Barelvi aka sunni

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 10:40

Salam

I would like to know regarding Barelive also call themselves sunni and Alh sunnat wal jammat the area i come from,at the moment they all hyped up celebrating the birth of the prophet (saw) which i believe to be BIDA.

There is very good reason behind my inquiry,i will reveal all in my other posts inshallah.

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O my Rabb (Cherisher and Sustainer)! Bestow wisdom on me, and join me with the righteous; grant me honorable mention on the tongue of truth among the latest (generations); make me one of the inheritors of the Garden of Bliss.�
(Qur��n 2683-84)

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 15:17

for barelwi-deobandi differences check out:

Question #: q-20524212 Darul Ifta

Below is part of the above Q/A on Darulifta regarding the celebrating of the Mawlid itself:

Below is another Fatwa authorized by Mufti Taqi Usmani (may Allah preserve him):

"The gatherings arranged to remember the birth of the Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, the mercy to the mankind, are called Milad gatherings. Remembering the life of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, and teaching others about it, is an act of great blessing and virtue. However all good deeds have to be performed according to the rules and guidelines established by the Shariah. To exceed them is a grave sin. For example reciting the Qur'an is a great act of virtue, but it is prohibited to do so while one is in ruku or sujud in prayers. Likewise, Salat is one of the most important acts of worship. Yet, it is haram to perform it at sunrise or sunset.

Similarly, there are rules governing the blessed remembrance of the Sirah. For example, this remembrance must not be associated with a particular day or month; it should be considered equally virtuous during every month of the year, every week of the month, and every day of the week. Also it can take any permissible form. For example you can arrange a reading of an authentic book on Sirah or have a lecture delivered by a scholar. Doing that is not only permissible but it will bring great reward. But it is important to stay away from the evils found in the prevalent Milad gatherings. Here are some of those evils:

1) A particular date (12 of Rabi al-Awwal) has been designated for this remembrance,

2) The element of show-off (riya) is commonly present in these gatherings,

3) If someone does not attend these gatherings, he is looked down upon,

4) Distribution of sweets is considered an indispensable part of the proceedings,

5) To meet the expenses, donations are collected from sometimes unwilling people who give money under social pressure. According to the hadith it is not permissible to take any Muslim's money without his willingness.

6) Intermixing of men and women commonly takes place in these gatherings. People stay late at night in these meetings thereby missing the next morning's prayers.

7) The focus of the talks delivered there is very limited. The Prophet, Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, has given guidance for every aspect of our life. These cover acts of worship, dealing with other people, morals and manners, social relationships, business dealings, etc. However, it has been observed that the prevalent Milad talks concentrate mainly or solely on the account of the birth of the Prophet, Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, and his miracles. They do not attempt to cover the vast teachings of the Prophet, Sallallahu alayhi wasallam.

For these reasons, one should refrain from the prevalent Milad gatherings. However, if care is taken to avoid all of these evils and to follow the Shariah carefully, then a meeting organized to remember the Prophet, Sallallahu alayhi wasallam , with the sole purpose of seeking Allah's pleasure, will Insha-Allah be a blessed event. And Allah knows best. (End of Fatwa)

Written: Muhammad Abdul Muntaqim Sylheti (Darul-Ifta, Darul-uloom Karachi) Concurrence from:

Justice Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani

Mufti Muhammad Rafi Usmani

Mufti Abdul Rauf Sakkharvi

And many others. (Source: www.albalagh.net)

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 16:48

Mashallah! i will contribute later inshallah.

ws

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 17:53

They have introduced many invented things into Islam..one of the is this Eid Milad..There are only 2 Eids in Islam Eid ul Fitr and Eid Ul Adha..mostly this sect lives off lies deceit and deception and false accusations and name calling very foul mouthed indulging shirk kufr biddah riyah.Its their aqeedah that the Prophet (s.a.w) is ALL PRESENT ALL SEEING (Hazir o Nazir).

