaf was commanded to follow the religion of Abraham in 16:123.
Ablution is part of salat, and Quran confirms the 4 steps teached by Abraham,and even now all the other steps are called sunna and are optionnal. Salat is visual,you must learn it from someone like in 21:73 people learn it from Abraham, quran only confirms some of its details.

The order "ittaharou" is general ,GOD does not mention private parts , "ittaharou" alone means purify yourself,therefore your whole body. The verb "masaha" can be translated to wipe or rub as well,the result is the same.

Your point 3 has its answer as well, since the verb "ittaharou" is an order to execute it without arguing that some parts are already clean,the verb is general as I said(no specification of part),therefore it concerns the whole body.Like for example when GOD talks about salat without specifying wich salat, that means all the salat in general.

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 11:03

"adibgnial" wrote:

Quran was transmitted generation after generation thru huffads till now, and also there are many old mushafs ,all of them contains the same words in the same order.

As you rightly say, Quran was transmitted generation to generation through Huffaz. So does that not mean that the original transmission came from Allah to Gabriel To Prophet Muhammad SAW. and sometimes from Allah direct to Prophet Muhammad SAW.

If thats the case, The Prophet then recited the Quran to his followers who in turn learnt it by heart. So technically is this not Hadith? (As the Quran was learnt via the speech if the Prophet)

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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 12:59

Quote:

At the very beginning I said that the Salat came to us from Abraham 21:73 himself and his children teached it to the people , and imams after them keeps teaching salat, even the Prophet Muhammaf was commanded to follow the religion of Abraham in 16:123.
Ablution is part of salat, and Quran confirms the 4 steps teached by Abraham,and even now all the other steps are called sunna and are optionnal. Salat is visual,you must learn it from someone like in 21:73 people learn it from Abraham, quran only confirms some of its details. [/quote]

So basically, the prophets taught Salaah and not the book of Allah? - Thank you that's all I wanted to hear. You just denied your own faith

Quote:

The order "ittaharou" is general ,GOD does not mention private parts , "ittaharou" alone means purify yourself,therefore your whole body. The verb "masaha" can be translated to wipe or rub as well,the result is the same.

You did not answer my question again. How does "Purify yourself" mean "Wash/bathe" - there's no indication towards it nor does it mean bathe in the context of the sentence either. Earlier, it's clear Hands/Arms, Face, Head, Feet were clearly in words (or as you say "CRYSTAL CLEAR") but here it does not say BODY so HOW do you conclude it means BODY and BATHE?

[quote]The verb "masaha" can be translated to wipe or rub as well,the result is the same.

So according to you, rubbing my head with dry hands is sufficient and my Wudhu is done? Because the Qur'aan does not say wipe or pass wet hands. It just says "Rub your head"

From what I see, your methods are changing from post to post because you interpret the Qur'aan how you've been told and not from the Qur'aan itself.

After answering the above, maybe you can answer the following too frm Qur'aan only (number it):

1) How many Salaah are there?
2) Do they have names? What are they?
3) How many Rak'aat are there in all the Salaah?
4) What is ONE Rak'ah?
5) How does one commence Salaah?
6) What is read immediately after that?
7) How does a person do Rukoo?
8) What does one read in Rukoo?
9) What time should each of the Salaah be read?

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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:06

Salamun 'alaykum,
It is strange that after showing you the verse 21:73 saying that the method of salat and zakat were inspired to Abraham and his sons, who were imams teaching people,and that in 16:123 the prophet Muhammad is commanded to follow "millat ibrahim" milla means way of practice , and that therefore salat and zakat are older than quran,you are still arguing .
As for wiping and rubing, I said the result is the same, since you wash your hands just before rubbing your head , you are wiping your head.
The details of salat are very well known without any hadith, because as I said GOD's system in 21:73 is that your learn it from someone who already know how to pray and this system preserved salat. GOD reminds some details in quran to correct errors past or future, for example in the past the people of prophet Muhammad were praying yet ,their salat is nil because of their idol-worship,that is why GOD reminds us after mentionning Abraham our father who called us muslims that he is monotheist,never was an idolworshipper. For the errors after the time of quran ,other verses give the correction for example the tone of prayers nowadays is loud or silent for men depending on the prayer ,but GOD knew in advance that people will do this error,that is why he corrected it in 17:110 :

17:110 قل ادعوا الله او ادعوا الرحمن ايا ما تدعوا فله الاسماء الحسني ولا تجهر بصلاتك ولا تخافت بها وابتغ بين ذلك سبيلا

[17:110] Say, "Call Him GOD, or call Him the Most Gracious; whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names." You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone.

After showing you the quranic verses again and again and again (6:114 ; 21:73 ;16:123) you are still arguing not against me but against your creator and his messenger who delivered thi quran .

16:4 خلق الانسن من نطفه فاذا هو خصيم مبين

[16:4] He created the human from a tiny drop, then he turns into an ardent opponent.

In quran we found the expression "millat ibrahim" or the religion of Abraham (millat is specifically way of practice), and we are commanded to follow it, we are also commanded to followthe quran that the prophet Muhammad delivered ,but nowhere we are commanded to follow "sunnat Muhammad" or "Hadith Muhammad".

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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:18

"adibgnial" wrote:

SubhanAllah, you deny any Hadith attributed to the Porphet SAW, yet you are a stuck on the method of Hadhrat Ibrahim AS.

