Fajr time??

#1 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2007 09:50

Slmz w w

Can someone please let me know what the fajr starting (not jamaat) times are at the following masjids:-

Madina Masjid Clapton

Masjid Umer Walthamstow

Noorul Islam Leyton

Main Upton Lane Masjid

Plashet Grove Masjid

and any other main masjid in North or East London.

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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2007 10:55

Masjid-e-Umer Walthamstow Salah timetable: www.masjideumer.org.uk/

Noorul Islam Leyton Salah timetable: www.noorulislam.co.uk/

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 18th June 2007 11:56

Potential problems soon.

Stamford Hill and Walthamstow have similar Fajr starting times such as 2:45ish whereas just few mins away Clapton and Noorul Islam in Leyton have there's about 1:15ish. Which means in a year or 2 (when Ramadhan comes in to July/August) one person on one road (i.e. Reighton Road where some go to Stamfod Hill and some to Clapton) who normally goes Stamford Hill will still be eating his Sehri and his next door neighbour on the same road but who goes Clapton would have started his fast already as his time for Sehri would have past????

Not to mentioned Tarawi Salaat that would finish around 12:15ish (as Esha jamaat would be around 10:45ish) in both Clapton and Stamford Hill but the Clapton musallee's would then more or less straight after Tarawi have their sehri and pray fajr jamat around 1:30ish where the Stamford Hill Musalle's would have to wait a couple hours or so for sehri end time around 2:45ish then pray fajr at 3ish??

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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 21:06

Just what I'm looking into.

How ironic too, I used to live on that street.

I've just downloaded a nee app so that I can get a more accurate time for Fajar Salah. Since my local Masjid don't follow the 18 degree rule I kind of feel alone like many others.

Question, on these apps, who is the most accurate to follow. We have choices like Ummul Qura Makkah, university of Pakistan Karachi, worl Muslim league USA, etc etc.

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 21:43

"abu mohammed" wrote:

Just what I'm looking into. How ironic too, I used to live on that street. I've just downloaded a nee app so that I can get a more accurate time for Fajar Salah. Since my local Masjid don't follow the 18 degree rule I kind of feel alone like many others. Question, on these apps, who is the most accurate to follow. We have choices like Ummul Qura Makkah, university of Pakistan Karachi, worl Muslim league USA, etc etc.

W-Salam,

Use astro.ukho.gov.uk/surfbin/first.cgi

Use Astronomical twilight (University of Karachi)

From 23MAY-19JULY, you shouldn't get any Fajar times....

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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 22:01

Jazakallahu khair.

It's amazing that we have Masajid next to each other of the same school of thought and same Darul Uloom, yet they differ so much.

As brother basim said, there is no unity.

I've been told not to discuss this with a particular masjid as it may cause fitnah.

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 22:17

"abu mohammed" wrote:

brother basim

lol - giv him my salaams ;-)

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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 23:11

"abu mohammed" wrote:

I've been told not to discuss this with a particular masjid as it may cause fitnah.

To me, the real Fitnah is in not discussing it with the Masjid

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 23:44

even sadder example below.

A Surti masjid (Masjid Omar) and a Baruchi masjid (Masjid Zakaria) outside Dewsbury Markaz. both suhoor's 2 hours difference and both literally a few mins walking distance apart from each other ....

masjideumar.co.uk/files/2012-Timetable.pdf
www.masjidzakaria.org.uk/salaat/

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 5th July 2012 23:52

Can anyone tell me the reasons for this, or is it the usual Wifaq and hizbul ulama business.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2012 20:01

Well... I think it may be a difference between the akabir.

Adab

An individual inquired what was the reason that fajr adhan was delayed till approximately fifteen minutes after the appearance of astronomical twilight (end of sehri) in Darul Uloom Karachi's mosque.

Sayyidi wa sanadi Shaikh Mufti Mohammad Taqi Usmani (Allah preserve him) replied,

'Our respected teacher and past chief mufti at Darul Uloom Karachi Mufti Rasheed Ahmad (Allah have mercy on him) considered fajr timing to start when sun was 15 degrees below the horizon. However, the authentic ruling is that it starts when it is 18 degrees below and praying after that is permissible. It is only in respect of him that the adhan is said at the this later timings.'

Ramadan 1432/August 2011

Mount Washington, NH

ashrafiya . com

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2012 20:09

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh

We appreciate you contacting our institute to resolve the issue which you have stated. Since this issue is regarding Canada, the ideal thing would be to contact the Ulama of Canada and follow their opinion. However, we will state our research before you.

Differences regarding the commencing time of Isha Salah

1. Isha time sets in with the disappearing of al-Shafaq al-Abyadh (whiteness in the sky). This is the view adopted by Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه.

2. Isha times sets in with the disappearing of al-Shafaq al-Ahmar (redness in the sky). This is the view adopted by Sahibain (the two students of Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه; Imam Abu Yusuf رضي الله عنه and Imam Muhammad رضي الله عنه), Imam al-Shaf'ee رضي الله عنه, Imam Malik رضي الله عنه and Imam Ahmed رضي الله عنه. This is also one narration of Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه.