Please read.
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/diffumm.pdf

3). THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEOBANDIS AND BARELWIS
.................................................. 17 (1). NOOR OR HUMAN? ..................................................................................................................................
18 (2). KNOWER OF THE UNSEEN .....................................................................................................................
19 (3). ALL-SEEING (Haazir-o-Naazir) .................................................................................................................
20 (4). FREE WILL AND CHOICE ........................................................................................................................
21 (5). TO CALL UPON SOMEONE OTHER THAN ALLAAH TA`ALA.................................................... 22 (6). TAWASSUL AND DUA ..........................................................................................................................
24 (6). VISITING THE GRAVES ........................................................................................................................
29 (7). SOLID GRAVES AND THEIR TOMBS ................................................................................................ 31
(8). PLACING OF CLOTH OVER THE GRAVE......................................................................................... 32
(9). TO LIGHT LAMPS AT GRAVESIDES ................................................................................................. 32
(10). TO CIRCUMABULATE (MAKE TAWAAF) AND PROSTRATE AT THE GRAVES ETC. ......... 32
(11). TO MAKE VOWS AND MAKE OFFERINGS AT THE GRAVES .................................................... 34
(12). EID MEELADUN NABI (SALLAHO ALAIHE WASSALAM).......................................................... 37

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 19:53

I've read a book written by Allamah Saeed Ahmed Qadri which is a comparative study of the Barelwi-Dobandi differences and all the points mentioned in shining light's post are discussed in detail.

I would just like to mention that when i read Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam's reply to the mawlid issue: Question #: q-20524212 Darul Ifta (part of which i posted earlier) i had to sit back and think. I'm posting another part of the same Q/A below...............

"Before explaining the Deobandi position on the Mawlid, I would like to emphasize that unfortunately many of our disputes, disagreements and arguments are due to not understanding (or not wanting to understand, should I say) the opposite party's stance on a particular issue. I have experienced this many times. This is a problem on both, the Deobandi and Barelwi, sides. Rather than find excuses for the statements of fellow Muslims and interpret them so they are justified, we force people to believe something which they themselves do not believe. In my personal experience, this is the main reason why so many Muslims are divided.

I hear some Deobandis claim that all the Barelwis believe this and that, yet when I speak to some of my Barelwi brothers about the issue, they categorically state that this is not what we believe; rather.......and then they explain their stance. The case is same with the Barelwis, in that they themselves decide for the Deobandis that agree or disagree; this is what you believe, despite the Deobandis rejecting it."................

I would be interested to know how the other members see this....

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 20:21

The barelvi brothers and sisters i know ,dont follow some of the things mentioned on the above posts.they few things they follow is millad,and believe that the prophet (saw)

is made out of light,and they present ayah from the quran regarding milad and the prophet being made out of light..i my self dont believe that the prophet is noor or the celebrating the birth is from the quran.
As for deoband i think they half believe is with barelivis and half with ALH sunna wal jammat.well thats what i think.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 21:09

Definitely the Barelwis practice certain Bid'aat and have certain incorrect beliefs i.e. the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam being "Noor" and "Haazir naazir" etc. which are against the beliefs of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah of which the Deobandi school is a part of, however my question is:

Is the Barelwi "school of tthought" regarded as part of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 21:17

Alhamdolilah i am aware of the barelwi aqeedah from people who they hold in authority and their books, some barelwi people are ignorant of what the beliefs of their founders and leaders are.Eid Milad in now more than a simple Mawlid where where people would just gather to talk on seerah of the Holy Prophet(s.a.w) This is a now 3rd Eid...being introduced.
inshallah i wont falsely accuse anyone ..there is plenty of proof if need be.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 22:13

what about Tahir qadri? his very educated what is he about i know the barelvi respect and follow him.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 22:18

MY reasons regarding barelvi is because i come from a hard core barelvi aka sunni family,all and everyone of my relatives practice millad and believe in the prophet being noor,i dont follow their aqeedah,that is why they call me Wahhabi.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 22:24

The Barelwis are not part of the Ahlus Sunnah.
Bid'ah is a distinguishing feature of this sect.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
for: Mufti Ebrahim Desai FATWA DEPT.

