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Domestic Violence and kids

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Taalibah, ummi taalib, Maria al-Qibtiyya, Arslan., Naqshband66, abu mohammed, True Life
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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 20:02
abdulquddus wrote:
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Brother, an abuser is an abuser, whether his psychological needs are met or not....and whether his emotional needs are fulfilled by pleasant words that play music to his ears. Abusers have hidden mental health issues that cannot be healed by whims and tantrums being conformed to.
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 20:10
Taalibah wrote:
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Assalamua'laikum

I agree. I am just saying, the abuse can be reduced by not triggering those retards.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 20:59
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hmm i suppose you're right but surely though its different where it is a dentist or a doctor to when it is counselling or advices in which case a practicing Muslim professional would be better.

So sad to know these and other atrocities happens amongst Muslims. I remember a young revert sister some years ago who after much suffering finally reported the abuse to the police. She had marks so they were taking pictures and one of the policewomen said to her that in our area the majority of cases of domestic violence were among Muslims. ) :

Not surprisingly i was utterly dumbfounded and in shock! I kept thinking maybe it wasnt true....maybe she said that cause the young English sister was fully covered and obviously Muslim...Allah knows best

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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 21:29

My Shaykh (HA) used to say in his Majlis:

مَنْ عَرَفَ نَفْسَهُ فَقَدْ عَرَفَ رَبَّهُ

 

This is NOT a Hadeeth and some Ulama/Mashaykh refer to it as such but t is not true. In my opinion it is a saying of Hasan Al-Basri (RA) while others have ascribed it to other Auliya of Allah. Nevertheless it is the point which I want to convey.

Whoever recognises his Nafs, recognises his Rabb.

It is a very powerful lesson of Tassawuff which today is neglected. We must recognise our habits, our traits and what triggers certain things and certain reactions. It is significantly important in this path of Tassawuff, if some of you have bad habits (and sins) you need to understand the triggers which take you closer to those sins. If some of you have difficulty in getting up for Tahajjud then you need to understand “triggers” which will enable you to worship Allah (SWT) and motivate you to do so. Why is that we have had Mashaykh who made Dhik’r for hours or engaged in recitation of the Qur’aan all night? Do you think (that physically) it is easy to sit in one position for hours for days, weeks, months of years on end? No it is uncomfortable! But what enabled these Masaykh to endure the physical hardship? What triggered them to do endure these hardships? In our SIlsilah one of the Naqshabandi-Mujaddidi Mashaykh took Bay’t and then was told to carry out Murqabah and he did this for 16 hours (or so), can you imagine that?

What motivated a person to be continuous in Muraqabah for 16 hours? So you need to know your own Nafs (your personality) and what triggers it and what motivates it (toward sin and good deeds) and once you know you need to know how to back off (from sin)! You know the sayings of Hazrat Thanwi (RA) about Tahajjud that if you can’t get up then sit and make dua and slowly train your Nafs to get up, this is dealing with your personality in a way.

A Shaykh’s job is to know his Mureeds, some of you think that I don’t know them. I know MUADH KHAN better then he knows himself! I know what ticks him, he know what makes him happy etc. etc etc. That’s my job, how can I do Islah if I didn’t know your personalities?

Our Akabir have taught us Islah, is Islah even possible without knowing what triggers you to do certain things?

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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 21:34
Tassawuff works when the Shaykh-Mureed relationship is constant and healthy. There is no Islah is passing the details of a Shaykh to a random Sister or Brother or British Tassawuff where half the Deobandees in this country are Bayt to a random Shaykh but can neither contact him or take any Islah from him but are pride to just proclaim that they are Bay't to Hazrat XYZ!
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 21:39

abu mohammed wrote:
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Sunniforum is a living example of Hazrat-worship damage!  Multiple stories and I have personally tried to discuss a specific Mureed...

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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:05
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In your opinion IF an individual was an abuser and was a mureed of a shaykh than apart from having information about him from say his wife. In your opinion the shaykh should know the mureed better than he knows himself, and would know the abusive bad behavior and characteristics of his mureed?

Without such mureeds admitting or acknowledging they have a problem, how would the shaykh be expected to know?
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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Taalibah wrote:
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How about another scenario where the husband and the wife are both "mureeds"?

What to do if the Shaykh knows both sides of the stories but sides with the wrong?
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:15
abu mohammed wrote:
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Yep I can believe that can happen....but if br.Muadh is saying that the shaykh knows his mureed/mureeda better than they know themselves, then surely the shaykh would know where the truth lies, right?
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:17

Taalibah wrote:
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Tassawuff is a RACKET which must be protected.

In UK the appointments, dealings of Hazrats is dealt by Chamchay Mureeds (for men) and Chamchi Mureedahs (for women). These men/women control access to Hazrats for laymen. If you need an appointment or discuss a Mas’ala you contact the Chamcha (or Chamchi) and then you get access. If the Chamcha/Chamchi reckons that what you want to discuss isn’t worthy of the Shaykh (HA)’s time then you get censored and you never get heard.

If the Chamcha/Chamchi promises to ring you or write back (in email etc) and you don’t get a response and if you contact the Shaykh and discuss the issue; you will get rebuffed and won’t get anywhere.

