Truth About Professional Amils - Mufti Tariq Masood (URDU)

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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 16:56

Jinn wrote:

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Jazakallah and apologies for the trouble Dr76.

I have heard the talk and read the transcript. Yet I still see the other side :)

Mufti Saab himself has given Taweez as mentioned in the intro, but the point of the lecture was to highlight what he called "do number" (fakes, intentionally or unintentionally (deluded)) They maybe Ahlullah, but at the same time they can be deluded - just like many sincere people who follow a particular school of thought because of their delusion as well as the deluded belief of their Ahlullah and so on. So, one can be deluded, yet be the most pious person on earth.

I can point out deluded (pagal) TJ's and I can point out Pagal Jihadi's (from the news). I can point out pagal Ulama who have even been awarded "comedy awards" here for there delusional belief, but this PAGALPAN is DELUSION and in some cases LUNACY too :) depends on the context and person.

Mufti Saab has categorized ALL those Pagal ones who are the FAKES in his lecture and not those who go by Quran and Sunnah as part of the same LOONIES.

If heard from a neutral perspective and a clear conscience, one may eventually see the point.

THERE IS TRUTH IN IT AND IN THE CURE, BUT USE QURAN AND SUNNAH FOR TREATMENT, NOT BY SOME DELUSIONAL AHLULLAH

That's what I understood from the talk :)

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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 17:10

A repeat post (old) but I can see why certain brothers have a dislike for Mufti Menk

Magician, Jinn & Black Magic Exposed! by Mufti Menk

Halalified YT Audio

A longer version (different talk)

Halalified YT Audio

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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 17:19

Jinn wrote:

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Found this: But then again there are certain narrations that our Ulama quote and they get knocked off as weak and fabricated. so from a Salafi point of view, here is the "weak" Hadith

Praise be to Allah
Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

It was narrated to us via Ibn Luhay‘ah from Qays ibn al-Hajjaj from someone who told him: When Egypt was conquered, its people came to ‘Amr ibn al-‘As (may Allah be pleased with him) and said to him: O Ameer, this Nile of ours is used to something and cannot flow unless it is done. He said: What is that? They said: On the twelfth night of this month, we take a young girl from her parents, and we placate her parents, then we dress her in jewellery and the finest garments there can be, then we throw her into this Nile.

‘Amr (may Allah be pleased with him) said to them: This is something that cannot happen in Islam; Islam erases that which came before it (of bad customs).

So they stayed for a while, during which the Nile did not flow at all, neither a little nor a lot, until they thought of leaving. Then ‘Amr (may Allah be pleased with him) wrote to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him), telling him about this. He wrote to him, saying: You did the right thing. I am sending you a piece of paper with my letter; throw it into the Nile.

When his letter came, ‘Amr (may Allah be pleased with him) took the piece of paper on which was written:

“From the slave of Allah ‘Umar, Ameer al-Mumineen, to the Nile of the people of Egypt.

To proceed: If you only flow on your own initiative, then do not flow, for we have no need of you. But if you only flow on the command of Allah, the One, the Subduer, and He is the One Who causes you to flow, then we ask Allah, may He be exalted, to make you flow.”

He threw the paper in the Nile and by Saturday morning, Allah had caused the Nile to flow (to a depth or width of) sixteen cubits in one night, and Allah put an end to this particular custom of the people of Egypt until today.

End quote from al-Bidayah wa’n-Nihayah, 7/114-115

Similar reports were also narrated by Ibn ‘Abd al-Hakam in Futooh Misr, p. 165; al-Lalkai in Sharh I‘tiqad Ahl as-Sunnah, 6/463; Ibn ‘Asakir in Tareekh Dimashq, 44/336; Abu’sh-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah, 4/1424, via Ibn Luhay‘ah.