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=167e24cb8d9344a0a161011bcd22dafa[/url]

[url]http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=8d47b4cb9abcd2b31dd6c1fa090e78d6[/url]

[url]http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=d27ab684d1ba1515f7e4cf11f9dc2c23 ===============================================

== The offical Deobandi view on Barelwis

Assalam o alaykum, Answer: Mazhir al-Ulum

The Deobandi 'ulama who have been mentioned in the question and their students and successors all were true followers of Sunnah and they have always strictly opposed every thing categorized as bid'ah; since according to the hadith, every innovation is deviation. So they paid their exclusive attention to protect the Ummah from every divergence. There are short and lengthy books written by them and their statements and fatawa are recorded in al-Barahin, al-Muhannad 'ala al-Mufannad, al-Shihab al-Thaqib, Imdad al-Fatawa and Islah al-Rusum. In deliberate manner keeping their scholarly responsibility in view, they not only opposed the innovations of the Barelwis openly but also refuted every bid'ah they came to know about in any region. This stand of theirs was not temporary. No bid'ah can ever be Sunnah, so its refutation also may not be temporary and there is no room in religion to adopt soft stand about the same.

The elders opposed the bid'ah and fought the innovators so powerfully that due to their efforts, millions of people repented from the acts of bid'ah and attached themselves with Sunnah.

Now, if anyone says that we should not demonstrate strictness in opposing bid'ah or they should be adopted as compromise, such a person is not Deobandi though he claims to be associated with the elders of Deoband. Hadhrat Shaykh al-Hadith Mawlana Muhammad Zakariyya (may Allah sanctify his grave) was a staunch Deobandi, he did not allow even the slightest diversion from the maslak of his elders. His entire life and works bear witness to the same. One who attributes to him soft stand towards bid'ah is not true in his words.

The word 'Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah' is applied to the Ashayirah and Maturidiyyah. Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi and his group are in no way connected with both of them. Ahmad Raza Khan believes that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) knew every matter of ghayb or he was entrusted discretion [tasarruf] in all matters, but such beliefs are not held by Ashayirah and Maturidiyyah, neither they find mention in the books of 'aqaid nor in the books of theologian. These things are opposed to the Qur'an and Hadiths clearly; these are innovations of these Barelwis. So, if anyone regards the Barelwi sect from Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah then this is his clear error.

We, the undersigned, want to make it clear to all Muslims that we strictly follow the Deobandi maslak which we received from senior elders; we do not allow any kind of softness in this regard.

Muhammad Salman, Deputy Nazim

Abd al-Rahman, Mufti Mazahir al-Ulum

Muhammad Aaqil, Sadar al-Mudarrisin

Maqsud Ali, Mufti Mazahir al-Ulum

============================================== ==============================================

The offical Deobandi view on Barelwis

Assalam o alaykum,

Answer: (by Mufti Saeed Ahmad Palanpuri, Deoband)

With praise to Allah, peace and blessing to the Prophet!

The second group is right that the dispute between the Deobandis and Barlewis is not confined to secondary issues rather it is in fundamentals and in beliefs as well. The first group is not right in its thinking that the two parties have only secondary differences, both are Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama'ah, Hanafi and adhere to the theological schools of the Ashayirah and Maturidiyyah and follow the right path in Tasawwuf; since the Barelwis have added innovations in the beliefs of the Ahl al-Sunnah and have incorporated many issues in religion which eventually have no base in the Hanafi Fiqh. For example, they have introduced four principal issues in beliefs:

(1) the issue of nur o bashar

(2) the issue of kuli (complete) ilm al-ghayb

(3) the issue of hazir and nazir,

(4) the issue of mukhtar-i-kul.

While, in subsidiary matters, they have innovated calling to ghayr Allah [istighathah], prostration to graves, performing tawaf of graves, making vow for ghayr Allah, presenting offerings to graves, milad, taziyah and hundreds of other things. These are clearly bid'aat (innovations). In tasawwuf also, they have mixed many un-Islamic elements like qawwali, wajd and sama' etc. The argument of the first group that the hard stand of Deobandi 'ulama was temporary and impermanent is also untrue, rather the Deobandiyat originally is holding fast to Sunnah and dissociating oneself from bid'ah. The elders of Deoband have always practiced on the verse: "Now, proclaim what you are commanded to", they never compromised in matters of religion, but they have always avoided confrontation and condemning others with kufr, and have always tried to improve situation with politeness and wisdom. So, their followers should adopt the same way today also.

