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Imams across UK to reassure worshippers about Covid vaccines

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 09:05
abu mohammed wrote:
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Upon the advise of these imams in the tabloids and news, imagine the people had the same sort of reaction as in Norway!


Norwegian officials said 23 people had died in the country a short time after receiving their first dose of the vaccine. Of those deaths, 13 have been autopsied, with the results suggesting that common side effects may have contributed to severe reactions in frail, elderly people,
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 09:43
Quote:
Norwegian officials said 23 people had died in the country a short time after receiving their first dose of the vaccine. Of those deaths, 13 have been autopsied, with the results suggesting that common side effects may have contributed to severe reactions in frail, elderly people,


This makes the vaccine look bad. Gives ammunition to the anti vaxxers. I wonder why they didn't just do a cover up instead of reporting the facts?

Note: This is not an attack on any individual or on any individual post.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 10:19
Asaaghir wrote:
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When I said they make us sound like dumb. I meant how the article implies as if all actions in our lives are directed from the mosque pulpits. That would actually be ideal in a perfect world but this makes it sounds like we live in some parallel world cut away from the mainstream society.

The Mosques & Imams National Advisory Board has partnered up with experts and scholars, in particular the British Islamic Medical Association (BIMA) and the British
Board of Scholars & Imams (BBSI) for their expert opinions.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 11:50
Yasin wrote:
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For the 3rd time.

I am asking for credentials OR demonstration of the ability to understand the technicalities o the topic at hand. You keep skipping what I am saying again and again willfully and deliberately.

Provide as your co-conspirators put it "absolute unbreakable facts" to back your accusations.

As a result of your constant changing of topics, can we assume that you and none of your co-conspirators have any credentials to present?

Asaaghir wrote:
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More rants and moaning and nothing factual or substantial to discuss. I respect your democratic right to rant.

abu mohammed wrote:
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To an untrained eye, you have exposed a massive problem.

To anyone with basic knowledge of vaccines, two things may have happened:

  • Vaccines produce a reaction for immune system to fight an induced infection, watch www.youtube.com/watch?v=usXDbRyBk48. So a reaction in a frail and immunodeficient or immune-compromised (a patient with a less then optimal immune system) can be severe. It isn't down to the vaccine but the "reaction" i.e. Vaccine possibly, potentially did its job!
  • We don't have all the facts and it could be down to the vaccine



Vaccination continues while advising caution.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149

xs11ax wrote:
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Exactly! and Also

If the vaccination is designed to kill patients or make women sterile then why is Israel not vaccinating the hell out of the Palestinians.


Rajab wrote:
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The particular poster whom you are addressing has nothing substantive or evidence based to add to a discussion, he likes to "rant" incoherently and get down to insulting people.

His evidence is generally that "everyone on the streets of New York City" knows about it...
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 12:16
Hence my highlights on Frail and Elderly.

Knowing that they WILL develop reactions, perhaps they should not have administered the Vaccines to the already frail. Would you agree to this much?

What were they thinking? Why would they want to multiply the weakness in an already weaker human.
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 12:28
abu mohammed wrote:
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Again, you are speaking about issues which you have no knowledge of and sometimes it is better to adopt a "touch of humility" and admit your shortcomings.

Human body is not a machine and its reactions cannot be quantified. What you are confused about happens in ICU's around the world every single day, its "risk analysis"

If you ever had a loved one at a Hospital in a serious condition (and may Allah Ta'ala protect everyone around you [Ameen]) then you would know that Doctor provide treatment and inform you of the risks. A lot of times, these treatments don't work or reaction is the other way.

Doctors place COVID-19 patients on a Ventilator knowing well that many may not be able to fully breathe on their own ever and may just have partial breathing restored OR it will take a long time to recover self-breathing to its Pre-ventilator levels

I understand that you are here to promote a certain mindset but it is unfortunate and these incidents occur, it isn't a reflection on the vaccine. It is a reflection on the forum and its Administration to "Google" and report unfortunate incidents with a twist to promote a certain mindset.
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 12:37
Quote:
I am asking for credentials OR demonstration of the ability to understand the technicalities o the topic at hand.


For the 4th time.

This is the exact same thing written differently. You can try to rephrase it and change the wordings as much as you like. It won't divert the issue that you keep requesting credentials where credentials are not required.

