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#76 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:17

Salam

1) Why don't we have any record of early Muslims completely rejecting hadith? i.e the sahabah, tabi, tabe tabi

Is this verse forgotten

And the first to lead the way, of the Muhajirin and the Ansar, and those who followed them in goodness - Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He hath made ready for them Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph. (9:100)

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This is Q1
[/quote]

2) show me only one verse from the Qu'ran that says that the method of prayer was passed down from Ibrahim (Alayhissalam) to Rasulullah (Sallalahu Alaihi Wassalam).

7) Show me anywhere the Qur'an that says how many raka's we must pray for each prayer

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This is a response to your quote. Its all about salah. Please respond

8) Where do you get this information from that zakah is 2.5%?

[quote]this is another question

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#77 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:26

Please give adibgnial a chance to reply, save the questions for later.

Jazakallah for all your efforts.

@adibgnial: please breakdown the questions and provide answers in your own time.

We know where we stand and we also know where you stand. InshaAllah with everyone's effort we pray to Allah that we all stand united together and agree on the truth.

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#78 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:38

adibgnial wrote:

Salamun 'alaykum,
Yasin at the beginning you said that you will only ask where is ablution in quran, then I gave you verse 5:6 ,but it seems that we are jumping from one question to another,while everything is crystal clear, soil is soil it is general ,and clean means clean it is crystal clear to, ablition in general includes dry ablution this is pure logic,so what breaks ablution breaks also dry ablution.

W/salam, I did not say I will only ask where is ablution, I asked "How do YOU do Wudhu"? - very different question which by the way you did not answer.

My follow up question to the above is, can you do Tayammu on lime-stone? Technically it's not soil.
Also, if stool dropped on soil but is dried up after a day in the sun, can tayammum be done with that?
Once again, Qur'aan only

In your own time, first please read above (muslimah247's post) and answer that please. The rest can be answered later. Please answer Seif's question too (wind breaking Wudhu, does it?)

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#79 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:40

@muslimah247.

Jazakallah for the PMs. I had already given Seifeddine the very same info 2 hours ago.

We all think alike.

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#80 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:48

Salamun 'alaykum,
Thanks brother Abou Muhammad, may GOD hear your prayer.
Ok let us begin with the question of Seifeddine-M, verse 5: 6 gives you the answer :

5:6 يايها الذين ءامنوا اذا قمتم الي الصلوه فاغسلوا وجوهكم وايديكم الي المرافق وامسحوا برءوسكم وارجلكم الي الكعبين وان كنتم جنبا فاطهروا وان كنتم مرضي او علي سفر او جاء احد منكم من الغايط او لمستم النساء فلم تجدوا ماء فتيمموا صعيدا طيبا فامسحوا بوجوهكم وايديكم منه ما يريد الله ليجعل عليكم من حرج ولكن يريد ليطهركم وليتم نعمته عليكم لعلكم تشكرون

[5:6] O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

A passing wind is a digestive excretion so it breaks the ablution.

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#81 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:53

Salamun 'alaykum,
Brother Yasin, my answer was verse 5:6 , this is how I do ablution.
I do not add what is called sunnan ,I only do what is called faraid and there is nothing wrong with that,even the sunnis agree that the other steps are optionnal(I consider that having GOD's steps plus Muhammad's own steps is shirk ,association,the prophet did what GOD oredered Him).
The verse says soil ,so why looking for something else and complicating your life ? GOD wants the religion to be easy ,like when he said a heifer for the children of Israel,they could have chosen any cow but they keep asking again and again,and as a result GOD gave them more difficulties.

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#82 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 01:59

please answer

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#83 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:02

Salamun 'alaykum,
Sister muslimah247, here is the verse you are talking about :

9:100 والسبقون الاولون من المهجرين والانصار والذين اتبعوهم باحسن رضي الله عنهم ورضوا عنه واعد لهم جنت تجري تحتها الانهر خلدين فيها ابدا ذلك الفوز العظيم

[color=#FF0000][9:100] As for the early vanguards who immigrated (Muhajerin), and the supporters who gave them refuge (Ansar) and those who followed them in righteousness, GOD is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. He has prepared for them gardens with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever. This is the greatest triumph.[/color]

This verse says that those who will follow the first believers in their righteousness will go to Heaven,there is no mention of following hadith or sunna in that verse.
Acting righteously is the key to Heaven :

2:62 ان الذين ءامنوا والذين هادوا والنصري والصبءين من ءامن بالله واليوم الءاخر وعمل صلحا فلهم اجرهم عند ربهم ولا خوف عليهم ولا هم يحزنون

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

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#84 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:03

my question was 1) Why don't we have any record of early Muslims completely rejecting hadith? i.e the sahabah (Radhiallahu anhu), tabi, tabe tabi

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#85 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:06

Salamun 'alaykum,
If I give you such a record would you accept it ?