The treatise 'Faisala Haft Mas'alah' was written before the Deobandi maslak took its final shape, so making it a base is not right. As far as the statements of Hadhrat Shaykh Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri (may Allah have mercy on him) are concerned, we are unaware of them. It is not lawful to attend the meetings of the Barelwis in milad, urs etc though with the intention of compromise which is prohibited by the verse: " They wish that you become flexible (in your faith), so that they should become flexible (in their hostile attitude.)" as well it was indicated in the verse: "For you is your faith, and for me, my faith".

Hadhrat Thanwi (may Allah have mercy upon him) wrote in Imdad al-Fatwa 5:302: "The evils of bid'aat and innovations should not be overlooked", while the question and answer mentioned in 4:380 imply that those who attend urs and other bid'aat or those who have unnecessary regards towards them, conform to the hadith: "whoever has a regard for a person of bid'ah as if he helps in destroying Islam." As far as the matter of some bid'aat being lawful is concerned, it means that those matters are lawful as such e.g. remembering the holy birth of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) but it falls in bid'ah category and becomes unlawful if performed with certain conditions and observances.

As for the picture of na'layn sharifayn, it is baseless. Taking blessing from them, kissing them and putting them over head has no base. Hadhrat Thanwi has retracted his treatise 'Nail al-Shifa bi Na'l al-Mustafa' in Imdad al-Fatawa 4:378.

And Allah knows best and His knowledge is most perfect and solid.

By: Mufti Saeed Ahmad Palanpuri

Dar al-Ulum Deoband 23/11/1417 H

Verified as correct by:

Mufti Nizam al-Din, Dar al-Ulum Deoband Mufti Zafir al-Din, Dar al-Ulum Deoband

25/11/1417 H

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2010 22:34

Quote:

sister-in-islam
MY reasons regarding barelvi is because i come from a hard core barelvi aka sunni family,all and everyone of my relatives practice millad and believe in the prophet being noor,i dont follow their aqeedah,that is why they call me Wahhabi.

Allaho Akbar!..well be stead fast sister-in- islam Allah will certainly reward you..and you are not of a wahabi sect inshallah..Inshallah you will be with the Main body of Muslims who will enter Janah.

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 8th March 2010 09:20

It cant have been easy, I applaude your stand sister in islam! Masha Allah! may Allah guide us and keep us staedfast on the path of Haqq, aameen. The way i see it if you cant change even one member of your family at least Insha Allah your children and those to come will be guided.

Jazakallah shining light for the above info, its what i was i was looking for

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 8th March 2010 09:44

Sister you cant imagine,i am married to a barelvi,even though he dont practice islam,but his aqeeda is with their aqeedah,he dont believe in the graves and stuff but he believes in the millad,he dont believe that the prophet is hazir or nazir but he believes his noor,its quite hard when your own husband is calling you Wahhabi,and makes fun out of you,when he points the finger your brainwashed by Wahhabi..Because i am from a barelvi family and the whole relatives are the same,and so was i,until i started studying Islam 6 years ago, and practicing my religion,the only dua on my lips was to Allah.ya Allah guide me on the path you sent through our prophet (saw)

i studied books and CD'S of all sects,it was a struggle i was scared in case i get taken in the wrong sect,which one is the right one..my dua was from the very depth of my soul and heart..and Allahumdolila he answered my prays..now my aqeeda is with Alh sunna wal jamah..i work on dawah site inviting none muslims to islam,just today i received a message from my admin,saying that a none muslim took her shahaada becuse she mentioned my name and said she helped me in my search,what more can i ask for? Allahumdolila i am just a sinful slave,its his mercy that is bigger them my sins.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 8th March 2010 10:22

i know a few such sisters who i teach..they are called "wahhabis" in a deragotary manner but i believe Allah has chosen them and you to guide others... Insha Allah may He guide your husband and your family to the correct aqeedah. This is our jihaad, to remain patient and steadfast and rely on Him Who guides and safeguards

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