Even in your rephrased version above you believe that in order to understand something, credentials are required. I'm sorry but you're very wrong and the more you defend yourself the worse it'll get for you no matter how much you rephrase it.
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 12:42
Yasin wrote:
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4th time:

I am asking for credentials OR demonstration of the ability to understand the technicalities o the topic at hand.

  • I understand that you need to be deliberately obtuse because you don't really you have a sound argument to make or "absolute unbreakable facts" as your co-conspirators put it on the topic.
  • For everybody else, one word highlighted in BOLD RED
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 12:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
If you ever had a loved one at a Hospital in a serious condition (and may Allah Ta'ala protect everyone around you [Ameen]) then you would know that Doctor provide treatment and inform you of the risks. A lot of times, these treatments don't work or reaction is the other way.

I agree 100%

But those who died were most probably not even ill, just old and frail, but they were injected as a preventive measure. Ironic.

Quote:
I understand that you are here to promote a certain mindset

And that is to stay safe, protect your loved ones, take precautions and place your trust in Allah. Not to dismiss the advise of the Doctors on an individual basis. Not to listen to ill educated Mufti's, rather listen to educated specialist Mufti's.

Unless you've misunderstood me.
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 13:08
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Please show me the "OR" when you asked for credentials in your very first post that I replied to with the general advice. Remember, THIS is the post that I first replied to. So taking it chronologically you will see how your error mutated from a simple error to what's happening now.

"Muadh_Khan wrote:
Please post your qualifications, ability to do real research and the "real research" in response to this post.


Where is the OR? A comma is not used for OR. You may check up the usage of comma and if it can ever mean "OR". It doesn't. Do I need to provide my credentials to demonstrate my understanding of a comma?

You tried to explain yourself in your second post by using OR:
Quote:
I asked for his credentials or to demonstrate his ability to synthesize concepts and explain in his words to put forth an argument.


How does a person demonstrate ability to understand something. No such thing exists. I already asked in my first post "what is real research?". That was your opportunity to explain how a person can demonstrate their ability but you ignored that. Asking again and again will not make the flawed request valid.

Also, making something bold red does not make something exist that wasn't there when the issue arose. So now you've created an additional problem:

1. You didn't say OR (in any colour or font weight) initially. And even if you did:
2. When you tried to justify it by changing it to OR, you created an additional problem because you can't even explain what you mean by demonstrating ability to understand or what "real research" is.

Are you ready now to accept and maybe taking your own advice:
Muadh_Khan wrote:
"Again, you are speaking about issues which you have no knowledge of and sometimes it is better to adopt a "touch of humility" and admit your shortcomings."


You can still reply if you so please with as much disrespect and labels as you please. I will not stoop to that but I will try to help you if I can.
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 13:59
Yasin wrote:
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Following advice from your co-conspirator (aka "Rant King of Muftisays) here: www.muftisays.com/forums/63-the-light-side/13637-winners-...

Example 1 (Posted on 15th January 2021 10:34):

www.muftisays.com/forums/37-news-articles/13816-imams-acr...

Its "implied"

Quote:
Please post your qualifications, ability to do real research and the "real research" in response to this post.


Example 2 (Posted on 15th January 2021 18:47):

www.muftisays.com/forums/37-news-articles/13816-imams-acr...

Since you didn't get it the first time, it is now spelled out for you.

Quote:
What is important is the ability of the person to demonstrate sufficient technical knowledge to be able to understand complex technical topics.


Example 3 (Posted on 16th January 2021 11:50 ):

www.muftisays.com/forums/37-news-articles/13816-imams-acr...

Even more dumbing down for you to understand!

Quote:
I am asking for credentials OR demonstration of the ability to understand the technicalities o the topic at hand.


Example 3 (Posted on 16th January 2021 12:42 ):

www.muftisays.com/forums/37-news-articles/13816-imams-acr...

And still trying...

Quote:
I am asking for credentials OR demonstration of the ability to understand the technicalities o the topic at hand.


Nothing substantial or factual from you to back your conspiracy theories just more mud slinging to cause confusion and chaos and distract from the topic and try to change topics.

You make rules to not debate and then break your own rules when it suits you. Anything but to discuss and debate facts to backup your conspiracy theories.

Desperate much? :)

P.S: No ability to synthesize concepts to try to frame your arguments and back incoherent conspiracy theories, instead long debate from you and your co-conspirators trying to change topics.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 15:18
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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So you will ignore my post completely and post everything under the sun that has nothing to do with what I'm asking whatsoever? Someone actually messaged me to watch how it will be "brushed under the carpet" but I didn't think you would so brazenly like this.