This is a da‘eef isnad (weak chain of narration) that is not saheeh, and this report cannot be proven with such an isnad. Ibn Luhay‘ah – whose full name was ‘Abdullah ibn Luhay‘ah ibn ‘Uqbah – is da ‘eef as he used to get mixed up, and in addition to that he is mudallis (one who narrates from someone he met something he did not hear). See at-Tahdheeb, 5/327-33; Mizan al-I‘tidaal, 2/475-484

Qays ibn al-Hajjaj is sadooq (trustworthy), from the sixth level of hadeeth narrators (tabaqah) according to al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar; they are the ones who it is not proven that they met any of the Sahabah/Companions (may Allah be pleased with them). See: Taqreeb at-Tahdheeb, 1/25

Sometimes he narrated it as a mursal (the link between the Successor and the Prophet is missing) report and sometimes he narrated it from the one who told him, but the one who told him is majhool and not known.

So the report is da‘eef (weak) and is not saheeh (sound)

If this story were true, everyone would know about it and it would be well known, and it would have been widely narrated through confirmed isnads, because it is an important and significant event, the like of which should not be ignored; rather an incident less significant than this would not be overlooked by historians and narrators.

And Allah knows best.
islamqa.info/en/178417

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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 17:23

www.albalagh.net/women/human_sacrifice.shtml

Fair Ladies for the Altar

By Khalid Baig

It happened soon after Muslims conquered Egypt in 20 A.H. A delegation of the local Copts approached the governor Umro bin al-a'as, Radi-Allahu unhu, with a pressing matter. While life in Egypt depended upon the Nile, the river itself demanded an yearly human sacrifice. To satisfy this requirement, on the 12th night of June a virgin girl was dressed as a bride then thrown into the river. Otherwise the river would drop to a trickle. His response was immediate. The river would have to do without the human sacrifice. Islam destroys all superstitions and rites of Ignorance.

Days passed. Then weeks. Then months. The river remained dry. Caught between a river that "demanded" human sacrifice, and the new rulers who would not permit it, the people prepared to migrate. Seeing this Umro bin al-a'as wrote to Khalifa Sayyidna Umar, Radi-Allahu unhu. "You did the right thing," Sayyidna Umar wrote back. "Islam does destroy all rituals of Ignorance. I am sending you a note. Drop it into the river." The note was a letter to the river. It read: "From the servant of Allah, Ameerul-Momineen Umar to the Nile of Egypt. If you were flowing of your own accord then you can stop flowing. But if it is Allah, the One, the Almighty, Who makes you flow, then we pray to Him that He should force you to start flowing again."

And so it happened, writes historian Ibn Taghri Berdi in "An-Najum uz-zahira fi akhbar muluk Misr walqahira." (Vol. 1, p. 35). Governor Umro bin al-a'as dropped the letter into the river and the next morning the Nile had started flowing at its full level. Islam had liberated the women in Egypt from the tyranny of a terrible pagan practice.

Not full article!

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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 17:26

Bro Jinn is having issue with the statement that that they were Shayateen that were stopping the flow, not with the incident.

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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 21:12

Mashallah I have to say that to take the time out to transcribe and translate must have been a mammoth of a task indeed. The forum is usually dead so you can imagine my surprise when I fired up the internet.

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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 21:20

dr76 wrote:

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That analogy is way out of proportion.

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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 21:54

dr76 wrote:

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السلام عليكم

A short summary of this brilliant talk..

1. All Taweezat should be thrown away into trash.
Listening to a few bayaans of his on the same subject his view is taweezat are "na pasandeeda" but can be given.
2. Anyone who observes chilla turns lunatic.
It does seem that he claims so. If retuble ulama and aslaaf have done so and recomended to do so then it should be confirmed from him if he believes them to be wrong or deluded.
3. All those who claim to know Amaliyat are frauds or lunatics.
No, he says that most are frauds but some are buzurgs that don't do fraud but are deluded.
4. All the books / Periodicals written on Amaliyat (spiritual treatment) are a deception.They are simply printing books.They are meant to cheat people.
Again someone should confirm from him if he believes the books written by predecessors to be a deception.
5.It is Haraam to take money from using someones skill.
When did he claim that?
6. All Ahullullah..buzurgs..pious people who pray Tahajjud into Amaliyat are Lunatics. They dont know anything.
That is total exaggeration. He says there is a limit to everything, if one starts to do zikr non stop they are bound to start seeing things.
7. He wants to drop names of Ahlullah who he thinks are Lunatics but scared of their followers.

