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Pronunciation of ض?

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abu mohammed, Taalibah, sipraomer
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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 00:41
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 13:54
sipraomer wrote:
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He is from Riyadh, I think. Again, the fact that he is Arab or that Arabs pray behind him is of absolutely no consequence as the accents and speech of current day Arabs is not a proof.

But, actually, in this recording of the same Shaykh: soundcloud.com/user574954371/9-1435 the second ض in faatihah sounds correct, although the echo effect makes it difficult to tell. Definitely, he is at least attempting to read it from the correct makhraj as opposed to the majority who are just blatantly reading it as a full-mouth د.

What you should listen to is him reciting one of the places where ض and ظ come next to each other, then it will become very clear. For example in surah inshiraah: انقض ظهرك.

EDIT: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jLxxVB8vLI
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 14:03
sipraomer wrote:
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The 'alim who mentioned to you about ikhtilaf in ض either misunderstood himself or maybe there was a misunderstanding in conveying it to you.

For example, in at tamheed, imam jazari says:
Quote:
فإن ألسنة الناس فيه مختلفة وقل من يحسنه


It doesn't mean there's a difference of opinion in how it SHOULD be recited; rather people of different backgrounds have different difficulties in pronouncing it so they end up making different mistakes and reading it as the multiple different ways I mentioned earlier. But the correct method is only one- there is no ikhtilaf in the makhraj or sifaat of this letter. And any person who reads it with that makhraj and those sifaat the letter will be the same one, just as is the case with all the other letters.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 16:03
I have read a research paper from Dr Jonathan brown on the different acceptable pronunciations of the letter duad. Should be easy to find on google.
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 18:13
meelash wrote:
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What if we assume that he knows both of the ways and both ways are correct...? Is it a possibility?
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 19th February 2019 18:17
meelash wrote:
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Are you an alim or have you directly asked from a reliable specialist of Qirat who teaches in a madrassah with 10+ years of experience and great mutaliah? Are you sure that there is no sanad for zhawd? Are you dead sure about what you are talking?
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 20th February 2019 14:13
A very Senior Qari and Alim met me today and he is from Saudia Arabia and is currently visiting Pakistan for a wedding. He has done my islah.

Therefore I retract from every word spoken in this thread. Please forgive me for my ignorance.
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 20th February 2019 14:30
Concerned wrote:
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This is from that paper (www.academia.edu/3745721/New_Data_on_the_Delateralization...):
Quote:
Although thegrapheme ∂ad has come to represent a voiced emphatic dental plo-sive (phonemic symbol /∂/) in Modern Standard Arabic (MSA), it originally consisted of a voiced fricative lateral, usually represented as/∂/.2
This was the archaic ∂ad described by Sibawayhi (d.c . 180/796)and later Muslim philologists (and that survives in Qur’an readings in Turkey, an issue which deserves further research).


There is also this paper on the subject: jes.ksu.edu.sa/sites/jes.ksu.edu.sa/files/attach/bhth_slm...

But you have to realize that these papers are absolutely not discussing "acceptable pronunciations of the letter duad" from the perspective of tajweed, that is, ensuring that the Qur'an is recited as it was revealed. These academic papers are researching observable pronunciations as they exist (separate from the question of whether they are "correct" or not). So we should not be confused.

In the midst of looking up this paper, I found this very good twitter thread that summarizes the issue from the linguistics perspective exactly: twitter.com/PhDniX/status/1086975081505538049
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 20th February 2019 15:11
meelash wrote:
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Ok
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2019 22:55
mobile.twitter.com/theZaadfather/status/1194496179968462848

That is an interesting thread on this discussion. There is also a part 2 and part 3 .

One argument used is that classical Ulama allowed the pronunciation of ظ sound instead of ض in al Faitha for those who can not pronounce ض correclty. This was due to the similarity in pronunciation of those two letters.
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 20th November 2019 23:13
Sheikh Suhaib Saeed also posted this image on one of the threads.
EJcehd7XsAc0got.jpeg
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2020 03:48
I probably don't have much business posting here, as I don't speak any Arabic.

But are we truly so hung up over the pronunciation of a syllable?
Pages of disagreement over it?

Surely we're not discussing it as heresy or something critical, so what is it's importance in the great scheme of things?
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2020 08:15
Respected brother in Islam, I dont blame you for asking this question after witnessing us on MS (though Alhamdulillah we always all make up) however as far as recitaion of the Qur'an is concerned, a single mispronounced letter can change the meanings and regarding the letter Daad there are differences of opinion and hence the lenghty discussion with some trying to learn the correct way and others trying to pass on what they've learnt...something I often say to my dear revert sisters is where differences of opinion among Scholars are concerned, follow what is easy and what feels right as long as you are following a reliable Scholar...no need for arguments or disagreements at our level. Insha-allah this is of help
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2020 11:49
Obviously this wouldn't be a topic that a new Muslim would have to worry about. But it is Important as it has to do with the correct recitation of Allah's word, the Quran and how its recitation was preserved and passed down to us.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 4th February 2020 12:07

In Need of Teaching wrote:
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To pronounce each letter is in the Qu'raan:

Loading Qur'aan Verse

US (English) accent is better suited to learn the Qur'aan then any other English accent so you are already ahead of the game. All it takes is to say things in a certain way and you get good at it in no time, consider the Spanish name:

  1. Martinez (pronunced hard in English)
  2. Its actually MAARTÍNAIZ (in Spanish) ...Just make the "t" as light as possible and pronounce phonetically

The problem many teachers have is they try to teach "Tajweed" the weird way and confuse and complicate things

Rule Number 1 of Teaching: Teach people from their perspective, e.g.:

  1. Rahma: Pronounce the "R" in standard American accent i.e. Racing Car instead of British Accent
  2. Dhalika: "Start" by saying "Thank You" in an American accent and then improve
  3. Wash-Shamsu: She sells sea-shells at the sea shore, say it in America accent and you got it.

etc. etc. etc.

They do the same in drama classes if you have ever done acting...

Then the lengthening of each letter is taught on how you work with Octaves on a Piano


Tajweed should be FUN and not TAXING, kids and adults love it when taught with phonetics and technique and not made to memorise thousands of rules.

The way we learn (Tajweed) in America is very different to how British do it. The British teach abstract rules and then practise while in America we mimic sounds.

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