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#86 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:11

Salamun 'alaykum,
Ok sister muslimah247,I think that you want it :

(1) Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said,

"Do not write anything from me except Quran. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it." [Ahmed, Vol. 1, Page 171, and Sahih Moslim, Zuhd, Book 42, Number 7147]

Some Hadith scholars tried to imply that Muhammed changed his view about writing the hadiths. However, the following hadith, which was reported 30 years after the death of the Prophet, confirms that the Prophet Muhammed never authorized the writing of the hadiths since the time he told his followers not to write but the Quran..

(2) From Ibn Hanbal;

Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiyah (more than 30 years after the Prophet's death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Mu'aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said. " the messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his hadith".

(3) The famous book, "Ulum Al-Hadith" by Ibn Al-Salah, reports a hadith by Abu Hurayra in which Abu Hurayra said the messenger of God came out to us while we were writing his hadiths and said; "What are you writing?" We said, "Hadiths that we hear from you, messenger of God." He said, "A book other than the book of God?" We said, "Should we talk about you?" He said, Talk about me, that would be fine, but those who will lie will go to Hell. Abu Hurayra said, we collected what we wrote of Hadiths and burned them in fire.

(4) In the famous book, "Taq-yeed Al-Ilm", Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God was informed that some people are writing his hadiths. He took to the pulpit of the mosque and said, "What are these books that I heard you wrote? I am just a human being. Anyone who has any of these writings should bring it here. Abu Hurayra said we collected all these and burned them in fire.

(5) Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad book, narrates a hadith in which Abdullah Ibn Omar said, "the messenger of God one day came out to us as if he was going to depart us soon and said, "When I depart you (die), hold to the book of God, prohibit what it prohibits and accept as halal what it makes halal."

(6) Again, in the book "Taq-yeed Al-Ilm", Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said, " I asked the messenger of God a permission to write his hadiths, but he refused to give me a permission."

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#87 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:19

adibgnial wrote:

Okay, how do you wipe your head (امسحوا برءوسكم)? In the Qur'aan it says wipe your head, do you wipe your entire head? Do you wipe part of your head? Whatever the conclusion or ruling according to you, please prove it from Qur'aan only.

Secondly, we do not ask and ask like the Banu Israel, nor do we neglect and change like the Nasaara. I am simply asking you what we already know through the last Messenger of Allah through the arch Angel Jibraeel from Allah (s.w.t). We believe that nothing from the Prophet was from the Prophet but it was from Allah. The Qur'aan being the recited revelation from the preserved Tablet. So, my question was simply, can you do Masah with lime-stone? Yes or No?

In relation to "Wam-Sahoo" in the verse, "امسحوا" means "Rub" - so where did you get "wipe your head" as a translation? So if I wash my face and arms and feet and then get a head massage, according to the verse ONLY, my Wudhu is complete.

Third, you translated (فاطهروا) as "If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe" - The translation for "Fattahharoo" is "then attain purification" - there's no indication or any hint whatsoever towards "bathing" so where did you get that from?

Also, if it meant bathe, was GOD not capable of saying "bathe yourselves" as he did in the same verse earlier?

Please answer ALL the above from Qur'aan only

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#88 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:24

You did answer the question. Would you then argue the early Muslims rejected the Qur'an simply because Uthman radhiallahu anhu ordered Qur'anic copies to be burnt.

1) Why don't we have any record of early Muslims completely rejecting hadith? i.e the sahabah, tabi, tabe tabi

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#89 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:52

Salamun 'alaykum,
No, the record says that the propthet Muhammad ordered to keep from him only quran and to erase anything else ,in Uthman ' s case the order was to burn all the versions of copies BUT to keep one version,then sent again the copies to the muslim world.

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#90 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2011 02:56

Salamun 'alaykum,
The verse said wipe your head, so it is your whole head,if it was only one part GOD would have specified this part.
Concerning,the translation why not wiping the feet,it is because of the diacritics ,in arabic it is "arjulakum" not "arjulikum" so this is the "maf'oul bih" of the verb wach,not the verb wipe.
About "taharra" this word means purification ,and in the context of physical purification ,attaining physical purification in general means purifying the whole body,this is exactly the meaning of bathing,unlike ablution with only some parts of the body.

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