8. All of those people who are working on Spiritual Treatment are either Frauds or Lunatics.
Yep that is the essence of what he is saying except he does say that the naik people are good but deluded. It is not their fault.
9. No Human can influence a Jinn to do their work.
Can they?
10. One should not let other people know if he has a skill. once they do that ,its cheating.
When did he say that?
11. If an Amil charges money by claiming he knows Amaliyat it is Haram, if he does not claim it is Halal.

12. One who charges for his skill does not know anything about its skill and only fooling people in the name of Spiritual Treatment.

13. Chewing tobacco, smoking cigarettes affects Ruqya, better get it done by someone who brushes teeth, uses Miswak.
Come on you gotta agree with that one.
14. Its better to get Ruqya done by someone who brushes his Teeth..Namazi..spends 1 yr in Tableegh.. those who know nothing about Amaliyat .. rather than Ahlullah.. & Those who pray Tahajjud..Buzurg..those who know Amaliyat.
He says that to you should do dam on yourself but you can go to your local imam or a buzurg who is not a professional amil to do it for you as their dam may have more effect.
15. Everyone should Abandon those who claim to know spiritual treatment and treat the problems of Jinnat, etc by themselves sitting at home.
Yep that is the essence of what he is saying.

Such a great talk indeed.. only one word to describe in a nutshell - "STUPIDITY"

A man insults Ahullullah and becomes a Fool for everyone to see. The books which he read to become an Alim (scholar) were infact written by many of such lunatics.. Iyadhu billah min zaalik

He has NO guts whatsoever to even confront the roadside Tarot reader let alone the big fraudsters of Pakistan.

He wants to call Ahlullah..those who pray Tahajjud..Pious people who do Amaliyat as Lunatics.. Yet silent on the likes of Noor Zaman whose fitnah is spreading far and wide.. destroying homes.. violating the modesty of innocent women.

He wants to take names of Ahulullah whom he thinks are Lunatics.. yet No gheerah to even hint at the Top fraudsters of Pakistan who are openly looting people's Wealth.. Modesty and Imaan..?
I am pretty sure his "ishara" was towards "fraudis" not ahlullah. Bt agian some can confirm if I am wrong. And Noor Zaman; he is type of fraudi he is highlighting.
Something is seriously wrong with this Man..

duas..

wa Assalam..
Although I agree that too much empathis is put into amils and a lot of them are a a waste of time I am yet neutral on the opinion that all amils are wrong. I have posted some questons before which I havent found an answer to. My main concern is have our predecessors done this kind of amaliyaat and if so what is his explicit opinion on that. Also do other ulama of our time hold a similar opinion to him.

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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:07

abu mohammed wrote:

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I remember hearing that bayaan several years ago.

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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:11

Jinn wrote:

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Tut Tut, you are calling those who recite Surah Falaq and Surah Nas fools!!!

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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:15

Jinn wrote:

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That is the whole point. People will only get cured by an amil if they have yakeen on his elaaj. Why don't we have this level of iman on the kalam of Allah سبحانه وتعالى!

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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:15

abu mohammed wrote:

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السلام عليكم

Bhai Abu Muhammed.. i spent about 5 hrs or more yesterday.. typing out word by word what this Mufti said.. taking care not to add any word by myself or deduct any.. then translated it without distorting any meaning or attempting to add anything from my own.. in outmost Neutrality.. what u have mentioned above is your own distorted summary.. while The Truth lies open before us..

Lets analyze the paragraph in his own words..

Post 58

" Waqa’ee nek hote hain buzurg hote hain.. Allah wale hote hain.. lekin jab ye chille karte hain na roohani ilaaj seekhne ke liye.. chalees din guzarte hain usme inka dimaaghi tawazun kharab hojata hai..