When you finish with Maulana Yasins Questions, Can you please provide me with your chain of narration back to Hadhrat Ibrahim AS. (by the way, I'm sure it includes the Prophet and his companions)

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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:25

Salamun 'alaykum,
It is not a matter of chain of narration , GOD in 6:114 says that quran is the only source of religious laws.
So we look at quran seeking the law about salat,and we find in 21:73 that GOD's system is that Abraham and his sons were inspired how to pray,then teached to people, and in 16:123 the prophet Muhammad is commanded to follow the way of practice of Abraham "millat ibrahim".At the same time, we do not find in quran something called "sunnat Muhammad" or "hadith Muhammad".
Please brothers stop arguing for arguing, and use your mind you will find it crystal clear ,and the verses 21:73 ; 16:123 and 6:114 are not my words : they are GOD's words , or you do not believe that quran is the word of GOD ?

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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:26

Once again you failed to answer www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/4463/subm... what you're telling me doesn't explain how I can give the Qur'aan to a non-Muslim and say "This is you Deen" - follow Islam from this ONLY and NEVER look at Hadeeth for explanations of Qur'aan.

Please answer www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/4463/subm... and abu Mohammed's question in red.

PS. The Qur'aan says "Ibraheem" yet you saying ABRAHAM. When you can't do something as simple as pronounce a prophet's name, how can anyone expect you to understand the Qur'aan at all?

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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:34

Salamun 'alaykum,
Abraham because I am writing in english, you are the one who failed,just give someone hadiths and let him alone to learn religion ,your proof is weak ,I have given you the clear verses ,yet(21:73;16:123;6:114) you are against them ,so you are rejecting quran.
You have failed to find the expression "sunnat Muhammad" in quran yet I gave hadiths saying that hadiths are forbidden.
The truth is clear and the falsehood is clear ,you will continue to reject the three verses mentionned above ,if this is your destiny untill death ,this is really sad. You deny quranic verses ,and even hadiths saying that hadiths are to be erased! You are simply denying everything and want to impose your idear at any price disregarding simple logic ! If you are rejecting quranic verses I can not continue discussing with you ,it is useless.

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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:49

"adibgnial" wrote:

At the same time, we do not find in quran something called

We never said those specific words ("sunnat Muhammad" or "hadith Muhammad") were in the Qur'aan.

You have rejected ALL THE VERSES in Seif's post and more http://www.muftisays.com/forums/members-research-group/4463/submitters.html?p=29319#29319

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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:53

The Prophet's (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) Authority to Make Laws

A number of verses in the Holy Qur'�n establish the authority of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) as a legislator or a law-maker. Some of those are reproduced below:

And My mercy embraces all things. So I shall prescribe it for those who fear All�h and pay zak�h (obligatory alms) and those who have faith in Our signs; those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet whom they find written down in the Torah and the Inj�l, and who bids them to the Fair and forbids them the Unfair, and makes lawful for them the good things, and makes unlawful for them the impure things, and relieves them of their burdens and of the shackles that were upon them. So, those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light that has been sent down with him- they are the ones who acquire success. (7:156-157)

The emphasized words in this verse signify that one of the functions of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is "to make lawful the good things and make unlawful the impure things." This function has been separated from "bidding the Fair and forbidding the Unfair," because the latter relates to the preaching of what has already been established as Fair, and warning against what is established as Unfair, while the former embodies the making of lawful and unlawful, that is, the enforcing of new laws regarding the permissibility or prohibition of things. This function of prescribing new religious laws and rules is attributed here not to the Holy Qur'�n, but to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). It, therefore, cannot be argued that the "making lawful or unlawful" means the declaration of what is laid down in the Holy Qur'�n only, because the declaration of a law is totally different from making it.

Besides, the declaration of the established rules has been referred to in the earlier sentence separately, that is, "bids them to the Fair and forbids for them the Unfair." The reference in the next sentence, therefore, is only to "making" new laws.

The verse also emphasizes "to believe" in the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam). In the present context, it clearly means to believe in all his functions mentioned in the verse including to make something "lawful" or "unlawful."

The verse, moreover, directs to follow the light that has been sent down with him. Here again, instead of "following the Holy Qur'�n," "following the light" has been ordered, so as to include all the imperatives sent down to the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), either through the Holy Book or through the unrecited revelation, reflecting in his own orders and acts.

Looked at from whatever angle, this verse is a clear proof of the fact that the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) had an authority based, of course, on the unrecited revelation, to make new laws in addition to those mentioned in the Holy Qur'�n.

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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:53

"adibgnial" wrote:

You deny quranic verses ,and even hadiths saying that hadiths are to be erased!

How Ironic, you reject Hadith but accept the one you mention above. Make your mind up. You either accept Hadith or you Reject them. If you accept some of them, then you are following your desires. The follower of his desire, Allah tell us us that his GOD is his NAFS. So do you worship your Nafs or Allah.

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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 14:55

The Holy Qur'�n says:

Fight those who do not believe in All�h and the Hereafter and do not hold unlawful what All�h and His Messenger have made unlawful. (9:29)

The underlined words signify that it is necessary to "hold unlawful what All�h and His Messenger made unlawful," and that the authority making something unlawful is not restricted to All�h Almighty. The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) can also, by the will of All�h, exercise this authority. The difference between the authority of All�h and that of the Messenger is, no doubt, significant. The former is wholly independent, intrinsic and self-existent, while the authority of the latter is derived from and dependent on the revelation from All�h. Yet, the fact remains that the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) has this authority and it is necessary for believers to submit to it alongwith their submission to the authority of All�h.

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