Am I correct to conclude that you have no response to what was actually posted?

I'll continue to try and help you and quote you to ensure you know what it's about. I'll even advise on how to reply to someone:

1. Quote their question
2. Answer the question with information related to what the question is actually about. Don't ignore the question. Answer it honestly, calmly and without anger. Answer it always as if you're explaining to a child but without condescending tones and words.

So you've neither quoted the question nor answered it and instead posted other complaints that's clearly overwhelming your mind. Try separating that hatred and really read my post and try to answer only what's there.

To demonstrate, here's my response to your last post:

You said, "Its "implied""
What's implied? The OR? Wrong again. A comma NEVER implies an OR. Please don't ever write important documents if you think a comma can imply "OR" on its own or without stating that it's a list of options. For example:

You can choose ANY 1 of item1, item2, item3, item4, item5


Only in this case the comma is an OR because the comma represents a list with the preceding stipulation. On it's own it can NEVER imply or mean "OR" - Do you still claim it was implied or do you feel you made a mistake?

You said, "your co-conspirator"
How can advice about not using logical fallacies have a co-conspirator?
Or is this the age old tactic to try and discredit the flaws I pointed out in your approach? Is it an attempt to humiliate me? Is it an attempt to discredit me as a person? Is it to question my "ability" to have an opinion? I'm sincerely sorry that it's not working on me. I don't know if it's working on anyone else. Again, I will not stoop to firing such baseless labels and continue to stay on topic about using fallacies to dismiss information.

You are welcome to provide an explanation on why you repeatedly say "your con-conspirators" as if that justifies using logical fallacies to dismiss information.

You said, "You make rules to not debate and then break your own rules when it suits you"

Yes I make the rules to not debate as well as by advisers. But this is fine, you are still correct to say I make the rules not to debate.

But you said I break the rules? Do you know what we consider to be "debating"?
Did you know that debating is a very broad word that only means 'two sides formally putting opposing arguments forward'?
Did you know that has never banned? Please provide where ALL TYPES of debates are banned then you are correct and I will stop.

Please show me in this thread where I'm debating? Please show me any public thread where I'm debating as long as you understand what debating is. I've posted nothing but statements, questions and explanations (see the commas here, they mean AND, not OR).

If you disagree, I'd like to understand why you disrespect to this extent. In fact, if these replies were to any other member they would not have been approved. But as the disrespect and accusations were against me I allowed the posts to go through so you cannot use another false accusation that it wasn't approved because it was against me. The truth is, it would never be allowed no matter who you disrespect.

Please justify yourself. This is important.
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 15:34
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 16:20
As your last reply did not address a single question except for admitting that your 1st post was "unclear" but then still justifying that "it implied" it is clear that you did not attempt to answer the post at all.

You also did not address the very important things about your accusations so your post will remain disabled and accordingly restrictions will be set for causing Fitnah, spreading misinformation on this site about members, data, other professionals that oppose your predispositions, about moderators and administration . These are the same restrictions set on other Fitnah-mongers previously.

Apologies to the thread starter and if you want I can split every post from where it turned into this but Alhamdulillah. I'm glad it did. Good has come of it inshaAllah.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 16th January 2021 19:46
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Let me rewrite your analogy again for the untrained eye.

From one king to another king lol.


Professional swimming instructor says, "we know there is a danger here, but we need to do this for your own benefit.

All swimmers, dive in the shallow end and all those that CANNOT swim, please jump into the deep end!


Your logic says that we know what can happen and the probability of loss of life is high, but because you aren't trained and qualified, you can't have an opinion or oppose the outlined method.

Everyone that will dive will sign the waiver and accepts liability of any outcome.

King of rants says, hold your horses. There are known dangers here and even though the swimmers can swim and help others to safety, there's no logic in this.

King of spin says, what's your qualifications and abilities until everyone is convinced that they should dive into the deep end.

Experts in the fields say, they are one foot in the grave already, push them more for further studies

Opposing experts say, this is going to kill people.

Experts again say, we have a debunked press release.

In the end, the opposing experts who were supposedly debunked were right all along.


People with qualifications won't listen to laypeople because they won't and can't know any better.

Shame some of the ulema do this too.

Shame I deleted all those whatsapp videos. I'd be able to prove my point.
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