(Badai al-Sanai 1:320 Dar al-Kitab)

The difference between the two Shafaqs.

The difference between al-Shafaq al-Abyadh and al-Shafaq al-Ahmar is of 3 degrees.

(Rad al_Muhtar 1:361 H.M. Saeed Company)

Fatawa pertaining to the commencing of Isha time.

Amongst our Ulama there have been two views regarding the commencing time for Isha Salah.

1. Mufti Muhammed Shaf'ee رضي الله عنه, Maulana Yusuf Benori رضي الله عنه, and majority of the Ulema of the Indian Subcontinent are of the view that al-Shafaq al-Ahmar disappears when the sun is 15 degrees below the horizon and al-Shafaq al-Abyadh disappears when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon. They have conducted months of research checking the times to when the two Shafaqs disappear. After their research they came to following conclusion.

2. Mufti Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi رضي الله عنه concluded that al-Shafaq al-Ahmar disappears on the sun being 12 degrees below the horizon and al-Shafaq al-Abyadh disappears on the sun being 15 degrees below the horizon. He has also done an extended research which can be found in Ahsan Al-Fatwa v. 2 p. 157. (Mufti Shaf'ee رضي الله عنه and Maulana Yusuf رضي الله عنه were also of this view but after continuing their research they retracted from this view.)

Since most of the Ulama take Mufti Shaf'ee's رضي الله عنه view and accept his fatwa, it will be cautious for the people in your community to also adopt this fatwa.

As stated before that there are differences of opinion between Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه and his two students Imam Abu Yusuf رضي الله عنه and Imam Muhammad رضي الله عنه regarding the commencing time for Isha Salah and the disappearing of the redness or the whiteness in the sky.

Many jurists have stated that the view of Imam Abu Yusuf رضي الله عنه and Imam Muhammed رضي الله عنه is the view upon which Fatwa is given. From amongst them are:

* Allamah Siraj al-Deen Ibn Nujaim in al-Nahr al-Fa'iq
* Mulla Ali Qari in Fath Baab al-'Inayah
* Allamah Qahastani in Jam'e al-Rumooz
* Alamah Shurabulali in Mara'iq al-Falah
* Mulla Khusar in Durrar al-Ahkam

Many Jurists have refuted this and have stated that the fatwa is on Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه view. From amongst them are:

* Allamah Ibn Humam in Fath al-Qadir
* Allamah Qasim ibn al-Qutlubuga in al-Tasheeh wa al-Tarjeeh ala Muktasar al-Qudoori
* Allamah Zain al-Deen Ibn Nujaim in al-Barh al-Ra'iq
* Allamah Fakr al-Deen al-Zaila'ee in Tabyeen al-Haqa'iq
* Allamah Tahtawi in his Hashiya on Dar al-Muktar as well as in his Hashiya on Mara'iq al-Falah

To practice on the view of Imam Abu Hanifa رضي الله عنه is safer since everyone unanimously agree upon the permissibility of Isha after the whiteness in the sky has disappeared. Also according to the principle of Fiqh, in normal circumstances fatwa should be giving on Imam Abu Hanifa's view (see Hashiya of Tahtawi on Dar al-Muktar).

However, in some parts of North America, the whiteness in the sky remains till late in the night, e.g. around 11 o' clock in the summer days. It becomes very difficult for normal working people to stay up so late for Isha and then wake up early for Fajr and work. For these reason it will be permissible to act upon the view of Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad (the sun being 15 degrees below the horizon).

But this should only be done in the days of summer. In winter there is no real difficultly. Isha should be read on its normal 18 degree time as is the view of Imam Abu Hanafi.

(Fatawa Uthmani of Mufti Taqi Utamani v. 1 p. 390)
(Nawadir al-Faqh of Mufti Rafi Uthmani v.1 p. 218)

And Allah knows best

Wassalam

Ml. Ehzaz Ajmeri,
Student Darul Iftaa

Checked and Approved by:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah

askimam. org

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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 6th July 2012 20:23

Very interesting, Jazakallahu khair.

We are in a similar situation to those in America, late Isha and early Fajar.

Conclusion would be to stick to Imam Abu Hanifas verdict of 18 degrees when it comes to fasting, at least there will be no doubt.

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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 7th July 2012 01:38

This site is excellent for pin point location and timing.

prayercalc.com/day

Try it. You can keep your fast (sehri) with a clear mind and eased heart. InshaAllah.

Jazakallahu khair brother for sending me the link in the first place where I found this.

would it be possible the add this link to the app in a similar way the qiblah app works on Muftisays?

Mufti Taqi Usmani makes a brilliant point about being safe in Ramadhan and keeping the fast at 18 degrees, there is no threat of eating into your fast and at other times, one may observe the 15 degree rule as the time for Fajar would've started anyway. In this way, both rules are fulfilled and there will be no cause of error.

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 7th July 2012 12:16

In the prayer calc above, be sure to put BST in the time zone since we are +1 hour.

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Fajr time??

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