Isliye unko is dimaaghi tawazun kharab hone ki wajah se baaz aisi cheezen nazar arahi hai jo haqeeqat me hoti nahin hai.. pagal ko dekho na baith ke bate kar raha hoga.. kabhi pagal dekha hai aap logon ne..

Bhai Pagal khane chale jayen.. aap dekhen pagal baith ke yuun kar raha hoga..kisiko dant raha hoga yun kar raha hoga.. halanke uske samne koee nahin hota.. waja isliye ke usko apne dimaghi tawazun ke kharab hone ki wajah se baaz aisi cheezen nazar arahi hai jo haqeeqat me hai nahin..

Translation:

They are indeed Pious, Buzurgs, Ahlullah. But when they observe Chilla (forty days in seclusion) to learn spiritual treatment, after forty days they lose their mental balance.

So after losing their mental balance they tend to see such things which do not exist in reality.

You can see a mad man talking to himself.. have you people seen a lunatic..? brothers could visit a mental asylum..you could see a lunatic doing this.. Scolding someone.. While in reality there is none before him. Reason that his mental balance being disturbed, he sees things which aren’t there in reality. "

And the Next Post..

Post 59

" Bhai kya hogaya kis tarah se main samjhaun.. ye baat main ghol ke dimagh me utarun.. to in ruhani ilaaj walon ko khwa vo kitne hi buzurg ho.. ye buzurg ho sakte hain.. nek ho sakte hain.. Thajjud guzaar bhi hosakte hain.. Allah wale bhi hosakte hain.. baaz taweez ke paise bhi nahin lete Ruhani ilaaj se.. balke paise dete bhi nahin.. sab kuch hosakte hai.. Magar pagal saare hote hain.. ye bata doon aap ko.

Translation:

Brother, what has happened.. How shall I make you understand?. How do I stir this matter in your minds. That those who practice Ruhani Ilaaj (Amaliyat), Howsoever Buzurg they might be. They could be Buzurg, They could be Pious.. Those who pray Tahajjud. They could be Ahlullah. Some even do not take any money for spiritual treatment or may even give money. All such are possible. Yet All of them are Lunatics. iam making this clear "

Allright..now lets come to the meaning of "Pagal" as mentioned in Platts dictionary...

And The word "Deluded" which you have used..

So it clearly misses the mark by miles..

Now the Mufti says Those who have spent a chilla (40 days in seclusion) lose their Mental Balance (zehni Tawazun) and they begin to hallucinate ie, see things which arent there. So after losing their mental balance they tend to see such things which do not exist in reality.

And then he completes with "You can see a mad man talking to himself.. have you people seen a lunatic..? brothers could visit a mental asylum (Pagal Khana) ..you could see a lunatic doing this.. Scolding someone.. While in reality there is none before him. Reason that his mental balance being disturbed, he sees things which aren’t there in reality."

So by Pagal he means those people who are found in Pagal Khana.. The definition of which you can see above..

Bhai Abu Muhammed.. why defend someone who has shot off like a Loose cannon beating each and everyone with the same stick.. He has NO idea what he is talking about..

Remember.. This man has to Seriously Repent.. for he has called the Ahlullah as Lunatics which are found in Lunatic asylums.. Insulting Ahullah is not something to be taken light.. They meet a dreadful end unless they repent..

Tell this Man to repent.. before its too late..

wa Assalam..

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#118 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:23

byellow200 wrote:

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#119 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:25

abu mohammed wrote:

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What are his Credentials in Amaliyat.. and whoz next.. Zakir Naik.. AbuMusa Akkari.. Tausifur Rahman.. Meraj Rabbani..

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#120 [Permalink] Posted on 6th August 2015 22:27

abu mohammed wrote:

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I am not going to argue over deluded and lunatic but having heard a few of his bayaans on the same subject I have concluded that he does think that there are pious peole who have started amaliyaat and basically 'lost the plot'. Whether he thinks that of the predecessors whom have done amaliyaat should be confirmed. If Abdullah1 lives in Karachi it would be very kind of him to do so.

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Truth About Professional Amils - Mufti Tariq Masood (URDU)

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