If a Chamcha/Chamchi is abusive and you approach the Shaykh, you will get it brushed off.

SF (related) there is a definite case of a Nasty Mureed and I personally waited 2 years to have the issue conveyed to the Shaykh. A normal person would get the idea that this is not welcome but I persisted and after 2+ years approached a Khaleefa and described the full case…Predictably, this Khaleefa DID NOT even say that he is Sorry about the suffering of the person he jumped staright into “Well Hazrat has a lot of Mureeds and he can’t keep track of everything which happens in his name”.

I am not stupid and fully realise that Hazrat has no knowledge of this matter. All I wanted from the Khaleefa is to say:

  1. Sorry to hear this and may Allah (SWT) make it better for all concerned
  2. I will convey to the Shaykh

Instead what I got was constant defence of Hazrat from a “Chamcha”! In the end I just said, “I will convey to Allah (SWT) on the day of judgement that I have communicated this oppression to the people concerned and those who have the power to stop it”

Shook hands and left.

abu mohammed wrote:
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If husband/wife are Bayt to same Shaykh then entire Hazrat-machine goes into PR mode on how to STOP the news from leaking out to not reflect badly on Hazrat.

Issues are triviliased, censored, people marginalised, boycotted etc.

There are cases of high profile divorces in UK which started from abuse which most people are not even aware of.

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:25
Taalibah wrote:
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If he does know the truth and is withholding it, then he will answer to Allah.

If this business of islah and so on is meant to be true, and the Shaykh can't tell the left from right, then he is either in the wrong business or is not worthy of his position.

Something is not right!
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:27
Quote:
If husband/wife are Bayt to same Shaykh then entire Hazrat-machine goes into PR mode on how to STOP the news from leaking out to not reflect badly on Hazrat.

Issues are triviliased, censored, people marginalised, boycotted etc
.

Bingo!
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:40

abu mohammed wrote:
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I don’t think that these issues are deliberate but a by-product of Hazrat-worship. Today’s Tassawuff means you MUST CONSIDER your Hazrat to be the GREATEST PERSON in the world.

  1. He is the most knowledgeable

  2. He is the most wise

  3. He is the most able

  4. He is the most intelligent

  5. He is the most able

When you ask Khala Ummi Talib & others for explanation they say, "We don't believe that at all we believe that he is the best for US”. In practical terms it’s the same thing, actually.

So (this concept) of Tassawuff actually means that people go to Hazrat for employment advice, house buying advice, car buying advice, marital advice, sex advice etc because they genuinely believe their Hazrat to be perfect. There is actually a Bayan by a Khaleefa on how he consulted his Hazrat (who lives in an entirely different country) on buying a property.

Extension of this concept means that Hazrat can do no wrong. Further extension of this means that the stereotypical bad habits of a “special” Mureed must either be hidden or explained away so they don’t reflect on the stature of a Shaykh.

The mistakes of a Shaykh in today’s Tassawuff are taught to be one’s own lack of knowledge and understanding i.e. a Mureed is discouraged from even enquiring about a “perceived mistake of a Shaykh”, how can he even enquire about a mistake when he is not sure?

When you contrast this to the teachings of Akabir of Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) an entirely different picture emerges! Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) was vehemently AGAINST advising Mureeds on their private affairs and never meddled into issue he had no knowledge of. He never claimed to be a property, car, business, job expert.

Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA) has written about a certain phenomenon in South Africa and how it developed and when you think (ponder and contrast) it’s the same symptoms and same problems and same Silsila in UK!

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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 22:57
Wait... what's the topic about again? Oh yeah, domestic abuse... k, so what to do?

Insha'Allah if we could please stick to the original topic so those of us looking into this issue can gain some insight.

Things aren't as clear cut as they may seem. The immediate impulse is to get the person help, get them out of that situation... but, where to? Help from who? There are missionaries actively trying to take people into their religion through 'help'. We are talking about people who require long-term assistance - not just get them out, and tell them to have a nice life. Also, in the case of women and girls (whether they're the ones who suffered abuse or if they are in families where young men and boys are fostered), there are added levels of complication... not as easy as one may think. Plus, many are removed from their family networks, some even removed from others in the community... who to trust? What to do?

A debate that need not be had. Insha'Allah scholars can shed light onto this issue... and where they have, insha'Allah the resources can be shared here.
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 7th December 2014 23:09
Guest-218443 wrote:
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Quote:
Wait... what's the topic about again? Oh yeah, domestic abuse... k, so what to do?

Appreciate the concerns, but solutions were being given and were helpful too, but unfortunately some of the solutions given is of greater concern because the help people are looking for may not come from what we would deem as correct! It is sad that it does come down to this type of discussion.

InshaAllah much more has been highlighted here in the last few days and sure hope people see things differently.

People, especially our lot since its us discussing this will automatically turn to their local imams or Ulama for help, but here again, the situation may arise therefore it is important that it gets highlighted.

We need alternative solutions and by discussing these matters and bringing the reality out, inshaAllah one day a mureed will give his Shaykh a wake up call, inshaAllah, one day!

But yes, I still agree with your points of getting on with the topic at hand.
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